SeaMonkey

Come on guys...fess up, its time. Where's that announcement? Are we gold or just a little fine tuning still going on. No rush...just wondering....an update would be appropriate...its almost ctober

3rd thread from the top "WaW announced"

Depends!

Imagine that a group of German pocket battleships and their escorts with isolated single aux. cruisers breaking into the Atlantic under various scenarios of bad weather, Luftwaffe activities, deception, etc. Couple that with an aggressive Uboat campaign pressed to the max by Admiral Raeder for a short interim catalized by intelligence intercepts of large convoys making their way to UK from USA. I know...no way they could be coordinated, like the wolfpacks were. What type of Taskforces would you put together as the RN commander to patrol the routes? Now what kind of game is SC? What if? Wonder what the commander of a BB TG would do if he were attacked by a Uboat(s). Could it be that he might detach a destroyer or two from the group to go.....gasp.....Subhunting....while the capital ships make a getaway.

Worse yet is to see them Limey Bombers HQ/AF supported and based outside Alexandria. Woe is the Axis supply coming out of Tobruk.

Well gentlemen this is exactly what I have been wishing for in a game of this scope, CFC(Custom Force Configuration). Not just for Naval units but also for land. Of course this does mean micromanagement to a certain degree, but this is where choosing a commander and name for the TF comes into play. You could also be in charge of designating the appropriate icon, or the AI would make the choice depending on the predominant type. Again, this would probably complicate the AI's participation, perhaps reducing its competency level. Eventually we could anticipate a sort of melding between the simplified features of TOAW and WiF with a choice of playing out the critical battles at a reduced operational/tactical level of maneuver breaking down the superior Commands into their components.

Just thinking of a scenario like that. Well SO you'd better be taking notes, ready with your ideas for sea areas because I'm sure we'll all be awaiting some new dynamics for SC Pacific. Still a little early but never the less a time for contemplation of the future. I've got a number of old Naval oriented board games I intend on using for reference. CaW, Harpoon and WitP should help with updated computer features.

Zmago, do not forget that you can place USA air units directly from the build Q to the other continents if the city(s) have been conquered by USA units.

Any difference? Not much at the beginning of Fall Weiss, but later??? Well you are the CEO, do you want to be different? If so, make the effort(tech applications) and it will come to pass. Assumptions can be highly inaccurate.

Hellmutt, welcome to our community. Hmmmm ....today, ...Sept.25 turns out to be your lucky day, circle it on the calendar, you have found the world of SC. Don't mind the loonies...aka Rambo and co., we occassionally get on the grass. Open ended, ha! Ever check out the modding capabilities of TOAW? Nuff sed! Swift you ask? Efficient gameturns in minutes or you can dwell, model and reload, but there will be a great variety of results. AI? Try the expert +2 level and at the sametime, bend down, stick your head between your legs and kiss your @ss goodbye. At least for a couple of months while you figure it out. After you figure it out, then you are ready for multi-player and the world of SC enters a new dimension. There are many players here that will help you assume the position that you have practiced against the AI, and thought you had mastered. Good Luck! You'll need it ....and a bunch of skill also. [ September 25, 2007, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

If USSR harbor and accompanying city is cut off then supply = 5 and efficiency = 50%. You can reinforce to 8 and upgrade as long as there is no enemy unit next adjacent to the deployment. Think about it, just because you're totally cut off doesn't mean you don't have a stockpile or that absolutely no supply efforts get through. Can you actually stop all supplies, air, sea and land? Have you as a commander forgotten how to improvise or ration what you have if cut off? Check the annals of WW2 history, think..... what is smuggling all about? Now if you want to degrade the enemy position that is surrounded....what can you do? Maybe reduce the tile's efficiency through bombing & bombardment.....sound realistic? Remember you have to degrade both the city and port and then the reinforcement cycle is drastically reduced, not to mention morale and readiness.

Some good comments, a rarity for Rambo. ZoCs: I kind of like the way they are presented currently with an additional 1 AP required to move through a tile that has 2 units exerting influence. We have 2500 sq. mi tiles and a minimum of one week elapsed time, think about that. When you possess motorization level two the opportunity to provide wide sweeping envelopments comes to fruition, as it should be. I repeat........, mobile forces are notorious for not providing an unporous border of envelopment. Larger forces with heavy assets are more suitable for that role. ie. SC Armies. History will bear this out. I would prefer that the units have the unique properties for not only realistic behavior but also to propagate the rock-paper-scissors scenario. Sorry JJR, your 4 and 5 although having some supporting evidence are too extreme. The 50% initial cost represents the surviving cadre, usually the officers and NCOs, but I'll give you that they should not appear in half the time through the build Q. Experience is about right, just don't be so indiscriminate with your good units use. Completely agree with the way operands are handled, but that will change with WaW. Obviously we are very close to WaW release and really anything we care to promote at this phase is a bit premature and subject to change. Its always good to kick around some ideas but I'm thinking that once we've had WaW experience and the modding crowd has pushed the editor's envelop, not to mention a vacation for Hubert to reinvigorate his creative nature, it will be time to take the engine to the Pacific.

