Shosties

I know it is no longer "hip" to refer to von Mellenthin's "Panzer Battles", but he wrote that a vital element of combating the Soviet numerical superiority in infantry was "fire discipline", which I have heard interpereted as good old-fashioned Washingtonian "don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes". Opening up with your MGs on troops human waving in the open at close range is the only way to guarentee that men are actually killed and wounded rather than just pinned. Firing early just ensures the men hug the earth and eventually crawl forwards in strength (though this might be hard to cajole sub-conscripts into doing). Imagine if the Yelnia Stare scenario was extended in time, you could then comfortably sneak your horde into close combat range and deal the Germans a defeat without relying on the T-34s (as I think someone here has actually managed to do even within the given time limit). Has anyone, playing as the Germans, tried holding back on the MGs and letting that horde come close (I know, talk about nerve wracking) and then letting them have it just before they are close enough to sight or toss grenades?

Hunh, why Vienna, if that was the one capital he was eventually going to 'give up' entirely (though as a neutral rather than a future NATO-member)? Did he have a notion of making Austria a satellite state that he gave up on later?

Two major factors there I believe. A short-lived counterattack by Third Panzer Army (at that point quite a misnomer) on his northern flank drew Zhukov's attention away from a quick encirclement of Berlin. And there were the inevitable logistical problems of having advanced all the way from the Vistula to the Oder as rapidly as they did. That said, I have heard that an encirclement (not storming) of Berlin was the planned capstone of the Vistula offensive. [ September 08, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

Ask ten CM players and you'll get at least eleven answers. Ten answers per player would be more likely. But seriously, as in real life combat, there are no absolute rules. Everything is conditioned by so many variables (terrain, strengths and weaknesses of your units and the enemies, amount of time available, weather, time of day, etc. etc. etc.) that it is impossible to formulate a succinct and unambiguous answer to this question. However, there are guidelines and rules-of-thumb you can learn, either through your own experience with the game, or by reading about other peoples' experiences here on the forum and the many CM fan sites. Note that there are most certainly differences in style, and some players go as far as adopting or formulating sophisticated doctrine (here's a good example of that). Since CM comes so close to working like a real life battle, field manuals written up by armies and books on tactics are actually very helpful as well. But basically, the only way to get really good at CM is to play a lot of games, especially games against human opponents who can be much more devious, methodical, or unpredictable than the AI. [ September 08, 2002, 04:16 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

In CM:BO all tanks are independent and have their effectiveness solely determined by their own experience rating. Tanks in CM:BO do not have morale states with the exception of 'shocked' which happens when the tank commander is wounded or killed, rendering the tank inactive and very vulnerable for a given amount of time (dependent on crew experience I would guess). In CM:BB tank crews have morale states and they report back to their platoon leader's command tank and can benefit from bonuses that their leader posesses when they are within 'command and control', 'C&C', (red line connecting tank to command tank). Tanks without radios must be unbuttoned and their commander must be unbuttoned as well for there to be C&C.

The condition 'hull down' means that, with respect to a certain coordinate on the map surface, that the tank has only it's turret visible from there (in other words, in line-of-sight, or 'LOS'). This makes for a smaller effective target, and the front turret face is usually the most highly sloped and armored facet of a tank (major exceptions: Panzer Mark IVs, and early model T-34 M40s, others anyone?). Generally, if you are hull down to an enemy tank and the enemy tank is not hull down to you, you have the advantage. CM:BB, but not CM:BO, has a command called 'hull down' where you designate a point on the map, and the tank will trundle off at walking pace in a direct line, and stop (usually, there is a chance dependent upon crew experience level they will not stop at the proper place I think) when it is 'hull down' with respect to the designated point. In CM:BO, you can use the hunt command judiciously to put yourself in this position. You can use the LOS tool to check if you are hull down wrt various map points during the orders phase; text will appear on your tank to let you know, and remind you that your bow machinegun, if you have one, cannot be brought to bear there. Remember, if you have a number of enemies, being hull down wrt to one doesn't necessarily mean you are hull down wrt to the others.

Had another go at Citadel as Sov this evening. Went somewhat better in terms of final score. Remember: light guns can be manhandled. I leave the implications to your imagination.

Great story, gunnergoz. It's interesting that they do take delight in seeing the Germans coming off badly against their virtual countrymen. LOL, collect some good movies of your exploits, crank up Prokofiev's "Vstavaitye, lyudi russkiye" on the stereo and get out the popcorn and invite the family!

