Liam

a game that is truly in the spirit of a WW2 Strategic Game... the reality is in WW2 Germany had 3 choices at Fall of France. Invade England, Invade Russia or remain neutral and defend till they were too powerful too stop. the last being likely the wise choice house rules to enforce this and do away with all trendy gamey moves

Iron: Although the US Forces as you say were so small at that time. They weren't fully mobilized and how did US Armament Output go from '41 to '42? They made a lot of the equipment that other nations used.. The fact is that there is no way in SC that they can catch up. If the US had to within 6 months what do you feel they could mobilize fully? I'll take a wild guess and say the 3rd strongest Military in the World... and that's probably underestimating them...

All this talking trash on each other and talk about cheating, oh lordy folks, no offense but can you put a can on it. I swear! Dedication, Loyalty, Honor. The backbone of a True Warrior. Follow the Warrior Code I'd like to point out to you folks a small fact, it's a game. Although beyond that it's a War between two individuals. Show a Little bit of Honour, Sportsmanship...or get lost In the end, the old adage always goes. "You get what you deserve!" Silence is Golden

Bill, Problem is they're 'expensive' to make... so maybe in a 'long' game they're effective. I should trial some bomber strategies against rooks just for fun although I wouldn't trial a bomber strategy against an advanced player? hehe, if that's an indicator of their actual real power

Easy fix for this. Edit in 2 US Bombers. 2 more US Battleships. 3-4 US Cruisers. House Rule being however that the surplus US Fleet may not be removed from US Coastal Waters unless to protect Canada/or an Invasion is planned of the USA/Similarly the Italian Navy smashes through Gibraltar and threatens UK Mainland... Also another House Rule I'd like to see implemented a limitation of transports per Support Surface ship. For in real war no Transport blindly transported itself out into the great White Oceans... Perhaps 4 per Battleship, 2 per Cruiser... Within an Area of Operation. 4-6 Operational Hexes??? Also giving the US, Patton from turn one with some IT, Heavy Bombers, Long Range bombers. As well with England. Bombers that can reach berlin... Reality Also giving the UK JET1 to start with... doing away with all Bidding... Iron would gladly like to come up with a mod that settled the true power of Each Nation..

Last few games I've been playing I have come to realize a few things. First of all "tech" is obsolete against an aggressive German Player. It costs a lot and you take a lot of risk to get Jack in return. So if I feel my enemy is investing there he's in great trouble of losing quickly...if he also wants to defend France. It's a very complicated Juggling act for the Allies that have forced out a bunch Gambits Norway/Spanish/LC and hinge their chances of victory on that. If that doesn't work the only chance they have of Victory is 'perfection' If I am playing German I have 2 possible ways of a victory. Kill England or get a Bunch of Minors and outtech and outbuild my enemy. That's it... Russia has become too much of an Axis Risk. Why fight an uphill battle where your enemy has an MPP advantage? And time on his side...The longer you give Britian time to develop Jet tech and USA to build up for a Second front anywhere the more chance you've got to lose. The fact is if the Allies abandon France too early then I will build up "sooooo" much Minor plunder/MPPs you'll never beat me in the end.. It'll be a stalemate if you're very good...and it'll be a NON-STOP corp warfare... Well it was in Hubert's design to use Jets to prevent this, but it doesn't work... Any good Ally or Axis knows how to stop Corp Warfare...Just takes "FOREVER"... Time to increase the attack strength of Tanks, or increase Hexes on the Map. The USA is "SuperWeak," in SC. It's weaker than Italy... In fact once you knock out Britian, the game is over in the Pacific and you just wait till you're the MPP leader and go at a Minor sucking job against the USSR. Which is somewhat a tedious game from there on out... Is this reality? Hmmm. Actually WW2 used the combination of Motorized/Mech Infantry, Mobile Armor mixed with Aircraft to cut through nations like Butter. We need to diversify the battlefield for Germany and Russia... France never had the opportunity to use these advantages and shouldn't... We need to cut back on the redicilious ability of every nation to be an Amphibious Fool. When I see 20 Russian Transports in 1941 weighing around the Baltic I want to laugh cause in WW2, the Germans would've thrown a few 100 captured Farmilie Bs and completely decimated them. You want Realism and History but you want playability... Although you need to diversify and sometimes increase detail. It won't neccessarily hurt the game that way to add more rules, options, units. If done correctly you can actually do the opposite... People just are afraid of the HOI syndrome. Well SC is not like HOI, it's a completely different Interface and has no possability of being one. Although against a good 1v1 SC game. It can take as long as a HOI game takes to finish an SC game so you can see my point or can't you? Lordy do I have to speak till I'm blue in the face on the subject or rather, suffering from tendenitus?sp Nuff Said Liam [ October 31, 2003, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Ranger, give France up to Early the Axis will do a Vampire Minor Job... Put too much in France and Britian is vulnerable too even teh worst Axis. I'm a so so France killer.... but anyone can perform a SeaLion after a few tries

IMO: it's far too easy for Germany to perform a Sea Lion. I haven't failed in my last 5 attempts... Also it's unrealistic the starting values of the French and Russian Militaries... the US should be higher rated than they are. More like 7-9 US Armies. 2 HQs, 2 Armors, 2 fighters, 2 Bombers... That would be an accurate start with 4-5 Battleships...That's about how history was Seeing how small the map is also makes the Fall of France that much more difficult. Though it does somewhat represent in history the narrow path the Germans had. We learn these same pathways inside and out and leave little room for exploration of new strategies.. Aside from some real ahistorical like a Gambit, or such... France's military was soooooo weak it would've been impossible to hold out like this... Plus it's so easy to do an amphibious operation without much MPP investment. Any Nation can become a Naval Threat instantly... Which is really messy... Germany and Russia both were very much Land Animals and never did much on the Seas in WW2 the Germans would've had to wait half a decade to compete with the Royal Navy... And the US Navy could've outproduced the Royal Navy in short order

Well, I didn't really beat Rambo, he conceded due to the fact of endurance. Both of us played a fairly sloppy game after deep into the A.M. Hours which really can't be helped sometimes. I started off with easily taking LC-Denmark Poland, <but a turn late with some bad luck> Rambo made a foolish move going after my Baltic fleet I held up in the Far corner of the Baltic away from his supply. Slowly attritted away the strength of some of those valuable mainline Capitol Ships..I have learned from experience if a Good Ally Wants your Fleet, it's a dead duck... Don't try and keep it... By the time I got ready to attack France I was in a weak position, most my units were not in place or HQ supported where I wanted them. I had only 4 air due to Rambo's counterattacks but 3 HQs with Rommel. Managed to get into France and walk away I think with the loss of 1 armor. But the problem was now it was pushing '41 and I was on the decline... So I was smart, I decided Sea Lion or Bust. Rambo had snuck in a Norway Invasion after occuppying Denmark. Though I had knowledge that French fleets were still held up in the Baltic so I blockaded with Air a sub I purchased at Fall of France. Costly move for Rambo, he ended rebooting with a power failure and didn't realize that he'd lost his only Brit HQ to my sub waiting for his Free French Fleet... I hit it once with the sub and followed up with my air.. Then operated over my now growing airforce to smash up all his remaining Carriers. Weakening or destroying most of them... <I sucked up Vichy in 1 turn>Knowing he was out of place and time was of the essence... I placed in 7-8 airfleets in position for Battle Britian. My Italians after pounding through Gibraltar arrived a turn late and I only had 1 German sub to support my Transports. 5 germans landed with an HQ. Foolishly I landed 1 next to London and didn't take it!!!??? Although intelligently I bottled up Norway by pounding the Port and occuppying the only escape route in Bergen. at least 2 brit armies were there...so it wasn't much pain with only 2 Brit Air to finish off Britian.. Problem was that Russian Readiness that had already moved more than 'usual' was pumping hard. He came in and smashed through the East.. I performed a last miracle in the face of about 10 defending Brit Corps. I smooshed Manchester took the Capitol right as the Americans had arrived! By the time I moved back to the Eastern Front Berlin was sieged but Rambo never went after the Balkans. Costly move... I held out to the very end in the Balkans with him in about a 2 hour slugfest of dead German and Russian bodies. The Americans not quite potent enough to do much contribution... In the end I feel that Rambo definitely had me. Patience though wasn't on his side... He DOWed Sweden, Turkey and Iraq to end it fast. I began Minor hopping. I'm not sure that I could have held out. Romania was near falling, MPP production was close to even and Russia was sacking the crap out of Minors...

