Liam

Here's an interesting Question for you... It's 1943, my comrades in Arms have just pushed backed fascist Europe from the threshold of victory in the Ukraine and Baltic region. My countries though at this point after over nearly a 2 million dead decides to put 300 thousand lives in Corps up for slaughter as Recon for Allied forces. First of all, if you command a ship to go into a doomed ocean expanse, are they smart enough to know that say they're going into 1000X the amount of firepower they posses as transports possess none at all they're merely going to die, will they obey the command? Perhaps Russians would, they may not be able to go home and even Germans could be forced to although would Italians-US-French-and Brits dot he same? Would they walk unescorted. Bomber pilots had MGs on their planes they knew they could protect themselves to a degree. Some Trannies had mounted weapons but nothing big enough to use vs another Ship of any significance. From what I know of player morale there were plenty of suicidal men during WW2, but not even the leadership could patch the morale questions caused by the loss or destruction of entire armies. It's something almost impossible to patch with set rules. Although if there was an overall Army Morale rating, or for say surrounding units in a Army Group it could be decisive. In fact morale and experience go hand and hand. Decided Many Battles of WW2. We already are punished slightly with Experience on HQs, but perhaps we could take it a step further. Punish the entire Command, and sub-command of that field of combat. Similarly for Oceans and Skies. They already include Experience-Supply... Naturally why not the last... in hand to hand combat it always the 'true' deciding factor all the way up the line when equipment-tactics are the same

Iron Ranger: I understand your point of view. You feel that people abuse every gamey flaw to win. I found that most of my games regardless of Z-league, ladder games, or just fun games when I started people used whatever possible to beat me. I'm so out of it, lately, cause I haven't played hardcore in a few months that I walked in a few games and boom, there's a whole new group of strategies. You can't blame people for it, the fact the versatility of the game engine is being tested. If things didn't change how could you play the same game engine over and over... what's interesting for you may not be for another. The fact is the game does need an upgrade by now. It's not designed to be stretched beyond a certian point. We need new releases We want more. We want meat & Potatoes.

Rambo!!! I had to comment on this, facts are the facts. For is 'era' Johnny with Wooden and metal warriors wasn't as good as Connors: Lifetime Career Titles 1. John Scott Connors 109 2. Ivan Lendl 94 3. John MCenroe 77 Sampras last I check was the only man to equal Ken Rosewall. For Grand Slam Champions, as age and quantity. The boy is a natural in game. For an ex-tennis player myself of 17 years... Greatest Hacker at the Monterey Tennis Scene Club the only 10 year old to beat every man that walked in and I saw Ivan personally... Sampras was born on a Court Mac, was good for his era, but he was quickly outclassed by faster service, true athlete's that Lendl did to tennis, as well as the a changing era of dedication. Mac, had to make his mark at 25, when a tennis player is at his 'peak' we only last till about 30 It's sad, I was the biggest Connors fan myself. The problem with tennis since the 90s is that it's got no Heroes and is undertelevised, but in other Countries still going very strong. Liam the guy who beat all Stan Smith's buddies Clients with the biggest forehand at 86lbs in the World [ October 01, 2003, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

To add further to realism, some technology is not so difficult to upgrade, i.e. the snorkel for the u-boats, upgrade of the panzer 3-4 Turrets, and even modifications, on and on. Although say for instance the though whole upgrade of a Fighter from a 109e to a Me-262. It's not feesible. Nor say the upgraded Super U-boats planned for the end of the War. The alteration from the Panzer 3-4 to a Tiger/Panther. When the Tank would have to be sent to the scrap metal deparment and rebuilt like a Jaguar from two Bugs. Definitely certian upgrades should be fairly automatic, perhaps allowing a certian amount of time to pass through the ranks. Also a fixed cost say for upgraded certian Special units per... Even the V-1 V-2 rockets are from a very different family. Although say very few modifications were neccessary for most Surface Navies to equip themselves with new Radar or sonar capabilities. Save being in a friendly port and at least a turn? Ideas to throw out, that're already likely out there to add to realism, and throwing of monopilizing Immediate Tech Gains. Rather the more historical aspect of then using the tech gains, for instance the Germans were more advanced in most arenas aside from A-Bombs. Although they didn't have squat in production to put up against the Allies so you get it

