Desert Dave

HEY! Wait a minute! That's... Hubert? :eek: I thought... I was workin' for this guy... See, I wuz out at Balboa Beach, And this guy comes be-bopping along And he says to me: "I'm gonna start up a rock & roll band, Named after a Huxley book, Know any rough-house lyrics?" And I replied: "Yeah man, I got this whole old notebook full Of eerie-odd writings, wanna see?" And he said: "Nah, beach-bumming Dude, I got this Here push-button thing-a-ma-jig And if I... select this button... I can make a fantastic new WW2 strategy game!" And I said: "Hey, Kahuna Surf-Man, I am WITH you!" :cool:

OK, all you great and grand speculators, let's just take... a hypothetical. No need to assume or presume or mostly push around mounds of clinging cob webs with an old Wizard's broom. Let's say... the AP for Armies starts out at 2. Let's say the AP for Corps starts out at 3. Also, Let's say... the MAXIMUM that can be achieved with "mechanized tech" is... 3. [... keep in mind, some techs might NOT extend all the way out to the end of the potential string of 5; for example, could be that Gun Laying Radar would have a maximum achievable level of 3 as well... just how much did naval surface ships actually change in the course of 5 years? How much faster can a WW2 era engine actually drive you hither and into the thicket?] Therefore, the maximum movement rate for Armies would be 5, and Corps would be 6. Now, what if the Armor started out... at 6. Presto! The Armies & Corps would NEVER exceed the built in movement capabilities of the Tanks. Presuming that you invested, and assuming that you got results, then you might eventually get to a level where Mech could JUST keep up with the tanks. We'll see. Much incredible stuff to test yet. Including the secret methods for sweeping out cob webs! Sure, Hubert the Ace Alchemist is working on that too!! :cool: Not only that, but as Shaka has reminded, max speed for any Armor or Mechanized unit has NOTHING to do with how far and how fast the unit advances on a treacherous field of battle. There are breakdowns. There are pauses to allow recon activities. There is Commander hesitancy in the face of... the Unknown. Who can forsee? That looming face in the distant copse of Evergreeen trees... which might be... drooling dross and monstrous deformed! :eek: And, IF the cost of "mechanizing" your Armies and Corps is indeed expensive, THEN you would likely only increase movement for a PART of your forces. After all, you do not have unlimited MPPs, you are not Croesus sitting in a counting house counting and smiling all the night long, true? The strike forces. The mobile reserve. These would be mechanized. Some units would not be, EVEN if you had the ability. Since they are garrisons. Some units would be PARTIALLY mechanized. Since they are the "mop-up" boys. Etc, etc. Some countries such as USA and Britain would probably start out with a higher "mech tech" than the envious others. Well, All of this and much more WILL be thoroughly beta tested, so that EVERY SINGLE aspect will fit together quite exquisitely. And, important to remember, remain within the bounds of historical precedent. And, able to be edited so those who want to see if Patton could indeed throw the Beserkers out of Eastern Europe, with those new-fangled Menace Machines... could try it. You do want to keep a WW2 GS game within reasonable parameters. After all, Hubert,... who I again remind IS the sole designer of SC2-Blitzkrieg! , is NOT making Nazi Space Rangers VS the Warp Speed Geeks!!

j_j_r, One of the more astute commentaries I have read in some while. Between you and JJ, you have nailed it. Trouble is, and it's no small ball of snakes... the currently constituted American Super-Conglomerate Corps OWN the politicians. Lock, stock and barrel. Silk-knot necktie and blue suede shoes, too. Just about every damn one of them, no matter what single party affiliation (... the citizens think there are actually TWO parties???... LOLOLOLOLOL!!!! Ah me... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! So. What to do? :confused: Public financing of ALL campaigns, right down to local Alley-Cat collector. Strict spending limits. Period. NO more buying up American Con-Politicos like they are jaw-breakers plucked out of a Mason Jar at that there Country Store you used to visit as a free wheeling Kid. Kid Rambo twirling a 9-iron and dreaming of holing that last putt out at Pebble Beach. Back when you smiled a lot... for no reason at all. :cool: It's hard. Hard for me to imagine... and I have read many historical and sociological and religious books, but, hard to imagine any Society anywhere at ANY time... being so filthily CORRUPT as this Modern American one. :eek: Soon enough we will all be huddled in small teeming enclaves and surrounding all around... will be these monstrous trash and refuse and garbage dumps. Miles & miles as far as the bleeding eye can see. Reeking. Infested. Radiocative. Disease-filled. Rats all over the place. Vultures sitting and peering. No flowers. No antic butterflies. No cool clean waters. No clear light-blue skies. No close friends. No faithful lovers. No gentle, mind-easing musics. All will be a fight for a bestially befouled existence. If you could call it that. Take the two prescient movies... Road Warrior, and Blade Runner and somehow merge them in your mind, and you will have some idea of what I am talking about. Soon... very soon, it's coming. Unregulated Capitalism will bury us all. As the dedicated trust-buster, Teddy Roosevelt well knew. Yep, buried. Buried alive for many, many, and as they suck in that last dirty breath, they will wonder? Mebbe I shoulda done something when I had a chance! Buried... in garbage. In planned obsolescent trash. In useless junk. Well. Other than all that? There is hope, but of course. Better start in with the almost endless and long, long overdue changes first thing tomorrow morning, I am thinking. Best possible solution? Unseat every single one of the Congress, immediately! New elections next, with only two months to campaign. ONLY public financing, severely limited, seriously regulated. Then, treat the new Congress-members and their inevitable malfeasances and common ordinary shams and dedicated thefts and war & peace profiteering the EXACT same way you treat the guy who is nabbed trying to shoplift... a jaw-breaker. No exceptions.