Terif and Crew: Interesting, when I first started playing as a rookie. I researched AA tech to stop UK fighters from getting into my cities in Norway and France. At the time I didn't know that they were useless for units on open ground though. Which really peed me off..<that would REALLY make that research worth something> I unlike some am not a good manual reader, I tend to throw it to the side As far as AT technology. It doesn't take forever to get it.. I find that it's smart to research this for Italy and for Germany. I have in some of my games reached Level5 and it can be a deciding factor with experience/the Killing ability of that unit VS another that cannot reinforce to that sort of strength. Not only that it can be a good Anti-Bombing technique. Takes more fighters to destroy a unit. Usually for the USA it's good. Having them blow out Fighter technology and focus on that AT...so that they can land in France using British Jets and level3-4 USA LT... Really strong. If you don't stay competitive it's an easy way to smash through France. Especially if level0 Italians are guarding it.

I have never had an oilfield strike back yet. Although I never have played anyone who wasteds cash on AA tech. It's not very competitive, when you get jets. I'd rather buy another LR or Jet. AT/Tank Tech. That way I'm going to really get immediate gains. AA tech could really help if it was much cheaper like 1/3rd price. Especially for England-USA and Germany. The Nations with the type of advanced radar to have something of the sort. All occuppied cities require a garrison. Obviously More! Since occuppied oilfields as some say strike back. We know ports and cities do! Why not give them something other than a corp. A corp tends to be the garrison. 125 MPPs to garrison. Hmmmm. It supposed to be a frontfiller I purposed before do away with a superflous unit like Say the Bomber/Rocket and make Anti-aircraft-Artillery Unit. Something that would be much more usefel. Allow teh Artillery and AA to be abridged to whatever unit giving any Hex<most importantly HQs> AirProtection Kewl, Great and Wonderful

Reep & John: I have never had a Occuppying unit strike back on attacking naval fleets from a city or port hex if a corps-Army-tank was there. Oddly enough... although I know you recieve protection if you have anti-air tech... Oilfields and Mines don't strike back on the attacking aircraft... August 1, 1943. The Ploesti raid. 1600 men manned the planes. 1300 made it back alive. Now part of the damage done to the aircraft was from enemy fighters and I'm sure the rest by Anti-Air guns/tech/etc... for SC Conditions there is a gap. That is why have one and not the other? So the game has superflous detail that doesn't carry through with what would be expected. What I am pointing out, scale is irrelevent. Although it should be addressed and do you really think that scale would hurt ease of gaming John? In fact it may widen the gaps that we get from stacks of Corps and allow for more breakthroughs and cut the monotonous attrittion Warfare that more than often decides victors and losers

John: I'm sure this issues has been addressed... It's kinda odd to think that all these ports and cities are brissling with A-aircraft...Coastal guns and yet none of them can hit transport aircraft with them? Kinda makes cities and ports defenseless. I figure that Hubert may have intended the use of Corps/garrisoned naval vessels for this defense. Although if you do have them there. Automatically the occuppying unit takes up for the usual port or city defense. Which is doesn't quite fit either. A corps may only be a few thousand men. In a city of Millions how does a team of fighters find the corps and target them in particular. How come you can't decide to hit the strategic part instead of the military target? Hmmm. The option should be available... As far as Resources go.. Ploesti had plenty of AA Guns, that must mean you have to plant a whole corps over it to get the same aprox. effect? Hmmm. That particular raid was quite costly and I doubt there was a group corps guarding but rather an Anti-Aircraft Unit itself... heh great idea [ October 27, 2003, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

