SeaMonkey

Maybe that's why Hitler directed the 1942 summer offensive should have the Caucasus oil fields as its objective.

Sorry Retributar, didn't mean to sound condescending, but we have had that discussion so long ago, as many of the topics have been hashed over time and time again. I even made a campaign "Welflotte and Operation Sphinx" many many moons ago about this hypothetical scenario. My apologies to the new lads, but guess what, you guys will get old and jaded also, unless our biotechnicians come up with something. That's assuming there will still be an incentive to be inventive. [ July 10, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

It was called "Operation Sphinx" and it had merit. By making the UK fight in the Mideast at the discretion of Italy and Germany, the UK's resources could have been sorely stretched and eventually they may have sued for peace. Then it would have been the USSR's turn, probably in 43. [ July 10, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Yeah your right Retributar, but you forgot the French, Germans, Russians, oh heck, the whole UN who traded with a certain dictator in a scammed "Oil for Food" program. Let's face it, the entire world and all of its population feels entitled....Mars anyone?

Retributer, I have the answer. The reason, at least the foremost one, is Germany did not possess enough aviation fuel to train pilots thoroughly. Why? Loss of adequate crude oil supplies and the ability to refine them.

Sounds like we may have dissected FoW feature into its innumerable specifics. Let's face it spotting, intelligence, etc. was one big operation to disclose the intent of the enemy and assess his future ambitions. We have the grunts on the ground conducting a patrol to capture an enemy soldier for interrogation all the way up to high flying, high resolution cameras doing bomb assessment damage and all that's in between, including espionage. Then we have a system of human beings evaluating (not always competently) the information and issuing reports to various levels as feedback. Maybe we should not lose the general picture of information in and information out and keep the modifiers to this action simplified, while knowing in our minds that it is an infinitely complicated process made even more chaotic by human inter-action and weather. [ July 07, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Sorry Semiworth, you're obviously trying to subvert our freedom of expression in hopes of sustaining your power. We Americans are on to any subliminal manipulations of our opinions disguised as socialism when in actuality they are nothing but overt communistic aspirations. Your going to have to get up a little earlier in the morning to put one over on us cowboys, G.W. Bush wouldn't fall for it and neither am I. A resounding "YES" vote am I.

Lark, stop messing around, don't wait for SC2, get SC now, and join the community, you won't be sorry.

Bill, your evaluation is "spot-on" , the recon ranges are representative, however, it seems to me that a % decrease in recon disclosure should occur as range increases to simulate larger areas of the earth's surface to be searched. Example: at level 0 range/(intel?) 1 tile from ground/air/naval unit = 100% disclosure, 2 tiles(same tech level) = 90% disclosure, 3 tiles = 80% and so on. You get the idea. This is of course with FoW option on and will add to the drama of "The Search",ie. not knowing if there are other enemy units in proximity even though under the umbrella of your recon radius. I might add that your opponent will also bare the anxiety of doubt, not knowing if his units have been spotted as a consequence of the variable spotting algorithm. IMO this adds a reality element that previously has been lacking in strategic wargames(or any scales for that matter), in other words SC2 could set the precedence. Are you ready, HC, to be on the cutting edge?

Count me as an affirmative response, either way.

Exactly Liam, I'll go for a base, but better would be that MPP value. It would stop ahistorical withdrawals from vast amounts of areas, like the Soviets withdrawing deeply into their interior or pulling back from the frontier border areas prematurely. Every tile would be worth holding on to, or in user created scenarios of a different scale the valued tile could be an objective not known to your opponent.

What the hell!!! Its been 13 minutes and I don't have an answer, what gives? Seriously, could I land my engineer unit on an island and expect it to provide some infrastructure for supply? Could it get off, I mean could it debark? I guess what I'm getting to is something i mentioned a long time ago, that being, if you could provide a tile an inherent MPP or supply level, then you could elevate the importance of that tile and make it more relevant to the game. This simple little feature could provide for all sorts of variability in user created scenarios.

Now, back to my original hypothesis. Bill, Dave, HC, will islands be able to supply a unit without adding to the MPP allocation of either side? In other words, is there something in the editor that will allow a tile to have a base supply level without MPP allocation?

Also noted a port in the proximity of Murmansk. I might add the Engineer unit has a combat orientation(kneeled rifleman and flamethrower). I'm wondering if they will have some unique combat abilities? I also would like any islands that are depicted to have some basing abilities(supply) or else why even represent them, other than perhaps to restrict naval movement.

I think this thread had a foregone conclusion before it started with HC's introduction of the combat modifiers that SC1 HQ's ratings represent. It worked, its simple, so why mess with success. A little tweak to allow for dedicating units to an HQ was all that was needed. A more diversified editor should satisfy any players' discretions as far as military doctrine advantage for one side or the other, ie. just change the ratings.

I'm tired of this "shameless begging", this is a load of crap, 'hiccup' ,....no its worse its a travesty.....and a sham...and possibly a mockery...'hiccup' :eek: yeah...a mockerytravisham 'hiccup'....and I'm not just making this up

See Liam, that's just it, this will not be old SC, the Atlantic will be bigger, subs can run "silent". What Bill is saying is that by applying the tech levels you've acquired descriminately, you can produce the Naval escort class from the cruiser unit. Example: take a bare bones cruiser unit, get a little experience bombarding, apply "Intel", "Sonar"/ASW and whatever else to enhance it's find and destroy abilities and "Presto" = subkiller/escort. Simple, yet effective....the SC way.

Bill, you suspect wisely.

I'm in agreement with this theoretical C3 representation, I like the idea. Only one thing, there seems to be a lot of Tech categories and if it costs 250 MPPs to get a chit then we're going to be severely limited as what to invest in, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

i understand where your coming from Liam, but remember the is SC and this is an abstracted escort taskforce including all your above mentioned vessels. If you take out the carriers then I think the cost could be reduced, but it would be somewhat ahistorical to not represent the carriers, although only UK and USA had them. Perhaps the best of both worlds, allow a low cost (250 MPPs) initially for the "escorts" and as ASW and possible other tech advances add to the features (advent of escort carriers) then the cost would rise appreciably.

ok ev, check out the bumped thread. You see there is something important in "infrastructure" which, although it includes C3, is vital to the performance of your combat units. Ever heard of the saying "an army runs on its stomach", well that's not quite correct either, it needs ammunition and fuel if it is mobile. Conclusion: "infrastructure" contains the parameters of C3 as well as other important aspects, don't forget we already have Hqs.

a bump for ev. [ September 21, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Isn't there a tech called "Infrastructure"? This could be C3,.....Hubert, Dave, Bill?

Am in agreement with Liam. How about a new SC naval unit, "Naval Escorts"? Cost? 325 MPP beginning level, same as Tank Group. Give it a NA value that has some range to represent the escort carriers and some increased spotting since we will have a larger Atlantic.

Soooo....Edwin, I hope you've got a collection of all these scripted files for distribution later.