To sum the whole subject up in a very important tennis match that would change that world. Something not that big in the United States anymore but at the time I'm sure a top10 sport. Ivan Lendl was playing John Macenroe in the Finals of the French Open. a Very coveted European Championship, hard to win, a rough surface for most American Serve & Volleyers being it's all Red Clay. Most Americans are used to Hard Courts, or some synthetic turf. Grass is usually easier to convert to. Mac had the Czech down 2 sets and was pretty much going to make his major 'mark' in history. Ivan always played seconds to the other greats and never could do it. John started talking sooooooo much dirt on poor ole Ivan<It was fairly degrading words>. BOOM!!! The whole matched turned around Ivan, won... Then when on to rule Tennis until the end of the 80s and Pete Sampras the finest Player in the History of Men's Tennis came up to dethrone him. John, who could've had a Career to be remeber from all time, got married to Tatum O'neill, tried to come back, never quite made the break after that. With a vast amount Talent at 25 breaking his career will never be remebered as 'true great'...in fact the Czech will have as big a place if not bigger than he will. [ September 28, 2003, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Oh, the real point I'm trying to make here is the fact is...It's not what you've got, but how you use what you've got... In many cases I beat players with bigger armies, navies and airforces with less of the same units. It all has to do with Operational Equipment as in the real War. During the Fall of France, the Allies had the equipment, #s, intel that an attack was comming. They just never had it in the right place at the right time. Had they, perhaps they could've delayed the Fall of France long enough to egg Russia in and the US in..Ending the War earlier

I remeber this and it's a mistake I still make a lot! As in real war... What you've got actually to deploy and what you have got in reserve is a big deal. Often as many other players do I have immense reserves often in the wrong place at the wrong time to make a difference. It's the biggest mistake I see amongst inter/beginner players. In SC, reserves really should be serving a purpose, i.e. garrisoning Russian cities, doing recon, or being quickly re-strengthened to go back to the front before you lose the edge. Often players will have 2 or 3 airfleets sitting off the front doing absolutely nothing. In some strategies where the enemy tech and such is better this is fine. Although they're gaining no experience, serving no purpose and not even doing recon. Same with your Fleets. Hordeing fleets is a common error IMHO, and Corps serve as wonderful recon ships at a 125 a pop I often will have 8 or 9 airfleets say as Germany. Although 4 will really active. It's better IMHO to have 5 or 6 that are full strength... Watch overproduction... it costs more to build a base unit than to re-strengthen a unit. Also, garrisoning all over the place is fine. Some key points are essential. Although other times the enemy will take a very bold attitude and attack-probe-amphib land. If your opponent is taking this sort of strategy safe and secure is sometimes going to hurt you. in most cases you can rapidly retake a non-essential city. Although having your units in the right place to meet a full on counter attack of your entire enemy army which is all in the right place though half the size of yours is 'key'

HOI? No way, give me a break. HOI is quite detailed beyond what SC game engine could be. Paradox is very anal about making their games fairly extreme... SC doesn't need eyecandy but it does need to be updated. Enhanced I've been playing wargames for 14 years and after about 6 months it has worn itself out. Not a bad run. Though it needs a new release for another 6 months of fun HOI is playable and doesn't require 5 manuals. Just isn't the same style game that SC is... SC has so many possibilities and they're all warn out after you play 300-400 times. You want more

JJ: Applause, exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself I miss being a kid too. I think we all play these games to relive the kid in ourselves!

JJ: I remeber the days up in the woods, the boonies 8 or 9. We'd be up there preparing ourselves for war. I remeber I was considered a good shot... and the place was filled with some significant dangers. Like the trees we'd climb twenty thirty feet high. All the creatures, brambles, leftover amunition from Army Depot Of course we loved it. Noone could take it away from us, they mowed it down once but they couldn't cut the trees down cause they protected<I'm sure being Californian Coastline> and it was the biggest protest. It's like "Hey, Teachers, leave those kids alone!" I miss the good ole days. I know they do their best but ::yawns:: the moderating is hypocritical. You either ban all unrelated subjects or none at all. If you're not interested in doing it, then quit We can pick and choose what we shall read... I'm certian most would agree

You got a problem underneath. You've got some guy talking about his g/f playing SC Belgian Girl Plays SC. You've @ Logan a guy asking for some programs.<Probably 10 other justs like it too> Then you're silencing some other guy Disorder and Rambo that has as much pertinence as any of these bloody topics. I mean if your goal is to keep the General discussion board and the SC Board distinctly a part, you're not achieving that and you're making players who've been here a long time think we're being alienated by Board Editors. If you're not getting paid, maybe you should let Jersey John have the honors<usually though not well compensated individuals don't care about going into detail about other peoples hobbies>

http://www.acepilots.com/german/fw190.html anyone interested in Fighter statictics for WW2 can check the above link, quite informative and detailed site. There were pros for for Certian planes. Certianly 109 was a great Scramble Fighters. the 190 on certian ALTs was a superior aircraft to the p-51. Overall though... the #s don't ring out that way, for whatever reason. You could almost vote on the aircraft and there is even a site to do that I'd vote P-51 Spitfire Corsair FW-190 ME109 ZEKE

Indeed the infamous German U-boat fleet may have suffocated UK supply and without Fuel or Food. The Nation would've surrendered!

Great ideas, an Editor is asking for a bit much I think. If Hubert had the time to create that he'd likely create an SC2. Though it would be a nice additive. I like the ideas about phazing back air, and constricting their rules to more traditional realistic options. Instead of a UberUnit that controls all. Also linking together technology, and making use of some the things already in incorporated in the game with some refinements. Anti-Air for instance<should reflect more than just resource protection, those flak guns were the same that were with the armies>, Radar allowing for bonuses in interception, making Subs more a pain in the butt a strategic resource killer<historically though it's uncertian what effects strategic bombing had on German Industry. It's confirmed that subs delivered a death blow to the British economy> On and on... Though the basics at least! I think another HUGE issue is to increase tank tech to compare with AT tech, thus making it possible to crush corp lines without purely Jets...

John: I have no idea how advanced the German Jets were. I knew they were flying testflights. I knew they were the first ones to split the atom. Made strides in all those areas including rocketry. Seems that Rocketry in the 1940s was not a very important weapon.. It cannot be guided nor used on a precise target. Jets are fast! A lot of the WW1 aces, who fought in bi and tri planes didn't see the value of an aircraft that probably wasn't meant to be a turnfighter, and they didn't undestand boom and zoom tactics<which the Americans used primarily aside from their P-38 Lightnings and found HUGE success with>. I've played Simulations of the Spitfire since I was little boy. The ole 109 vs the Spit was always considered two great rivals of the era. Though every bit of information I've ever come across shows that Spit out turns the 109. The spit has better arms, the spit is Faster. The spit holds it's Energy well. It's a supreme fighter above all fighters. I wouldn't consider the earlier versions of it or the Hurricane though to be 'far' superior to basic 109s. When you see the 109 it's main staple assects are it's quick climb, 20 minutes extra of Water Injected Power, and slightly more durable than the dogfighting Versions of the Spitfire. Aside from that she was too slow, poorer turner and ran out of cannons too fast. I think that what most don't realize is that The Germans had experience by the time of BOB. That was their key. Though I am a fan of the 109 as well from the Franz, Emil... it is an outdated fighter. I think it's PowerPlant is it's biggest flaw. The Rolls Royce Engine for the Spit was it's savour... The Americans used superb tactics of B&Z, with experienced pilots. The p-51d was faster than the FW190 depending on what alt and far more maunuever'd better. It held it's E longer than the FW did... It was weaker by the it's armament but it had an endless amount of MGs for Enemy aircraft. The P-47 was more idealy suited for ground strafing... and the P-38 Lightning was shockingly maunevarable and durable...had everything a good fighter would want In the end I don't see that rockets and or Jets had much of an impact on the war. Due to backwards minds

The one thing about Von Braun that gets to me is he is more guilty than other Nazi parties members<who actually recieved prison sentences due to politics instead of actual atrocities> and he got off scot free cause he was an asset for the US. I suppose it helps to be a Rocket Scientist

