General Bolt

SCW = Sure Can't Wait for CMC's release!!!

I got it from one of these documents . I cant find it again right now. DOH! The title was something about tank destroyers against KVs and T34s. Could be true could be made up. I'd assume all college thesis are based on solid research.

<font size =5>Lithuania, 24 June 1941<font> <font size =3>About half-way to Rossienie . . . the only supply route to the bridgehead was blocked by a heavy tank of the KV type . . . . an antitank battery with 50-mm guns was ordered to work its way forward and destroy the tank . . . . The first round, from about 600 yards, was a direct hit. A second and third round followed. By the time the eighth hit was scored, the Russian tank crew had discovered the position of the firing battery. Taking careful aim, they silenced the entire battery with a few 76-mm shells. . . . Since the 50-mm antitank guns had failed to pierce the 3-inch armor, it was decided that only the 88-mm flak gun with its armor-piercing shells would be effective. . . . Well camouflaged with branches and concealed by the burned-out German tanks lining the road, the gun safely reached the edge of the forest and stopped 900 yards from the tank. Just as the German crew was maneuvering the gun into position, the tank swung its turret and fired, blasting the flak gun into a ditch. Every round scored a direct hit, and the gun crew suffered heavy casualties. [The next morning, following an unsuccessful attack by combat engineers], a feint frontal attack was to be executed by a tank formation. . . while another 88-mm gun was to be brought up. . . . The German armor deployed and attacked. . . while the 88-mm gun took up a position to the rear of the [Russian] tank. The very first round was a direct hit and, as the crew tried to turn the gun to the rear, a second and third shell struck home. Mortally wounded, the tank remained motionless, but did not burn. Four more 88-mm armor-piercing shells hit their mark. The Germans closest to the tank . . . found that but two of the 88-mm shells had pierced the tank armor, the five others having made only deep dents. Eight blue marks, made by direct hits of the 50-mm antitank guns, were found. . . . No trace of the fire from the German tanks [conducting the feint] could be found. . . . Suddenly, the gun barrel started to move again, and most of the Germans scattered. Quickly, two engineers dropped hand grenades through the hole made by the hit on the lower part of the turret. A dull explosion followed, and the turret cover blew off. Inside were the mutilated bodies of the crew.1 Account from elements of the 6th Panzer Division, Army Group North, in the opening days of Operation Barbarossa.

Like any CMBB game, control of the flags definetly has impact on the out come of the battle. From that I'd assume battle results would be cumulative for the overall CMC game results. Maybe each CMBB battle result also affects thangs like leadership rating of the folks in the battle.

I once heard the Russian used 82 vice the german 81 because 81 bullets would fit in a 82 tube but 82 bullets would get stuck in 81 tubes. We can capture their bullets but they can't capture ours. Same reason for 75mm and 76mm AT guns. I never really read any research to back this up.

Hunter, Thanks for the explanation Your 'delaying' tactic sounds interesting. I think there will be a range of mechanisms that make it of dubious value in operation, but it might be worth trying Tactically speaking, your own little supporting attacks on the flanks would keep the enemy pinned, while the main attack force conducted its maneuver. [ October 21, 2005, 06:08 AM: Message edited by: General Bolt ]

The A answer to this one is: ALL OF THEM!!! Why do you think they called it "Barbarrosa to Berlin!! " Not me, doing the creating, of course. The combined community

I still have a question/concern: With CMBB reporting up to CMC during battles? Picture this: A group of troops (tank/mech mix) with an order to move east 1 CMC square at the 20 minute mark. A very small group of enemy (3 ACs) moves in from the north at the 3 minute mark. A battle is started and this tiny force is slaughtered in a few minutes. From the web site: “Once the tactical battle is finished, CMBB then sends the results back to CMC and play is continued at the Operational level.” *Is the attacking force (tanks/mech) frozen for 58 minutes from moving to the East because it was involved in a CMBB battle. If yes, this can lead to some real gamey tactics - freezing every one in the area with a few sacrificial jeeps for 60 minutes. *Will they move normally because all the action took place before the original 20-minute mark? Which means CMBB does report up to CMC in mid-battle. And what if the battle is being played out on some remote computers? *What if a single AC gets away and stays on the current map, then is the big force frozen because the battle has not reached resolution? Again gamey tactics. *What if the CMBB commander manually moves them off the map to the east, do they show up in the adjacent square in CMC or could they show up at a concurrent CMBB battle taking place next door? Bottom line - pleaze define - “Once the tactical battle is finished, CMBB then sends the results back to CMC and play is continued at the Operational level.” Does this mean: *When the battle ends in ceasefire or surrender - then the survivors go back to CMC and continue for the remainder of the current CMC turn? *The end of the currect 60 minute CMC turn. *Every time a battle is started CMC freezes action till it is completed - waiting for results. Not very realistic if something else starts real close by. *Does CMC get a minute-by-minute update from CMBB so it will know when “the tactical battle is finished”. THIS WOULD BE THE BEST ANSWER!!! The second best answer would be CMBB reports up every 5 minutes or so. CMC will wait until all the romote games report up every 5 minutes then do some CMC chunching.

Skirmishes, long term contact without attacks, slow burn. Will the troops dig in place mines set TRPs... Will it be boring version of WWI with WWII weapons? Or will the lines form up with inf companies. Then the tanks, that were held in reserve, will punch a hole in the enemy and exploitate the rear areas? This will result in CMBB battles as we all know and love today - fight to the last man meat grinders.