The work goes on! Well, ahem, and admittedly, Hubert is doing all of the good hard work, anyway, onward we go! :cool: OK. You want to make a grand campaign scenario that is TWICE-over.. the currently proposed map-size? IE, 25-mile tiles? No problem, you can easily do this, though, your tile calculations are a little off. Don't ask me why. Not a bad idea. If you do indeed make the "rockets" category into an artillery corps, I would suggest this: L0: Basic artillery. L1: Heavy, LR arty. L2: Basic ground-to-ground rockets. L3: Improved GtG rockets. L4: V-1 L5: V-2 (Note: L4 & L5 would be closed to all except Germany, obviously, and... perhaps, USA, who might get L4 if you are feeling charitable, and assuming some "supernatural act of Thor"... and, even L2 or L3 should be closed out for most WW2 Powers; also, L1 should be closed to some of them) Next, we would need some of our talented mod artists to make some icons for each country, at each level, then we could plug them and viola! we got our awesome artillery pieces! Sounds good! Let us all know when you have a good and faithfull game up and thoroughly tested and running like... a swift mountain Cat fast after that... lamely limping baby antelope! [ June 04, 2004, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

He'll handle that. And what comes after. And the next thing, and then the next. Good smart kids like CT just... make it. :cool:

If Edwin P doesn't some day down the gaming road... design, test and market a Division-level WW2 game, that has! Everything! in it, to include what D.David Eisenhower liked on his Belgian waffles every fourth morning come June... AND! How far and in what precise arc >>>> a sparrow flies once it has carom'd off that there Vulcan-wing of one of them ME-262 Jet things, as it is roaring off the runway, well, I'll eat my old beloved Cleveland Indians baseball hat <<<< backwards. [ June 02, 2004, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

Once SC2 is out and understood... partially so, since it will take months and years even, to FULLY appreciate every little rope-trick and 6-shooter nuance, Well, this Euro victory string WILL come to an end, I can surely ASSURE you'all. Then the "young-guns" and the "old slingers" meet up at the SC Corral, and have a meeting of the ghost-town minds... these here Euro "faux Cowboys" are... good for the Buffalo Bill Wild West Show, mebbe, and not much more, I am thinking, uh, yep, yep.

Hunt & pecked out a few responses here 'n there, as well, perhaps? And, Man O Man, Reckon it on up in 2-4 paw-time, It's a land animal with A grand plan, Can that ol' Internet Cat flat out Rat-a-tat-tat, or what! :cool:

It is currently posited as part of "infantry weapons," which is a separte researchable category. This seems perfectly appropriate, given the scale and design schematic. If you want MORE artillery... IE, the German sIG-33 which was put into service in 1936, but used effectively as a howitzer oh, until 1943 or so, when the Germans began using their 120-mm mortar, then, you can research "infantry weapons" ... or not, as you choose. This research category could be presumed to also include combat engineers with flame-throwers and assorted explosives, and "heavy-MG" infantry detachments, and perhaps, armored cars used as the "hardened tip of the assault arrow" and, well, whatever else you can summon or imagine as... "infantry weapons." We do want to keep the game-board/screen uncluttered, true? Since there is no stacking, (... and I for one am REALLY glad for that, and have elaborated WHY, elsewhere) it surely would be problematical to have all these separate weapons systems deployed on the board. **Now, having said all that, I too wouldn't mind seeing the "rockets" category changed around a little. My suggestion was this: a new category of "heavy artillery/rockets" where L1 and L2 (... slightly improved as to potency and range... not much room to significantly increase strength here) would be CONCENTRATED artillery-type formations, mobile and/or static, and L3 would be the ground-to-ground rockets such as Nebelwerfer, and L4 would be the V-1, and L5 would be the V-2. And, since we CAN buy earlier versions of EACH type of combat unit, well, you could then purchase artillery, or ground-based rockets as needed (... assuming of course, that you have reached, or allowed, in your scenario, in the editor, L3 rockets) [Yep, these WOULD be one effective way to counter fortifications and reduce city-defenses in lieu of merely using bombers. Also, they could be used as "coastal artillery"... after all, as is, the shore bombardment tactic seems a mite one-sided.] No sense going further than that on rockets however, since we are NOT re-enacting post-WW2 advances; also, I personally would limit the L4 & L5 V-1 and V-2 to Germany ONLY. NO other Major Power had these... why should they be allowed for USA or UK or any other country? It wasn't until AFTER the war that US and USSR "kidnapped" those spoils of war, IE, German rocket scientists and research papers at places like Peenemunde and Nordhausen, that the West could even BEGIN to contemplate... rockets. Now, I have expressed my preferences. As you all are now doing. That doesn't mean that I EXPECT... ANY of my own suggestions to be implemented. In that regard, all of your suggestions are about as good and appropriate as any of mine. But, like you'all, I sure do enjoy making them! [ May 28, 2004, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

Yer welcome SeaMonkey! This is an ongoing process. Much yet to do. We will all get there, following Hubert's Exceptionally gracious lead. Eventually, there WILL be AARs with screenshots, have no fear. Until then, Bill and I are equally as interested and excited about all the new! and accomplished features, as you are. Keep on making suggestions and offering up EVERY little detail you care to. I read these informed comments and... USED to believe that I knew a little something about WW2 gaming... ha-ha! Not so fast, precocious Hopper! Well, just... keep on keepin' on! :cool: [ May 27, 2004, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

Weaklings? With Egyptian sands kicked in their sun-peeling and awful forlorn face? Won't be the case in SC2, I can assure you of that much. Hubert has emphasized that he does want the tank to become as relevant, and as decisive, and as mobile, and as potent as it was in the actual World War 2, ETO. Hence, the name of the game: SC2-Blitzkrieg! Insofar as actual research paramaters, and "combat target data"... which will insure that the tank WILL indeed perform up to Hurryin' Heinz Guderian's fondest expectations, well, that will be realized in time, and by way of thorough beta-testing. If it is not... QUITE, to your liking, then, but of course, you might make small modifications in your own "dream campaign." The Corps can move too far and too fast? Adjust the APs down a click. The tank needs slightly better sloping armor and track-skirts, so to deflect those furious! hornet A/T shells that the Red Berserkers unleash? Go to your hammered anvil (... your editor) and adjust the tank's soft-attack defense... UP a click. There is simply TOO MUCH A/T capability, in your humble opinion? FREEZE the potential research for whichever Country you wish. Russia? Too many and too furious those hornets? No problem... now a Max 3 on the A/T research board.

Notice however, eagle-eyed Edwin P, I did NOT say WHEN that would happen, only that... it would, Which, is not much more exacting than saying Night will follow Day, And Day will be hard on the black heels of Night, Given, naturally, those hazy interludes, Like evening and early reveille morning. What! An amazing group. :cool: There is no greater bunch of sharp and inquisitive members anywhere, I swear! Goes to show... each word must be deliberately considered, since there are those who will, finally, inevitably, see... everything! Just as, in time, and as noon follows mid-morning coffee break... all will eventually know about this most wondrous! undertaking... SC2-Blitzkrieg! :cool:

I feel this is important enough to create a separate topic. Thus far, Bill and I have commented on some aspects of SC2, and occasionally... perhaps, been slightly premature with a couple of the comments we made. I know this to be true in my case, anyway. We have done it because we are, as everyone else here, VERY excited about this new! game. **HOWEVER, As stated above, we are NOW in a position where we must be more careful. I only ask that everyone will appreciate this "exacting status" and please, do NOT ask either of us, or any other added beta-testers to reveal DETAILS of the game. Hubert will do that as he deems appropriate. Nonetheless, we can continue to participate in any and all discussions, and even offer some "general" comments. Thanks for understanding!