So Bill you want more rigid ZoCs? I can see the rationale of that, but with 50 mile tiles and knowing that mobile forces are not efficient at holding ground unless they make the transition to a defensive status, I'm skeptical of the application. Better left to the ground pounders with numerous personnel like Armies, let them have the characteristic of closing the pockets with rigid ZoCs. That will provide them with an additional deserved uniqueness. You could implement a rigid ZoC with units (corps, armies & TGs) that remain in their occupied tile for one turn as a form of creating that defensive stance just as they enter into entrenchment levels. As far as supply, you can see that I'm not suggesting a detailed upgrade, just the next step. That has kind of been the MO of the SC engine, a slow evolution of the mechanics to more realism without the loss of its finely tuned abstraction.

Sheesh, I don't get it. What did you do Terif, sprinkle "magic dust" on Liam and turn him into a rookie. I mean...what.... an almost flawless opening and then failing to garrison such a crucial position as Copenhagen, not to mention failing to conserve the Axis navy threat with its early loss. Then compounded with the Germans in a tech superior position outrunning their supplies. On top of all that, no AF for Iraq...not even just one to bleed the Red airforce and there were 8 for Barbarossa. I'm confounded!

Man you talk about an accomplishment, this would be it. Not sure it would satisfy those hardcore WiFers, but it will definitely turn heads. Eventually we would need HC to allow multiple players per side for team efforts. Some refinements for naval and amphibious operations would be included in the mix also. This very well could be the future of SC and in tournament mode would cement its legacy for years to come. But Hubert needs a vacation first.

Africa is a good place to get those Panzers some experience, besides you'll need their extra mobility and firepower traversing the mountains into the Caucasus later. Better get Malta out of the way.

You'd better quell that character flaw ASAP Tiger, or you won't be married long.

Read my lips...... ctober

So ev, woodlands have no value? And marshes don't produce methane gas. Sand can't be melted into glass? Alright.... seriously ....not every tile is worth MPPs, but farmland, pastures, and wetlands do have intrinsic values. I do agree with you about the transportation corridors as they would naturally be located in proximity to areas of commerce. How about the adjacent tiles to roads and railways? Ever hear of farm to market infrastructures? Additionally, tiles concentric with port locations. Even though resource tiles represent a 50x50 mile measurement there are oil fields and mineral deposits that cover an additional scope of land mass. A little research should unveil the areas that have greater MPP values. Never the less, do not forget a nation's most valuable resource, its people. There in represents another reason to defend every tile because someone has to pull the trigger, weapons don't operate by themselves. In the end though, I agree, obviously some tiles would have no value.

That is why I have long advocated that almost every tile should have some correlated worth in MPPs. Then there will be an incentive to defend ones territory, just as it was IRL. Retreats would be made grudgingly difficult for ones defending national forces with ramifications of depleted production for the home front. Sure, it may be a difficult coding and present a complication using the map editor, but once it is in, the games credibility factor increases accordingly. Now to Bill's ATR mod. You want a more difficult France? Well this mod has got it. I'm not sure where the AI is now at as the Allies, but before it was a pretty difficult run for a first time German player. I expect it is exceedingly difficult now with the WaW adjustments. H to H......I don't know, but I can imagine that it could be a gamebreaker for the Axis especially with the Maginot line as its represented. No way the Germans can go through there without tremendous losses and they can't ignore it as ample French forces reside in its fortifications and on the Germans' flanks. Completely different from the SC legacy and quite refreshing. Great job Bill.

Speaking of GDPs, I believe at the end of WW2 the USA equalled the rest of the world combined, which means USA GDP = 50% of planet Earth's. And now almost 65 years later the world is catching up...as it should be, but the catalyst still remains quite reactive. I wonder why that's so? Just luck...I guess................or did it start with: The 300? (not just lip service from these guys)

VJGD you've always had that ability. Just take an ordinary unit, add tech levels and elite reinforcements and then rename.

With the advent of a RR(road/rail) network for WaW is it time for a new SC supply model based upon the criteria used in our old boardgames? WiF model comes to mind. My research shows that our SC engineers should be able to construct a RR infrastructure in a clear tile in 3 SC turns (300 miles/year). That would leave the faster construction rates inherent into the weather patterns that allowed increased efficiency. Since forests and desert require greater time constraints, how about 4 turns, and 6 for swamps/mountains. That would be 3 tiles, 150 miles in one year gametime through swamp/mountain tiles. Should it be higher? Of course if the supporting city/village on the RR line is bombed to below 50% efficiency then all construction stops. Now HQs would still operate accordingly but they would now have to trace a tile path to a RR whose level of efficiency would be based upon the level of the last city/village it traversed through or the highest of either end. Obviously this is a rough sketch, but before we get too specific, is it worth the effort?

Wait a minute Liam, he polished off the East in 43? If that means USSR surrender, then: WTH happened, let's analyze your Red Army play, what could you have done differently? Don't tell me he cut off your convoys.

Damn it Man! With WaW on the horizon we get 1.07, amazing. So this must mean a bundled WaW compatible with and requiring SC2.