I put three ATGs of higher experience in the back of the front-left objective woods for flank and rear shots, the rest in an arc from the scattered trees in front of the wheatfield to the stands on the slope of the mesa to the right. ATRs I put in the little rough patches by that wood, and in the rearmost of the bigger rough patches on the right side. That right hand patch got two Maxims. The remaining Maxims and the tank hunting teams took up in the woods with the ATGs. The KVs were on the extreme right, a goof on my part put them in LOS of a rise deep in the German end of the map. I was amazed by the "Keystone Cops" handling of the German armor by the AI. Two Pz III's must have bogged down way back there. I moved my KVs turret down after some Pz III's took pot shots at them at extreme range (got hits too, ricochets, but impressive all the same). So they came on eventually in this tight snotball with them getting in each other's way and all and I'm just kind of scratching my head. They turn towards the woods and sight two of the ATRs in the rough patches nearby and blow them to smithereens in seconds. The glob then heads off towards the small slope road flag, with the exception of one Pz III making directly for the three ATGs, and I am presented with the ass-on view of twleve tanks. Everybody has been hiding with tiny cover arcs up till now. Well that did it, I have many juicy targets and the prospect that the forward-placed ATGs will be spotted any moment, so I have those three open up. Unfortunately, only the Pz III headed towards the woods and one Pz IV get knocked out before those three ATGs are blown away. That done, the main mass of enemy panzers just sits there, with the exception of a lone Pz IV which continues on to the small road slope flag. I have one ATG on my extreme left in front of the field engage the Pz IV and it brews spectacularly on the third or fourth shot without even a reply. Eventually the snot ball comes up to the lip of the slope and a general melee starts, and I bring the KVs out of hiding. One Pz IV and two Pz IIIs back out of the engagement intact. Five of my remaining ATGs have been taken out as well as the two KVs. Time runs out. IIRC 66-34 tactical victory for me. I'm not sure those three ATGs I put in the woods really paid off. I could have gambled that the Pz III would have not spotted them and held back until they clanked towards the lip. I'm not happy having only one Pz III to the KVs' credit either. I'm dissapointed that I got this score against what looked to me like a really clumsy AI. Comments?

Set up an MG behind your frontline and area fire where you have cowardly troops. I'm sure that the "friendly fire" will cause a few casualties- thus getting rid of your cowards. </font>

Terence, Warning recieved and understood. Thanks for that link. This one just about made my day: khuem grushi okolachivat' I can only imagine how Quentin Tarantino films are dubbed into Russian.

The main things I think the Germans recognized they needed in a MBT to succeed the Pz III (Pz IVF2 and beyond are really stop gap and expedient MBTs evolved from an infantry support tank): Thicker, well sloped armor on front hull and turret. Wider tracks. (Ummm what's the ground pressure of Panther vs. late model Pz IIIs?) A much bigger gun. Certainly the T-34 can be seen as a big infuence in these features. Basically, achieving the best features of both the T-34 and the Pz III in one tank was the driving goal. The one thing the Panther sacrificed in achieving this (largely, I guess you could bitch about the traverse rate) was economy of production and prehaps reliability in the field to some extent (even after the Ausf. D?). [ September 06, 2002, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

Pathfinder, Yup. Native Russian speaker confirms really foul language in CMBB! Check out the new thread. Foul Mouthed Russians! [ September 06, 2002, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

Oh yeah. Heh heh heh Gimme Gimme Gimme... ISU! (see sig)

You can generally assume some NVKD will be off map on the "safe side". When I had some conscript squads rout and run due to the spoilling barange in the Yelnia scenario, I just shrugged and thought I'd be seeing them later in an open grave or in a penal battalion for mine clearing duty (and I don't mean the probe and spade variety!).

dazed, mega-kudos for you if you can bribe her ( ) into coming up with rough and ready translations for the more common clips. I chuckle at the "no accent" comment. Everyone has an accent, they just don't see their own kind. Is she a Muscovite? I get the impression Russians are impressed if you can pull off a good Muscovite or SPB accent as a foreigner. In another thread, someone lamented he didn't hear any of the Russians say "ne kulturny" and I told him at the front, they'd probably be resorting to much more pungent stuff than that.

Hey Prinz, I once met a fellow who claimed to have learned Finnish (yeah, I know, for an American, why? Missionary work???) and he said they're weren't really any "bad" or "foul" words in the language, just expressions with potent connotations (usually relating to the devil). Is this true?

If the pre-war Soviets were really dissapointed by finding out the Pz III had such a top speed advantage (under ideal conditions no doubt) then even they underestimated the importance of robust cross country performance over soggy ground. [ September 06, 2002, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

It would be nice, in the rewrite, for the unit bases not to get clipped into odd shapes or into oblivion by the surrounding terrain. Different bases for different units would also be neat. Indeed, it would be cool to have "nationality" bases with crosses or roundrels like in Talonsoft's Campaign Series. [ September 06, 2002, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

It could be he's carrying a big reel of wire to connect him with the battery, and leaving that at his inital setup site when his ammo runs out is not modeled in the game. [ September 06, 2002, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]

Something tells me they would resort to stronger stuff than that on the front; both to each other and to the Germans.

In my Pz IV example there was only bare steppe between the hilltop it was behind and the KV. :confused:

A fair portion of the traffic in the new CMBB section is taken up by the 'Tips and Tricks' kind of Q&A and debate over tactics and the new commands. And the problem is, all that stuff is getting well established over there now with all the volume, making this section rather worthless when it comes to the CMBB demo.

It just ocurred to me that there should some months were Sovs get M4s (admittedly 75s and not 76s) and the Germans will not get Panthers.

I can see it now: QBing with Guards units (veterans+ say) with lend lease M4s prior to the 34/85 becoming available will be seen as gamey when the ground conditions are dry. The spotting ability and responsiveness of radio-equipped tanks with a non-distracted and unbuttoned tank commander counts big time. [ September 05, 2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ]