Panzer39

I'm in for PBEM, but I want to be the Grand Admiral of the Gulf of Mexico! [ August 12, 2003, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ]

They can in surprise contacts

Well they could be "elite" because of extra training or trained to use better equipment thus the experience bonus. I think this method would keep the game simple yet offer more options. I stole the idea from Peoples General (I think) where you could buy better trained units. The experience bar gives a combat bonus that could represent the better equipment. It could be a counter to an opponent who has better tech. Example: You have level 1 jets your opponent has level 2. To counter you buy two "elite" air fleets. These cost you more money but their expertise helps off set your opponents tech advantage. Maybe put a cap on the number of elite units you can buy. Take it further by adding a new tech that adds to the experience level that new units start at. For each level let the bar go up .25 or something similar. [ August 05, 2003, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ]

How about charging more MPP for troops to show up with one bar of experience.

Fully agree

Well I would like a North Sea loop similar to the Suez. The Axis can place a ship on the Hex or hexes by Norway and have it magically transported to the other side of England. There could be a random chance that it takes damage along the way. Subs and ships could also enter the arrows on the other side to make a return trip.

Well I'd rather pay 30$ for a world wide SC2 WITH all the changes made. However, if there are enough improvements I would be happy to pay 15-20 for an "expansion" pack for SC. Especially if it included a better editor. It would still come out cheaper than most new games I buy.

HQ Manstein: German forces run into a red wall off Soviet troops extending south from Leningrad. More forces are diverted south to aid in the capture of Minsk. HQ Kliest: Slow progress is made through the marshes in the southern approach to Minsk. The Luftwaffe bombs the city in preparation for an all out attack. Model's advice to Kliest proved vital. A Soviet advance had indeed broke through the gap in the center of the German lines. The red corps had made good progress until running into a armored company. Like a bug on the canopy of a Me-109, they were crushed on impact. HQ Rommel: With his forces stretched far to thin in the South of Russia, Rommel moves his HQ reserves to the front in order to form a line west of Dnipier. Any advance would have to wait until reinforcements were brought in from Germany. France: For some reason the Italians had taken it upon themselves to continue the air battle over Britain alone. While peeved that they took the initiative without out his order (and the fact that they were now flying better planes), Goering was delighted in the results. The RAF, who had up until this point avoided battle with the Luftwaffe must have thought the Italians easy prey. As suspected the flying roman legion took a beating, however this presented the Luftwaffe with targets. Four German Airfleets and a bomber squadron took to the skies. The RAF was engaged and given a sound beating over the skies of Southern England. The Med: The Regina Marina pursued the fleeing ships of the Royal Navy back towards Egypt. A submarine flotilla was destroyed but a carrier managed to escape. Troubling reports of American warships off the coast of Portugal made further pursuit impossible. Spain: Italian forces cross into Portugal only to spot a large American fleet complete with landing ships along the coast.

I would rather the carrier and their air wing be separate.

We need a larger map to the north to allow German breakouts, otherwise there are no North Sea battles and iceland is useless

HQ Manstien: German troops move into the ruins of Riga. The Soviets burned the city on their way out leaving nothing of value. A corps is left behind to guard the empty husk as the rest of the Army group moves toward Leningrad. HQ Kleist: Model is relieved by Kleist and under new leadership army group center surrounds the city of Minsk. Before heading for his new command Model warns his replacement to keep an eye on the large gap forming in the German lines around the Pripet marshes. HQ Rommel. Once again Kiev is assaulted and after another bloody week of fighting the city falls. Fearing that his forward units might be cut off from supply, Rommel orders a halt to the river crossing in order to regroup. Channel coast: Rocket attacks are carried out on London once again, destroying what was left of the docks. The Luftwaffe is grounded because of poor weather. Spain: Mussolini rides through the streets of Madrid in conquest. Returning to Italy, a victory celebration is called for. Rome once again becomes an empire, and El Duce becomes a Ceaser. The Med: The large naval battle continues with losses mounting on both sides. Italian bombers from Sicily join in on the action sinking a Royal Navy Battleship. Italian commandos land near the Suez with the goal of closing the passage. North Sea: He was going to kill that weasel. Instead of being freed, the Scharnhorst now had a huge pillar of ice blocking its path as well. To make matters worse, the ship had been spotted by the RAF. While Luftwaffe cover was being supplied from bases in Norway, the pride of the Kriegsmarine was a sitting duck in its current situation. Langsdorff had recieved word that ice breakers were making progress but at a very slow rate. It would be days before his ship would be out of this mess. At least he would be getting rid of Himmler. A dispatch from the Fuehrer's office had come in with the order to bring the nut job back to the main land via one of the Scharnhorst's sea planes. While the Admiral would have opted to put a bullet in Himmler's head, the fact that he somehow shaped the current situation had to be taken into account.