John: I've read a few books on the Spitfire and the 109s. Definitely worthy aircraft for their time. They showed a brit pilot stepping in and out of a Spit and a Messershmidt and he showed the obvious lack of room in the German Fighter. Was cramped! Big deal for a pilot. Room is a big deal and some well known facts First tested in combat during the Spanish Civil War, the 109 outclassed all competition until it met with the Spitfire. Fast, agile, and in later versions powerfully armed, the 109 remained in service throughout the war. Slightly slower than the Spitfire, it had better climb and could turn faster at high speed. In addition, the fuel-injected BMW in-line engine allowed it to perform well in inverted flight and under negative g-loading - conditions under which the carburated engine of the Spitfire and Hurricane tended to fail. Built under contract in Spain after the war (and ironically powered by the same Rolls-Royce Merlin engine that powered the Spitfire), 109's actually remained in military service into the 1960's. I'd say her biggest weakness was her speed and armament vs the Spitfire. depending on which MK you're speaking about. I think that Battle of Britian #s proved that. Just looking at the beautiful Streamline Spitfire gives me that feeling of SuperFighter.

John: The concept is interesting. I wonder why noone saw the use for a fighter that is much faster than prop aircraft! It was definitely worth some research! If you're the underdog, as Germany was, you definitely need something on your side. Would've taken the Brits a bit longer to get their prototype into full Service maybe not an assured victory by the BOB. Though a jet fighter along the lines of the ME-262 would've been killer on bomber formations. Dashing through them too fast to be shot at with MGs. Obviously the 109 was a real outdated fighter by the time it came up against the Spitfires and P-38s-51s. More along the lines of the Hurricane or P-40. The 190 never really took the cake.. I'm not sure how well a B&Z fighter would be at escorting Germans however... Also the logistics of preparing that puppy for full Service any time during the earyly years. However as with the V-1 2 rocket projects German ingenuity was always well respected by the Allies. Ahead of schedule

From what I remeber from the old history books; German Rocket Fighters were first, then Jet Fighters. The rocket fuel was dangerous and a bad way to die if it should come into contact with the skin, which it did in some cases. I don't think there was much support as they reach great alts and speeds but without reliability or practical use... The Jet definitely in the ME-262 changed that. Sadly as a Fighter-bomber not much use. A successor to the He-111? Not a very good choice, not a whole lot of payload. Several thousand ME-262s in early '44 or late '43 instead of Secret Weapons would've freed thousands of men. Would've prevented the Allies from opening up a front. Would've stalled the Soviet Advance and perhaps given the German's more bargaining chips with Stalin. Germany kept production #s high throughout the War till the end before they were totally crippled by dwindling pilots before dwindling aircraft. The fact is Hitler had to go, he ruined that project IMHO. Changing into a Fighter-Bomber Rockets were great terror weapons. Just like SCUDs today, but not very accurate. A waste of resources. Unless you attached a camera and remote control device on them and guided them up into a B-17s/Lancaster Fuselage. Another genius idea, possible in the 40s? Not sure

Poor Ole' Graf Spree.<first story I ever watched on this was kinda sad, she was force into an Argentine Port and smooshed by superior UK forces. I wonder why Peron a S.American would be partial to Nazis?> Seems that the British were a lot more advanced with their intelligence than other nations. i.e. USA The invasion of Poland what's already decided at the time of DOW, it happened without Soviet involvement. I have always seen that the mobilisation of Western Powers being semi-lax for France and slow for Britian to be responsible for them losing so easily at first. It's no use understanding a concept, say for instance "Blitzkrieg," If you don't have them men or material to put it to the test. War isn't always a garantuee, many nations use their losses <i.e. USSR> to learn from them and acquire the knowledge of War to win. Something the French didn't have an opportunity to do. As soon as with the Allies understood fully Blitzkrieg War<their Generals and leaders> the whole thing went downstream for the Axis Powers. They had more #s of everything and no amount of German ingenuity and pride was going to win out at that point. Short of planning for the fact the West would be shocked of this new style of warfare. Perhaps twice the airforce could be assembled with an obvious upgrade for Germany's fighter production and long range precision bombers could have been instrumental. She'd of had time to assemble some of the Baltic Sea fleet or overstoc the Army... Considering plans for Barbarossa, not a bad idea if you thought Russia was going to get involved. Germany Jumped the gun firmly, RippenTrop<sp> hehehe sounds like he handed victory to the Allies on a technical point of view. I doubt Russia would be in much better position after the Purges for anytime soon. Seeing is the first year of the war was mainly on the defensive for him. [ August 22, 2003, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Watching a show about the perfection of Radar during 1940 by the British. Aligned with the Americans they created quite a sophisticated tool for that era. The Magnatron they developed which later gave way to even the Microwave Oven was better than anything that the Axis had. Although I know both sides used Radar on ships and planes and even land based Radar. I wonder if Germany had been a bit more patient about war during the early years. Perfecting the fighters, their radar systems<understanding radar> Even just a year or two... That the Battle of Britian and the Air War would've been a much different prospect. Nothing else would've changed 'that' much. Although that was a pretty serious invention. I know that during the early years noone was planning increased mobilization. There probably would've have been any more French or British to fight a year down the road. Giving the German Navy and Airforce a valuable tool by the old fashioned was of sharing technology. Perhaps just the better understanding of this device would've been a grave difference when you're talking about 4-1 3-1 #s over Britian WW2 [ August 21, 2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Since I'm a first Generation Amerian<<sips my IceTea>> you'll definitely need me to deliver a buttwhooping to those Euros ::puts his hand in::