JPW, From this point on... Hubert will be providing almost ALL of the details for this truly amazing game. There may be some exceptions down the road, as with AARs and the like, and so, we'll see. As you can well imagine, there is a VERY good and compelling reason for this. ONLY he knows what will be included. And, HOW or even IF any features will, or will not be implemented. I am not intending to avoid any further questions, but pzgndr and I ARE bound by a NDA, and from here on out, since there will be a transition from Alpha to Beta, we have to be, ummmm, more... circumspect. But, we can and will elaborate on those "general aspects" (... and I am not referring to giving Guderian a rating of 9, which he DESERVES, IMHO) of the game, BUT, as I say, Hubert truly should be the only one who is forthcoming, since he alone knows what is relevant to discussions... and, naturally, as he has the time. :cool:

Here's one way: Let's say I am making an "Afrika Korps" game scenario, which I am fully intending to do, and the distance across each tile is... ~ 12 miles. Well, this is approximately one-fourth (1/4) of the SC2 distance per tile, true? But, I do NOT have to divide all movement and combat factors by 4, because each unit is 4 times smaller, so the relationship between the presently provided units does not actually change. Therefore, I will create the map of the North Afrikan coast, using the new map editor, and it will be complete with the Med Sea and Malta and southern Italy (... to establish potential Axis economic power for this scenario) and then I will take the provided units and INSTEAD of being Armies and Fleets and Air Forces, they will NOW become Battalions and Brigades and Divisions, and individualized clusters of ships, and small Air groupings. It doesn't really matter how you do this, so long as the RELATIVE combat values are precisely viable. And, the movement scale, or "action points," will fit into this new ~12 mile tile schematic once they are appropriately modified. All it takes from that point on, is some serious "play testing" to insure that the game remains within "reasonable" parameters, IE... the units cannot move more than what might be expected in the desert, and the units' combat abilities are kept within expected bounds. The new! Editor will allow all of this to occur... it is merely to be careful to maintain all unit relationships. :cool: Finally, anticipating one expected question: Yes, there very well could be a way to have... "reinforcements." And, best, likely several ways to do this. Hubert will have to elaborate on these possibilities, if and when he has the time and inclination. [... and, units being withdrawn; for this, you merely have to "disband" the unit in question, which would require some established "rules" before playing your mod scenario, IE, such & so unit will be dissolved at some certain time] [ May 24, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

I do believe I am on topic. And, am serious. Assess the Allied leaders for each country, based in relevant part on the following apt criteria: 1) UK... before and after... Operation Torch. 2) Russia... before and after... Stalingrad. 3) USA... before and after... St Lo. There is one kind of leader, who can rally and enthusiastically tactic when he is fair certain his Country will... lose. There is another kind of leader, who can do the same when the "game" is yet hanging in the balance. And there is a 3rd kind of leader who rises to the fore when most of his, or, the Hated Foe's troops are demoralized. It's like Sports or Politics or standing in line at the Gas Station when rationing is in effect. WHO! Can do all these wondrous things when the times are... MOST dire? Keep in mind each "psychologicial context" when rating your favorite leader, is all I am suggesting. The winners write slightly "giddy-up" History, eh?

ALWAYS! Much easier to go rolling along singing out loud and strong, a "V" for victory song, WHEN Your side is... winning. When your rear is covered by... fighters with fresh stalking pilots, and reams of artillery and Endless stocks of fill-the-hungry-gut supply, AND... our old sing-along pal... "momentum." Which is why that guy Who has the smell of conquest... on his side, IS... the briskly! marching man. ... why, you wouldn't hardly even need ANY Leaders. Everyone! IS a leader then! :cool: [... how does that old JFK quote go? "Victory has many fathers, but, Defeat is an orphan."] [ May 24, 2004, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

With Clusters, Excellent points all around, and very well stated. I too have occasionally "chafed" ... when, playing as Allies, I do NOT get my opportunity to "play it on out" because the Axis player has realized, perhaps even prematurely, that his strutting on stage time... is up. This is not even half-hearted fair. If you have suffered through the long, arduous struggle, when you cannot hardly fight back due to slowly aggregating Allied resources, then it seems patently selfish for the opponent to just fold up his bountiful blitz cards. Hubert will have to elaborate on this at some point, and I'm confident that he will. When? We'll just have to wait and see. But, I too am awaiting some further elucidation, and am also hoping for a way to extend campaign games... in determined hopes of achieving a "small or minor victory" when all was thought completely lost! __________________ And, oh, BTW, in this new version of SC, there WILL be a better opportunity for the Allied player to finally have his day... the new game will be noticeably better balanced, and, more importantly, due to compelling and historical reasons, and not because of any artificial "equalizing methods." [... such as "bidding processes"... more likely that sheer and pure skill will carry the day, either Allied OR Axis... though, some accident and "luck" will attend each encounter... this is, to me, very realistic since "battlefield fog-slog and confusions" were as rife and evident in the real war, as exactly planned and executed battles, true?] [ May 22, 2004, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