HQ Manstien: German forces punch a hole in the Soviet lines and cross the Dvina river. Although Riga is cut off, stiff resistance is encountered during the assault on the city. German advances are halted in order to bring in the support of the heavy guns of the Kriegsmarine. HQ Model: Units from Model's army group link up with a detachment from Manstien's in order to take the city of Minsk. A Soviet corps is destroyed on the approach to the city from the North. HQ Rommel: A fierce battle erupts in the city of Kiev. House to house fighting ensues. As of now it is unclear who controls the city. Rommel disengages a smaller force to bridge the Dnieper before Soviet defenses can be made to prevent an easy crossing. The Med. A large Royal Navy task force is spotted heading through the Med. The Regina Marina is pulled back from shelling Malta in order to engage and destroy this new threat. Spain: Both Bilbao and Madrid are captured by Italian troops. While Bilbao was deserted, fierce resistance was encountered in Madrid. Although the Spanish lost most of their fighting ability they did not surrender. Berlin: The United States entering the war had been expected since the fall of France and the failure to come to terms with England. The Japanese intervention with their strike on Pearl harbor came as a surprise to Doenitz. For months Germany had been offering the former holdings of France to Japan as an incentive to join the Axis, but Japan had openly refused to go to war with the Soviets. Instead they choose to travel their own path without a real alliance. The only question now was to what threat the USA would respond to first. To Doenitz, popular opinion in the USA would certainly drive America's war effort into the Pacific.

To add a small random factor to unit limits, how about adding a tech that would raise the ceiling for the unit cap. Better yet, tie the cap limit to industrial tech. To me this would make sense because as your industry increases so would your ability to support and create new units (manpower not being counted). Industrial tech or a new tech could also be tied to repair times for ships and other units that would take longer than 2 weeks to bring up to strength (uniform turns should be apart of SC2 with weather slowing things down in Winter not artificial turns). For example a country with level two (tech name) can repair two strength points of damage to its ship in port. For land units their could be a 3x multiplier so that the same country with level 2 tech could repair 6 strength points to one of their armies. Maybe air units could get a 2x multiplier. I think this would be more realistic than the instant full strength units that pop up on the front. New ships would be purchased at the strength level of the tech that controls refits and would than be built up from there. No more new BB that took years to build in real life being constucted in two weeks. If this idea was carried over to land and air units as well, there might not be any need for unit caps since units would take longer to form. [ August 01, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ]