Rambo, You out there mate?<I've taken your place on the Rating Charts without you> I'm issueing a Challenge to you.<unless your out on business and can't meet up> Drop me a message on ICQ RE Board Administators: Not SC related the #3 and #4 discussing Ranking position and Leave Departure from Leage as being quite pertinent to board and SC content...in the most prestigious League in the game of SC. Seems to me with no knowledge of your position as a board user<unless Your someone I don't know using a different name> your a newbie Admin Soldier<and doesn't participate in the game in the aspect of the game that a large quantity of us do and shouldn't be making such judgement calls> Hubert ain't running a censored sight he's running a SIG<special interest group> Learn some manners Sir. This is the #3 currently rated SC player in the World<indisputed> [ August 10, 2003, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

with the 1:8 system 150 Liam Axis Powers and Terif of course Allied Powers Poland is crushed one turn late pushing Russian Readiness along with their tenacious Danish Allies. German U-boat taskforce in The Atlantic does some damage on Mainline British French combo cruisers and Battleships. though are sunk like clockwork Germany pushes through Lowlands before any Nation surrenders halts up and awaits Eastern Front Reinforcements... France is fairly tough, though there seems to be an endless supply of BEF corps supporting their Mainland Ally... Something is suspicious The Allies invade Spain and soon after France Falls. British and German fleets volley attacks in The N.Sea costing the British but not direly enough...Germany never claims Naval supremacy in the N.Sea and never pushes into England because of it's vast reserves of French and this will be a longterm strategic mistake... Italy Joins and germans Develop Jet1. There are hit and miss attacks in the Med, Germans have a hard time as all the British are held up in Spain until mid '41 and DOWing Portugal and Ireland has given England a hellish MPP plunder to work with. Although the Germans control the skies never quite committing to one front to put away the Royal Navy<and this is how Terif controlled Spain slow retreat with his UKRN>. The Royal Navy and British Egyptian Detachments with a HQs manage to prevent our famous leader Kliest from claiming the MiddleEast as a whole victory despite the destruction of all of UK landbased air and the capture of Alexandria and it's port... The Brits keep the Italian Navy stalled with it's prolonged control of Spain and tenacious Gibraltar Corps...Preserving much of his Navy and all 3 carriers... Though still Jet0 Germany reaches Jet2 LR F.1 and moves in position to invade the USSR. With it's great economic boosts due to recent reforms in the nation and seeing the Rise of the German Eagle she is fully prepared. A foolish mistake from the German HQ passes down orders to attempt to invade Finland which is shockingly well defended all troops from their but one corps get transported down to Yugoslavia and the front is set in stone. With Air supiority and Norway-Sweden-Spain-Portugal-Vichy in our hands we play on a few turns. Rising US Readiness, the presence Brits pounding Brest and a mere 500ish MPP range and no Axis Minors having joind<not a one> Germany finally capitulates. The Suez was never broken a key factor. I would have continued this war had I been able to break the Brits back in the Suez and taken Iraq.. Russia had Zhukov Timoshenko already within a round or two. I only had 2 level 7 HQs, Bock and Rommel<though towards the end> I felt very time pressed from the possability of Experienced British Carrier fleets and US reinforcements... I believe Terif thinks I surrendered a tad early. If it wasn't for his exactness with his operations this game could've gone either way. A man that really holds you to a Front till the End. Intrigueing game I wish I had some Screenies to show you guys [ August 10, 2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

where is our buddy Rambo? Is he outty I'll miss the ole dog