SeaMonkey

Oh so true my dear JJ, your words resound with the ringing clarity of the Liberty Bell.....and the struggle against hypocrisy continues, ...unfortunately probably for eternity.

You are so right JJ, the identity doesn't matter, the charade of evilness as something righteous will forever be with us. But I digress with you over the simplicity, for it is indeed simple, especially for a simpleton like me, the line of debarkation is distinctive. To put it in the words of one of our immortal forefathers, "Give me liberty, or give me death". And it only takes a few more simpletons with the same ideology and great nations are built.

Interesting JJ, Boots, Hats....you say....hmmm I wonder if spurs count as an insignia. Come to think of it there is some kind of brand on my chaps. And this shirt I have on has a rider on a horse with some kind of sledgehammer in his hand...no doubt to crack some heads. By the way, did any of those links come back with reference to ZioNazis? If they did.....well never you guys mind, we know what to do with them. In the words of our next president, "hook up telephone wires to human genitalia and turn up the current".

Well Gents, where I come from....we don't like Nazis, or any other group which wishes to subject another to their philosophies. We will politely listen and incorporate the silver lining of any dark cloud, but leave that darkness to the north of the Red River or the East of the Sabine...to the south of the Rio Grande, don't be bringing it to Texas....land of the Cowboys and an abundantly armed populace...which will only relinquish their arms from their cold dead fingers..."Let Freedom Ring", ...Remember the Alamo.

This is a great thread, thanks to all contributors and I wholeheartedly agree with the conclusions.....hmmm. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it....so many coincidences....so many twists of fate, that easily could have gone the other way....but didn't....I wonder why? And as these events played out in WW2, were the participants contemplating the lessons, either in part or whole, as the subtle illusions of grandeur collapsed or were realized? Now that we look back in hindsight it is easy to predicate the turning points of that struggle, but what of our struggle now.....do we have the clarity of vision to ascertain the chivalrity of our deeds? Let us hope that as we do now, the succeeding generations look back upon our time and say "It must be so, the Almighty was with them". [ August 17, 2004, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

M782, Good point, but remember AFs represent many airplane/jet types. Perhaps HC should consider SBs for this role if indeed the feature comes to fruition as well as for paratroop/glider transport. Would give us SCers another reason to purchase SB/transport thereby diversifying the game.

Tired of the same old Fall Weiss...the same starting moves, cookie cutter strategy again and again. Don't like to bid, need balance from the start.....want the the real ending of WW2 as it historically happened.....of course only if your reeeaalll good as the Axis, it can be changed. Well boys and girls....and this campaign ain't for you girlymen either...presenting Operation Sphinx. The setting is Spain, December 1940, the treacherous Spanish have joined the Axis. Elite German combat teams disguised in Spanish uniforms are poised to strike Gibraltar with the aim of closing the front door to the Med. With rich resources from newly conquered LC and French territories the Germans have many options to hone their war machine into a terrible menace to unleash upon the USSR. There's just one problem....well actually two. There's not much time, Stalin is not pussy-footing around this time, and the poor Germans start off with a great deficiency in combat units. If that's not enough, then that damned old Mussolini is stuck up to his ass in Grecian mud and the UK stands ready to kick Graziana's butt out of the Cyrenaica. So all you wanna be Adolphs, do you think you have what it takes.......well...do ...you punk!!!

Yepper that's a big 10-4, your right DD, but I have had my wrestle with a Rochester 4MV, remember I'm a Buick man. Nowadays I dabble with Sequential Fuel Injection, much more efficient, easier to troubleshoot, a nice simple solution to carbs, "The Way It Ought to Be"(TWOB)!!!!

Sounds great DD, thanks for the response......got to love realism without complication....the way life should be. Agreed Retributar, air supply is an intangible action of insufficiency when supplying organizations the size of SC units.

Retributar, thanks for the plug, but my opinion carries no greater weight than anyone else in this forum (as it should be). HC is the man, with guidance from Bill and Dave and a few of our off the wall comments should be all that's necessary. And definitely SoD has a good point about experience and risk taking, I mean there are even accidents in training exercises.

Bill, this brings up an interesting question, will there be a provision for supply by air? I know in most cases with airborne troops that supply did not continue for a time period of 1-4 weeks(SC gameturn), but I'm thinking about a situation similar to what the Germans did at Stalingrad for the Sixth Army and what about the Americans supplying Berlin during the Berlin crises. Wasn't that around 1948? Perhaps one or two airfleets choosing "supply" as an option, like intercept, would have the capability to provide supply to a corps/army size formation, of course air supremacy would have to enter into the equation.

Code Breaking will be in the game, albeit abstracted, through the revelation of units in cities and other undisclosed features. Read HC's developer notes, reference to intelligence and espionage.....SC2..."its in there"

Curry, I have had jets level 1 on the second turn as UK and more than a few times, but <30%, by April 40. That is with a first turn investment of one chit.

Well Rambo probably missed on the "had" position, although the naval and airforces of WW2 were pretty dominating. But he definitely got the "has" position correctly.

Food for thought: from WW2 Encyclopedia: Population/ No.in Armed Forces France 42 million/ 4.6 million Germany 78 million(1938)/ 17.9 mil. Italy 43.8 mil./ unknown Japan 72.2 mil. (37)/ 9.1 mil. UK 47.5 mil/ 5.9 mil USA 129.2 mil./ 16.4 mil USSR 194.1 mil/ 30 mil. These are of course estimates and rounded. The data for the minors is also available.

I won't refute anything "The Master" has said but will add that as UK if you can get an early Jet tech level(one chit investment)before France attack you can intercept Luftwaffe without Monty. Monty=470 MPPs.. Jet tech=250 MPPs.. As I've said before, this lucky advance makes the Germans either invest in Jets early or pay MPPs through intercepts delaying the surrender of France. Now think what you as UK can use the extra MPPs for, and later(catch up doesn't always kick in right away)you(UK) will have 3AFs and 3 carriers for raiding (buy one more AF).

Thanks DD for a very informative, detailed response....answered all my questions. Now we know how SC2 features are to be used to script each country's OOB and military limits, specifically. Now that this step has been concluded, is it time to pursue the historical military configurations for each country and what their capabilties should be or evolve based on what parameters of conquest/resource accumulation? And what is the beginning time period......Sept 1939? The beginning OOBs are pretty much set in stone with a little "wiggle" on echelon configurations, corps, armies, tank groups, etc. One question now comes to mind with all this contemplation. Will there be a way to script a modification of the hard/soft limits during the game to represent the accumulation of additional strategic resources through conquest? Example: Germany acquires a certain tile with oil/mineral resources and now becomes able to field another motorized(TG) formation without the % penalty for exceeding its TG limit, as well as if it loses said tile a greater % is enabled for reinforcing all TGs, or something to this effect? Gosh....are we ever satisfied?

"The limits option will probably be a generic game setting and not something for each country. Each country will still have unit type limits defined for the scenarios, but players would choose hard/soft/none for the game. This would be a player preference decision, and each option would produce a different style of gameplay." Bill are you saying the limits(hard) are unmoddable code? I'm also reading into this that the limits are specific to unit types(is this an editable parameter)? Again I'm assuming that the players will have the option to enable the %MPP penalty for building over the hard limits by choosing soft limits? Will the players be able to set the amount of the % penalty?

"nor are its micromanagement features desired by many players." Exactly....What I'm hearing is that with force limits both soft and hard, the mechanism is available for SC2 to model the historical belligerent's militaries. The "what if" model will be handled by the "soft limit" that penalizes the country's infrastructure(MPPs) for exceeding it(hard). IMO the only thing that needs to be decided is what defines the boundary between the soft and hard for each country.

There is still hope Waltero, always will be....and stop with that forlorn look. Remember HC gave us a campaign editor and there are some great customs out there.....now go visit Otto's site and DL one, you can find balance without bidding. And if you don't like it you can mod it. Isn't freedom wonderful?

Are you guys sure you want to embark upon this venture without the knowledge of the features SC2 will have to develop this model. IMO, the intracacies of this model will probably exceed the features SC2 will have available unless you make some generic general decisions based on starting raw data and which specifics will be relevant to the model and which will have to be discarded, everything can't be considered.

Oh and Lioneyes, CT forgot to mention the AA defense bonus for your intercepted attacking airfleets when they are based in your city/resource hexes.

In Fall Weiss, there is nothing you can do on the East Front to stop a good determined Axis player, unless there was a humongous bid or you get lucky with IT and AT tech advances. You must open up the "Second Front" and you must do it before the Rostov-Moscow-Leningrad Line has been achieved. Since the Siberians are done, you have little chance....Pull back to Urals and Caucasus, screen with corps to keep USSR whole, hoping for a short delay while Axis builds supply, stretch him so partisans are active, he will have to garrison. And last but not least .....kamikaze the West. Good Luck, you are going to need it... Strike that, You need a miracle.

Kind of depends Col.K, on what's available, how many hexes you can attack from, and what you want to accomplish. For the most part CT has it right, I would add that SBs subtract 2 levels of entrenchment when attacking or go with your units which receive no counterattack loss, ie carriers/naval/rockets. Once the entrenchment is gone you know what to do. One other note, units with high readiness/experience are more apt to cause a strength loss in addition to the loss of entrenchment as well as not receiving damage in return but are more useful when entrenchment is nill. When all else is unavailable use corps to reduce entrenchment as they are cheapest for replacement costs.

"I knew I was a Racist American Elitist Xonophobe!" Oh contrare my elitist brother, the racist xonophobe does not apply. The "American Elitist Historian" is more accurate and this is exactly the kind of thing I was refering to,.. regarding historical perspective, your in fine form, nice to have you back.