CGG, Perhaps on those music boards you can set the metro-gnome to include atonal or discordant cursings. There are many boards that we all visit from time to time... it is merely to know HOW you might express yourself on each unique one. Here, the cursing is dis-allowed, which I am in favor of (... I have to be), since, as we well know, war-gamers are, or can be... an exceptionally competitive bunch, at times, and this way you can keep the powder dry and potential and cool, yes? Welcome to the amazing SC World... you will no doubt have many opportunities to display your be-bop and Joyce-like "numpty dumpty" and also, some throttle-on! mettle. :cool:

Or, You might have a new! game that retains the very best of the old and adds in some truly innovative schematics that would allow the game to be more, ummmmmm, exacting in strategic and tactical decision making. The essential point also being that you can "edit" the new game to suit your own inclinations, making it as basic, or as Xtra complex as you care to. As you say Ron, time will tell, but... I am quite confident that SC2 will still be loads of fun, and ALSO a true and a lasting challenge for all those who also like deeper, and more involved Economic, Diplomatic and purely hard-corps Military considerations. :cool:

JerseyJohn has been posting great stuff like that for a long, long time. I for one would sincerely hope that he continues to "grace" these boards with, well, just about anything he cares to mull over or talk about. It is always an education. It is always interesting and entertaining. It is always delivered with some "earned insight." And, Not to forget, Some of his suggestions for an improved game have been, apparently, well considered for the new! SC2-Blitzkrieg! ... as have those great and knowledgable ideas of many of the others who have been around forever, it seems. But JJ sometimes does not get enough credit, and some of the newer guys are simply saying things that he has said before. Same with those others who have been around a long time. Way to go! JerseyJohn! And Everybody! :cool:

j_j_r, Doggone if I know... one of those late-night throes where anything is likely to come calling unbidden. I just as well might have complained about the sorry state of American baseball, I guess. Well, I personally haven't but my son slogged through that course-work at University, and yer right, it was no... picnic in the park with Little Lord Fauntelroy. Not to mention the cost of text-books, which I was privileged to help pay for. Also, I assumed that Col. Gen. Guderian had enough good sense not to CURSE all over our famous SC boards in that other thread, but, in this instance, I guess the "higher Irish academic sensibility" had no... significant influence on him. Wrong again!

I read this comment and thought to myself, hmmm, this guy can't be an American student, there are too many tough requirements in there and no way to blame somebody or something other than yourself. Probably can't sue anybody frivolously neither. Sure enough, I checked, and it is green old island Ireland that has these tough requirements. No surprise... Europe still requires some personally accountable studying and learning and comprehension of something other than blick-blook I'm a rude-boy Dude, or rip rap or, slash the tires of the teacher who dares! make you study 10 minutes each day. Good luck on them exams. Then again, for you it's likely not a matter of luck, but... pluck. We used to have that here too, oh, a long, long time ago.

A rose by any other name, Is still a rose. When I read "mechanized" I do not think ONLY of half-tracks and armored cars churning up the battle soil. I also think of soldiers in trucks and other conveyances. One might quibble about the intended German or English OOB translation meanings of "gruppes" and "mechanized columns." Regardless, when you can MOVE (... by way of APs, or "action points") a specific distance that is more than what your opponent can, at the moment, move... then you are happily immersed in a tricky and thoroughly enjoyable... game. Mechanized? Motorized? I will imagine that blitzing column of corps to be carried to devil-take-the-hindmost! confrontation... in a mixture of cars and trucks and tracks and gun-platforms and tractor-like haulers.

FWIW, I would agree with those who say that Hurryin' Heinz Guderian SHOULD BE on ANY GS WW2 Important General's roster. Without him, you may not have had the "blitz" in blitzkrieg. At all. Ever. Wouldn't have happened in Korea, too frigid and unpredictable. Wouldn't have happened in Viet Nam, too jungle closed in. You needed them... wide open spaces, like the never ending steppes of Russia, to fully appreciate what Guderian and a few others meant for the tank to accomplish. You cannot merely say that So & So the CoCd (... "chain of command dandy") should be on there BECAUSE he commanded an Army at some point. Some Field Generals/Marshals commanded their Army in the same sense that... Grand-Ma commanded her weekly sewing circle... with a lot of smiles and delicate gestures, but... not much in the way of die-hard results. Guderian MUST be in... IMHO, but of course! ... oh yeah, and MINIMUM rating of 8. Maybe a 9.