HQ Manstein: German forces continue their drive northward but encounter heavy Soviet resistance. An attack on Riga is put off in order to bring up reinforcements. A smaller force is diverted to take the city of Minsk. With luftwaffe support, a soviet corps is destroyed on the approach. HQ Model: Disheartened by the destruction of an entire Panzer arm and the subsequent break out of the Russian armies encircled, Model's army group takes up position south of the city. Probing attacks are made on the Kiev defenders but the city holds. HQ Rommel: Odessa falls but the Soviets fight to the last man. Such resistance was not expected and Rommel worries if it is a sign of events to come. The forces under his command push toward the Dnieper. Spain: Italian troops push deeper into Spain under the cover of their own airforce. Madrid is assaulted but little gain is made in taking the Capital. Intelligence reports that a French General has landed in Gibraltar. Channel coast: Goering goes on an art hunting expedition in Paris while the Luftwaffe readies for another bombing blitz on London. Rockets are again fired at the London Port but no success is reported. Norway: A reconascase squadron flying out of Bergen is destroyed only after they were able to report the location of what appeared to be the entire Royal Navy docked at Scapa Flow. Berlin: Events were spiraling out of control. Italy had jeopardized Axis control of Europe by invading Spain and bringing the USA closer to the conflict. Worse, Franco had been on the verge of joining the Axis. Hopefully, Mussolini knew what he could handle and would have the operation wrapped up quickly. Progress in Russia was moving forward but not as fast as originally hoped for. With the campain season half over, there was a little cause for worry. What was happening in the North Sea was anyone's guess. Doenitz had recieved a report from Raeder that was too incredible to believe. A rescue operation had been dispatched by the Kriegsmarine to break the Scharnhorst free of the ice she was entrapped in. Himmler would have a lot to answer for if he ever made it back to Berlin.

I agree. That would keep players from going over their unit limit by accident and end cheating in regards to self imposed house rules. I think it would be great if the number of each unit could be limited as well instead of just Air and ground. However I also agree with Oak that unit limits should be imposed on Axis and Allies not individual countries. If unit limits can be set in SC2 I think it would be great if they incorporated both these ideas.

HQ Manstien: German soldiers continue their push North toward Riga. The encircled Russian army is destroyed just south of the city but the Whermact is unable to cross the Dvina. HQ Model: Field Marshal Model launches a pincer attack bypassing Soviet defensive positions. His Panzer arm encircles Kiev from the north while two infantry divisions encircle the city from the South. Two Soviet corps and a equal number of armies find themselves in a Pocket. The Luftwaffe finishes off the Soviet troops encircled the previous week after they succeeded in defending against the forces of Hungry. HQ Rommel: Having crossed the Carpathians, Rommel is able unleash the full might of the forces under his control. Odessa is fully encircled. However, the Soviet defenders make a heroic stand and despite suffering 90% casualties, by German calculations, manage to hold on to the city. France: German bombs and rockets again fall on London's port, bringing its production down to zero. Goering than launches the second phase of his plan by bombing London itself. Fierce anti-aircraft fire is felt as well as interdiction by French fighters under RAF control. Having recieved his first bloody nose since the start of the war, Goering vows to level the British capital. The county formally known as France, formally known as Vichy, now just flying a white flag because someone else is sure to invade before its over: With the Germans fully occupied in Russia, Italy was free to make her own policy in the MED. With this in mind Mussolini launched operation Roman liberation, the first of a planned three invasions(the last being planned against Germany if the Soviets got the upper hand) that would restore the Roman Empire to its fully glory. Since Germany was still far to strong Spain was chosen as the target. The Regina Marina bombarded Valencia and under the cover of the air force, three Italian corps landed and took the city. Having been assigned the duty of occupying Vichy, Italian forces under Balbo were already in a good position to strike. However, they met with heavy resistance crossing the Pyrenees and did not advance far into Northern Spain. Mussolini was troubled by this but nevertheless thought it was better to make slow progress than have German "help". Norway: Having completed his quest for the Eye of Odin, Himmler had boarded the Scharnhorst in Narvik to return to Germany in response to a summons by the Fuehrer. Obviously Doenitz wished to commend him for taking the initiative in the conquest of Norway and for retrieving such a valuable artifact for the Reich. Perhaps he would be made deputy Fuehrer before setting off to Egypt. However, while loading what he recovered onto the ship, he got into a heated argument with Admiral Langsdorff over the worth of the artifacts. The debate continued after departure so in order to prove its power, Himmler had the Eye of Odin brought to him. Having gathered a small crowd on the bow of the Battlecruiser he proceeded to amuse the officers by chanting in an effort to call forth its energy. To everyone's surprise, after about fifteen minutes and the departure of more than a few on lookers, storm clouds started to gather and lightning began to flash on what before had been a fairly calm day. The Admiral, realizing that his ship did not take well to stormy seas ordered the men gathered back to their stations. However it was to late, the Scharnhorst collided with a giant wave that sent everyone on the bow tumbling to the deck and than scrambling to get inside. Himmler who had been knocked hard against the deck lost his grip on the now glowing blue eye which, caught by a strong gust of icy wind, was carried into the sea. Raeder was distressed. Not only had he lost contact with his flag ship but weird weather conditions were being reported by all the reconnaissance flights over the North Sea. Apparently the ocean was literally turning to ice up there. Any plans of a German breakout were dashed. The ocean ways north of Bergen were freezing making it to risky to send ships through the North Sea to break out into the Atlantic. Thus from the Kreigsmarine's perspective the whole Norway operation was for naught. The Scharnhorst frozen in place off the coast of Norway:

June 1942 The war to prevent Soviet aggression saw more action unfolded in the first week of June than in the entire war thus far. Prussia: Army Group Manstein was given the go ahead to cross into Soviet territory. Like in France, the main goal of the initial thrust was to encircle the enemy troops rather than engage them out right. At first, German troops crossing the Soviet border met heavy resistance. However gaps were forced open which led to the encirclement of three Russian Armies. Shore bombardments were than called in and were provided by the Kriegsmarine on a bewildered Soviet army just south of Riga. Warsaw: Field Marshal Model launched his part of the operation with the full force of the Luftwaffe at his disposal. Instead of simply encircling the enemy, his forces were able to destroy two whole armies while encircling another. By the end of the week his forces were on the march toward Kiev Romania: Rommel was not pleased with his part in the operation. The geography of the terrain his forces had to cross to reach their targets was not suitable to achieve the rapid movement needed for encirclements. Two armies under his command along with their foreign allies plowed straight into the Soviet Armies ahead of them, making little progress. However after noticing a gap created by Army group Model, Rommel was able to launch an attack with his Panzer arm that nearly cut off the city of Odessa from supply. Algiers: A Romanian force under German leadership beat the Italians in a race to capture the new capital of Vichy France. Meeting no resistance they entered the city in a victory paid for in Italian blood. Vichy surrendered to Germany three days later. Sweden: For several weeks Himmler had been in contact with Field Marshal List and persuaded him that his department gave him the authority to draft operational orders. Having convinced List that they had been approved by Doenitz himself at the Chief of Staff meeting, an invasion of Norway had been planned to coincide with the start of action in Russia. Admiral Reader had been brought into the plan at the last minute and even though he knew the operation had not been cleared by Doenitz, the benefits for the Reich and the Kriegsmarine far out weighed the consequences. Germany had lost far to many U-boats, with a base in Norway perhaps they could do some damage on Allied shipping. He agreed to provide naval support as well as a corps of German marines. While the German army was tearing through the Soviet defences, the armies of Sweden crossed into Norway and after a week's worth of fighting German marines captured the city of Oslo from the shocked Norwegian defenders. Paris: Although half his beloved Luftwaffe had been forced into service in Russia, Goering had convinced Doenitz that an air war could still be won over the skies of England. Once again Rockets were launched at London with a Bomber attack following in their wake. The port, their primary target for this operation suffered 90% loss of productivity. While fighter escort was provided, no RAF unit was dispatched to intervene. Berlin: All appeared to be going well. The Soviets, as expected had deployed their forces in an offensive posture. This had made their encirclement easier. While some adjustments would have to be made to bolster the slow progress made by Rommel, German success looked promising. While the surrender of Vichy had been expected, the surrender of Norway had come at a complete surprise to the Fuehrer. Although Doenitz knew he would have to take action against Himmler he was impressed. Not only had Norway been captured, but archeological teams were already digging up artifacts that Himmler claimed would win the war. Rome: Mussolini was red with anger. The Germans would not rob him again from a conquest. Now that they were busy freezing in Russia, his plans for the MED could be accomplished without their help and thievery.