When there is an amphibious landing there is no extra charge for losses on hexes around cities or ports... Although when you bombard a city or Port with an airfleet/bomberfleet/or Naval vessel you run the risk of coastal batteries or anti-aircraft guns<it's well known that all AAA Artillery is quite easily leveled on Ships :)in Fact the most famous anti-aircraft gun of the War was turned into an AT weapon the 88 also and fitted to tanks... I suggest a Percentage failure rate... As well as a percentage failure rate for enemy air-subs-navalforces coastal batteries in the quantity of enemy forces on the coast. Would be realistic and right now Amphibious landing is a bit easy. Weather would be another thought but already discussed... [ October 27, 2003, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

LOL Les. I think that the Area of Operation hinders the use of Historical accuracy. What you need to do is put limitations on Transports and make amphibiouscraft as well... and add a more dynamic system of supply for the Suez. Then when transports are longer self supportive floating Armadas you will have troubles As well as craft that can endure any condition and stay at sea overloaded with millions of men for virtually years

Terif goes about it the right way. If the Allied player devotes Airfleets and HQs you've gotta judge and counter. Sometimes I'll buy an Italian HQ which isn't much use, so I stopped doing that as Italian HQs ratings aren't strong enough to take anything fast in N.Africa. The Axis Airfleets can be cumbersome to operate there... along with an HQ... it costs a lot and takes time. Sometimes the best move is to send 6-10 mixed Axis Armies and corps to move in every possible open hex so that if the Allied player doesn't operate out he's most likely going to lose a valuable Airfleet or two. If he placed a valuable HQ there and airfleets..be weary overcommitting it may be as Terif says a way for you to expend MPPs Most of the time an Allied player devotes about 2-3 corps in which case with Italian Naval bombardment and 3 Armies-3-4 corps you can easily take Suez, use it as transport launch against Alexandria... and take out the city within 5-6 turns..just enough time to transport you Italians back up to polish off Greece or move forward into Iraq before Barbarossa if you choose to do that.. I highly suggest taking Vichy before Egypt though... You don't want to have to go backwards, that will cost more than it's worth most definitely furthermore. if the Ally devotes sooooo much to Egypt Focus on England he'll quickly change his mind

loading and unloading transports errr, ahhh. that's a tedious process. Can't use Armor. It useless in Jungles Attrittion filled.. Thousands and thousands of miles of sea, useless Islands that only were strategic for use for an airbase.. Egads.. No Pac. No Pac lets all hunt down the Industrial heartland of the urals... besides you'd have to make a very detailed USA for Japan to invade eventually and you'd have to hype her up economically. Wait a minute, now that could be fun

Interesting Feedback by all!!! I know that some people feel they've been personally attacked. Whether or not these attacks were warranted fully, is what I think is in question. Even myself I have been Moderated about something that pertained more than several others subjects 4 posts below a guy was discussing Searching for a stranger he use to know on the boards, another guy actually putting out for a PBEM games earch, etc... I think that some of these people are newbies but screen through half this discussion. 1/4th of it is off topic completely not even belonging. Half of it and the Half which is the best which actually brings in NEW Customers is about history, military tactics, politics...that in some vague way may be interelated. THE FACT BEING: Whatever you say this BattleFront SC Discussion area is the most accessible for All this for People and the ease of use makes it prefered to General. People will not move at this point. If these Moderators had a Brain they'd add in right next to this one a discussion Thread to make both very accessible, one called 100% relevent to Game Mechanics...2nd one called Not So 100% relevent LOL I'm sorry if I sound bad, but I have visited this site ten thousand times plus. Those hits on their scorecard makes them look impressive. As well as many of the rest of you. If they can't respect us and our needs including the fact we purchased a product from THEM. then they need to be taught a lesson... Stop comming here accept for the BARE minimum in Paradox boards, where we discuss EU, there isn't a problem. There is soooooooo many helpful individuals that 'haven't been frightened off' newbies want to congregate there and just surf Just a warning... We are Legions of Customers and we're a Hassle but we are your Backbone. I own 15% of a Computer Program, I helped Program. I know well the feeling... You want new Customers though, they're always right. The Ten of Thousands of Hits these pages will Miss in future will only take away from the good and aide the bad. the Loss of a cult classic Iron: I will play on and off most definitely, just it takes a long time to finish a game. and I'm really immersed in Civ3/EU2 right now...waiting for BattleFront to make a new Release and spend less time moderating [ October 25, 2003, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Seems people feel alienated by Administrators. I have a few times too. They're not all that bad. We should keep the team going and we shouldn't have some much harshness. It's a game, and this interest group attracts people. Even if some things may seem off topic, sometimes Mr. Administrator the particular individual feels that you're picking on them 'personally'... Right now I don't have to come to this website and I don't have to suggest my 20-30 Wargaming friends to come here. Though I have and I would again though not if every time I write something that may seem of topic to one or two people gets booted and...the fact is that other messages are just as much off topic. I'm not saying you should go gung-ho but let the community decide what is and what is not off topic. If you do not I get the feeling Strategic Command will be losing some business... Personally I've seen this sort of thing before and over-Administration tends to kill communities. Everyone in here plays SC. I have played it for a year and I invited over 3-5 of my friends here and I'm certian some of them have come. That's 25 bucks per friend...More importantly that's hits for your site. Add that up to the 50-100 Regulars and you do the math If you can be a bit more openminded then well you'll ruin your own thing... A great thing until recently that's been treated kind like a Army Chain of Comman Situation. Personally I don't think Hubert would agree if he knew personally and had the time. Perhaps I should give the guy a phone call or someone should who knows em and let him know how ballbustee these folks really are