The old Scenario Depot used to have a map section. I'm sure GJK's Scenario Depot Phase II will have a section for maps. Hopefully he adds a section for CMC.

Try E-Bay.

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From the game site: CMC is limited to Ger/Russ only. A patch for the minors? [ October 19, 2005, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: General Bolt ]

Bump So how's it coming. You said it will take a little bit.

But can the big guy prevent the little guy from moving on?

This seems to be the case. If both sides start the OP turn in the same CMC square the battle will be 60 minutes. If one unit enters an occupied CMC suqare at 37 minutes of the OP time, then the battle will be 23 minutes. If another unit shows up in the same square at the 45 minute mark, he'll be a reinforcement for the final 15 minutes of battle. Also. it sounds like there won't be any "extra time" like a variable CMBB game. The next question: What if there are surviving units from both sides at the end of the CMBB fight? Are they allowed to CMC move? Is that movement with penalities? Is it dependent on what the outher guy does (pursue, dig in, retreat)?

I just loaded Mapping Mission. WOW. Thanks Leland. The LOS tool is awesome. I'd bet it reduces map building time by a 90%. A must for all CMBB/CMC map designers.

I think you have it right, unless the tactical level is being handled 100% AI, then TCP/IP for the operational level would be acceptable.

Here's something I posted at another site: At first I was thinking you'd get some teams forming, it can go thru the full officer/units. A general gets a Div with 3 regs. There are 3 colonels at regiment level - etc down to a Capt with a company. So you get these 54 (27 each side) or so guys together. The two generals set up the game and mail it to all the players. Really Complex - way too many folks. Then I thinks some more. 1 General talking to 9 battlion commanders sounds about right. Each Batt commander gets to break his units into the MEs as he sees fit. The general assigns areas of responsibility or attack plans. Not sure of the games mechanics at this point. The Majors move the MEs around. When the MEs meet the CMBB shooting starts. The majors then fight at the CMBB level. When the battles are done then the MEs move agian. The general then sends orders to the majors. He can ask a batt to wait in reserve, defend, run a speearhead or any of the above. From how I explained it the general might be a little bored cause the majors are doing all the real fighting. So what would need to happen on a team is there would need to be 10 simultaneous CMC wars going on. Each member of the 10 man team would be a general in one battle and a major in the other nine. Life as we know it has reached nirvana.

I've given this more thought also. From the website: Once the tactical battle is finished, CMBB then sends the results back to CMC and play is continued at the Operational level. From this statement CMC does NOT accept results from CMBB on a minute by minute basis. Therefore, all my earier wild assed guess is out the window. So my new guess is: Any guys that exit a map during a battle are in the twilight zone until the completion of the CMBB battle. This could lead to stragglers leaving one square only to find 60 minutes later there is a tank company right all around you. Hunter, can you help us out here?

[All conjecture here] What if the pursuing unit (combined tank and mobile inf) was given an order to move 2 CMC squares. In minute #5 they enter a square containing a weak inf platoon. A 55 minute battle starts. By minute 2 of the CMBB battle, they exit. They are only able to exit so quick because they were near the edge of the CMBB map. The retreating units then shown up in the next square of the CMC map. About 20 minutes later the attackers reach the second CMC square. Here I wonder if the pursing tactical commander must play CMBB "alone" for 20 minutes to reach the far edge of the map. Or if a CMBB auto surrender would occur and these units would also appear on the CMC map with orders to move to the next CMC square. [continuing conjecture] By rate of speed calculations the retreaters are in the middle of the CMBB 2km map when the attackers reach them. A 33 minutes CMBB battle begins <font size =1> (do the math 5 minute entry, 2 minute escape, 20 pursuit to the next CMC square 60-27=33). <font> <font size =3>Now a tank company for the defending side arrives in the CMC square with 15 minutes to go. They join as reinforcements. Correct?

I think this would a very acceptable method of play and is not gamey at all. I think the type of action, on the defenders part, is called retrograde in official military terms. As the attacker moved forward to re-engage, they would be gaining real estate, which is a very important part of an operation. Besides all that, from some of the screen shots, it looks like units have different CMC move rates. I'd bet a mech group should be able to overtake a pure inf group. However, a good inf commander would sacrifice a few of his men, at the rear, in a blocking actiion to hold off the attackers. This kinda battle happened all the time. The retreating troops could escape off the edge of the CMC map and then go away - kinda like Dunkirk. Or maybe at some point there could be some reinforcements for the retreaters and the counter attack could begin - kinda like the Battle of the Bulge.

[Homer Simpson voice] mmmm beeerr [Homer Simpson voice off]

Stiener, I miss understood your earlier post. The decisions would be made at the border of two groups only. Wouldn't the tactical guy that had control on the original area only. The shifted group would be "attached" to the local tactical leader. I remember reading about a US inf platoon that actually had a tank company attached to it. Moon, We understand the stacking but only 1 playr can play a CMBB right. So when the ME's are shifted from two ME commanders are in a single CMBB one guy takes over. Correct?

Do you think in a year or two BFC will link CM2X (CMSF and up) to CMCX2? I'd say it would be a strong probability. <font size=1>(now here's the best part)<font>. <font size=3> And what if CMCX2 linked to SCx3. Think about it. From squad to battalion/division to Corp/Army. Holy Mega Campaigns Batman!!! From villiage to the whole freaking war. <font> Thanking BFC in advance!!