Prussia: German forces arrived in mass from France. The Soviets obviously did not believe it was a training maneuver and mobilized as well. The Alps: Storm clouds circled over Doenitz's mountain retreat. He had just given the order to begin operation Hitler. He thought the name fitting since it was his predecessors actions that brought Germany into this dire position.

I think the ship you are really looking for is the French BB Richelieu. She was basically an up sized Dunkerque with 8 15 inch guns all mounted forward Best BB design would have been the USS Montana 70,000 tons with 12 16 inch guns. The size of the guns was workable but she most likely could not have fit through the Panama Canal. It was laid down but never finished. [ July 26, 2003, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ]

Berlin: Spring time of Doenitz Having found none of the plans put forth to him completely satisfactory, Doenitz decided to implament a little bit of each. Before daybreak, on a slightly chilly April morning, two major offensives were launched. The first was carried out by Goering over the English Channel. The Air Marshal described the scene to Doentiz as there having being so many Luftwaffe planes in the air that they blocked out the sun. Of course, it being before dawn when they took off, Doenitz was skeptical but at least his air chief was happy with the funding put into his program. In a coordinated action, rockets were once again fired at London, several of them striking the docks and causing 20% destruction. As for the Luftwaffe, they first knocked out the UK's early warning system, whose operators undoubtedly did not believe the number of contacts they were picking up to be accurate. The remainder of the air fleets proceeded to bomb the RAF runways while their planes lay in hanger. The mission was a complete success and having destroyed three of the enemy airfleets and damaging at least the same amount, the German Planes returned home with minimal losses. Having received field reports from Rommel that Italian troops were massing on their border with Vichy, Doenitz decided to beat them to the punch rather than arguing with Mussolini to stop whatever he was planning. On the same morning that Goering was tearing up the English country side, German units crossed into Vichy territory unopposed. They reached Marseilles in record time and quickly captured the city from the dedicated by short lived defense. A French cruiser in port was asked to surrender but when the captain refused, German artillery from the shore opened fire. Rome: The German's stole his conquered land in order to give it back to France, only to steal it again!? That want to be Dictator must have a cracked head thought Mussolini. However, the Vichy French had not surrendered as quickly as thier mother country and instead had moved their capital to Algiers. This could be a glorious opportunity for Italy if the French hold outs in Africa could be forced to surrender to him. Perhaps he could turn Germany's rules of conquest against them. The Regina Marina and Italian air force were redirected from bombing Malta and instead turned their might against Algeria. The city was only spared because Italian troops were slow to make their way to the landing beaches. Berlin: The recent visit from the Russian ambassador was most disturbing. With the Soviet Union's intentions made clear, there would be no preventing the war any longer. Von Manstein moved his HQ to Prussia and the German army prepared itself for what would be its greatest challenge. The season was the right time to strike, but first air power and tanks would have to be transported back from their recent successful operations in France. Before Molotov bordered a plane back for Russia, Ribbentrop gave him a promise that German expansion was over (the Vichy operation had just started) and that the armies in Poland were there on military maneuvers. Out of curiosity he asked what had befallen Hess and to his puzzlement was told that the once deputy Fuehrer was touring the vast expanses of Russia along the Siberian railroad. [ July 26, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ]

If I remember correctly, the BC's were hybrids. I would have to go look in one of my sources though.

Btw John, do you remember what WWI German class had their guns Rodney style?

Germany had some nice ships under construction at the end of WWI. The Ersatz Yorck and Mackensen class BC's could have made 28 knots and carried their 8 main guns Bismarck style. Had they survived the war they would have fell somewhere between the Bismarck and Scharhorst. You can tell the KM used the design as a spring board. With some updating they could have been a force to contend with. [ July 25, 2003, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ]

Besides AA guns the Tirpitz was protected by smoke screens Doenitz actually argued against scrapping the surface fleet (ships that did not require repair) after Raeder resigned, the reason being was that they tied down a reasonable amount of RN war ships to prevent a break out. [ July 25, 2003, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ]

Another option I was toying with is a what if scenerio where Germany did not have to scrap its fleet after WWI. This could allow for an influx of ships without having to change anything else.