Personally Agreed. The Pacific is a boring Theatre. Although many advanced and new weapons were used there any future package should be SC-2.Europe or SC-2.Pacific Although it's up to the designer. Personally I think that you've got enough going on and adding more detail to the existing Theatre is fine... You would have to make an UBERgame to get both even in this current setup

I know one thing I have the most notorious loss record in the history of SC! so if any of you have been cheating in my games I'm gonna hack your computer and charge a new computer in your name to me free of my charge Bastages

I'm playing a lot of Civ3 lately as well John. Great game... the AI is no pushover! I can't manage on Godly. I usually go with Monarch and I have after a friends suggestion done away with Saving Game. Which some of us don't realize is a game fix I am such an anal about my Empire I can't stand to see something ambushed or destroyed after it's taken me 10 hours to build it! It's a very fun game and it's a shame that Civ3 isn't really MP material. I know it would be addicting plus in later years it's very easy to win. The Modern Armor strategy never fails and nothing can stop it... and knowing that hurts the game a lot so you have to enjoy it before the modern era pops in

Rambo: That really sucks if someone has gone through the trouble of programming a hack, vis versa if someone was motivated enough they can program protection

Hmmm, I have played Zapp a few times and it was quite the opposite of a cheater. He was helpful where people like Terif and Rambo withheld certian vital information about strategy. In all my games versus Terif he would play me whether laddered or whatever... If I was a better player, would have beat him at least twice by now out of 20 games. It's not the fact he's cheated it's the fact that he's better than I am and I do not need to accuse...the figures are pretty obvious on the map....blame yourself for not understanding game mechanics or strategies folks

After playing a good amount of Axis games I noticed some people have theories about Russian Readiness. It seems Random at times when you start DOWing minors. Rambo really helped me out in a game with him when he noticed my Readiness kept stealing away my Minor Expansion. The whole game balance if France falls well enough relies on your expansionism and preparation to deal with Russia. You need a few turns to operate your units in place to kill all the Russian Frontline Armies. You also can't use purely corps then to take the 4 frontline Russian Cities. I have noticed that lately Armor is invaluable for a fast Russian kill. I have pushed more than a few people into the Urals by Summer of '42 with 5-6 Axis tanks... Axis Air is for city busting and some recon. Corps are for deep penetration and protection of your mainline Tanks and Armies in the rear finishing up the job. As in all WW2 sims surrounding and killing off as much of Russia as possible is the key to victory The Readiness I've noticed changes no differently if you have 8 units on the border with Russia Though don't overdo it or underdo it. A sneaky way to do it is operate your lowest strength Axis units and Italians over there to begin with that way you get experience and manuever more quickly killing minors.. It doesn't matter if they're corps or armies... Also beware Yugoslavia...get the air in place to kill it so it doesn't degrade away from your Barbarossa and it does work both was in Hungary/Romania [ October 17, 2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]