Wolfpack

Against a PBEM opponant your strategy would deplete France's already low MPP allowance, since he'd be able to send a few units off to take your far flung areas. But then, he has to figure out you did it I guess huh? I just tried holding out and doing the northern invasion (Historical Italian entry, +1 exp) I managed to hold him out of the Low countries for 2 turns, got the BEF killed after they moved in to take over for the Belgian corps, my ships got absolutely slaughtered by his air power...he was hitting for 5 regularly...even after I moved some of my Med fleet up to help out. I did manage to hold out in France until November, once again because of his fixation on the Maginot, but he snuck past Marsailles and worked his way up the coast with an Italian army which I could do nothing to stop since every bit of cash I had was going into rebuilding my forces. It was a battle of attrition, and the Germans won. By the time he took Paris, I had bled him pretty well, but I was in such bad shape that he would have had no worries from me for a good long while. I was faced with the prospect of rebuilding my navy and air force, or building an army, no possible way to do both. My northern invasion pulled off exactly one German armored unit that summarily kicked my rear back out after my BBs decided to start shooting blanks at him when he came up. Personally I think that if I'd used those units to invade Norway, I would have been better off. My bomber was completely useless because of the German's superiority in fighters, so I could have used it, a couple of cruisers that weren't doing much, and about 2 corps to invade Norway, get the extra MPPs, which would help hold out in France, plus perhaps let me build up a little reserve to occasionally buy an extra unit or two. Holding out for Russian entry would be a nice thing, but there aren't any guarantees about a time frame for that...besides, then you'd condemn most of Europe to fall behind the Iron Curtain...and I just can't have that.

Well, just that I'd never seen it do that, usually it concentrates on the ports, like Hubert said, it goes for the easy pickings. True enough to a point. It's not like I just let him stroll in and take Paris or anything, I fight, I just don't risk units that are irreplacable in the near future for little or no gain when they can be better used elsewhere. I think it would work even better against a human as long as they didn't know what to expect. I never fail to take the Low Countries on turn 1. Unlike the AI who will dither around trying to kill that forward unit instead of going for the kill. And holding France against a human is going to be tougher too since most probably won't get the fixation on reducing the Maginot like the AI tends to do, so will have a better ability to push through in the North. But, that's just my thought on the matter, I plan to get a PBEM going tonight hopefully once my friend figures out what he's doing. We're pretty evenly matched when it comes to any wargame, we tend to split them pretty close to evenly, from CM to our few games of War in Russia, which is a great head to head game. I have high hopes for this one also. I think my strategy would work better for the long term, but in a one year war, I can see where yours would probably be a better one. What you should try is setting Italy to historical entry and see how that affects it. I'd like to see how it goes. As a matter of fact, I'm about ready for my 6th or 7th game tonight, I think I'll try it myself. [ May 22, 2002, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Wolfpack ]

Which is exactly why I don't leave any UK troops in France, you're going to lose France unless you get incredably lucky, and losing the Low Countries is offset by my taking Spain or Norway. England can't afford to rebuild units from scratch, they need too many things to make a go of it. That's why I pull it all out and leave the French to hold their own line. Usually I can make a fight of it through August or so, just making sure that I withdraw if I have to to keep a solid line and not allow flanking movements that will trap me. Last game I took Finland and Sweden before France fell, and was within one hex of taking Finland when it ended, I was pulling in about 210-215 MPPs a turn, and the Baltic was a British lake. Of course, the U.S. intervention rating was down to 1% too. I was surprised Russia's didn't drop when I invaded Finland, I figured they wouldn't like that too much. One thing I'd like to see is for the Italian navy to be a bit more agressive when it comes to hunting down the British navy. They can do it without too much risk, but they seem to be really lethargic for some reason. I had most of my navy down around Malta, and never even got a peek of an Italian ship. Next time I may just pull them out and use them to see if I can't make an invasion of Finland and Spain at the same time...should be interesting. Another thing I noticed in the last game was that instead of bombing my ports when they took France out, the Germans were going after my corps in London. I wonder if they were contemplating Sea Lion since I had pretty much my entire North Sea navy off around Sweden and Finland except for a 2 strength cruiser I couldn't afford to repair. Would be nice to see an AI that would at least have a chance to try it, I haven't seen one yet with the cajones to go for it, and I really stripped England bare.

I'd like to hear some strategies from the allied POV. It seems most people are playing the Axis, which isn't surprising since you can generally do more with them in the limited time available, but I've really gotten a kick out of playing as the Allies (Well, the Brits and Canadians anyway, nobody else ever gets involved before the time is up except the Yugoslavs.) And none of those "I held out in France the whole time...I know you can do it, but it isn't easy when you put it up over default settings. (The experience switch really does the trick. Nice work on that feature) Generally, I start off being a crappy alliance partner because I move all the air units to England, and evacuate the BEF as soon as the Germans start to crack the line, I'd rather not rebuild, so this helps a lot. I usually mass the southern French and UK navies to take out at least the Italian fleet at Taranto as soon as they come into the war. Taking out that sub is important since I need every MPP I can lay hands on. I also actively hunt down the German subs...usually they come out to play, so it isn't hard. After France has fallen, I look at what's left in the Med (If anything, the Italian fleet can really be a bear to try and take out) and in the North Seas. I figure out where I have the best chance to do some damage, either Norway (Pretty easy to take) or Spain. I've also had a game where I was able to throw a couple of armies and corps into Yugoslavia when they declared for me, which was nice. Spain is a nice choice since it opens up a (small) link to France that you can use once Spain is secure. Downside in a full game would be delaying U.S. entry. If I go after Norway, I usually knock Sweden out too while I'm there, but this has the same downside as Spain. I rarely have to do much in N. Africa, the Italians seem to show no inclination to rebuild their Empire, and the Germans show even less to help them. That's pretty much all I ever have time for, but I have some ideas about how I'd go about things further along. I think I'd be more inclined toward Churchill's strategy of a two pronged attack, into Norway and in the Med, but I'll have to see how the full game is. Heck, I'd pay for it right now if they let me play with the full beta. (hint hint)

Not sure about the MPP level, but I had a default game as the Axis where I ended up with (In the order they fell) Low Countries, France, Vichy, Malta, Spain, Portugal, Gibralter, Alexandria, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Greece, Bulgaria, and Turkey. Romania and Hungary joined the cause, as did the Finns when Russia invaded after I declared war on Turkey.

When this happened to me, the unit from Algeria was whisked away to Italy...are you sure it isn't sitting around up there somewhere? Edit - Hubert...while on the subject, why does it go to Italy? Sometimes that kind of hurts, since the time it happened to me I had a HQ, corps, and army that were sent across the Med. That pretty much took my entire N. African army out of the picture for a couple of turns...shouldn't they just go back to the closest N. African city? [ May 22, 2002, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Wolfpack ]

Well, I can tell you one huge difference that alone would mean me buying it. Improved AI over COS. COS AI was horrible, and never gave me a good game. Another nice thing about this one is unlike COS, you aren't forced to buy only the historic units. You want to waste a ton of money on Carriers as the Germans? Have at it, unlike COS where you could only field this many panzers, this many subs, this many carriers, ect, ect.

Then you must have gotten your unita a ton of experience for a small number of units to cause that much damage. My problem is that while taking Malta isn't absolutely necessary for a successful invasion of Egypt, it is helpful, and if you do it before taking Egypt, your units generally won't have that much experience, and therefore the forces you used would likely get worn down with no result. Generally, when I bombard from ships, I kill about .5 points ber bombardment (1 in 2 will hit for 1 point) and take on the order of 2.5 - 3 damage in return, which isn't a good exchange rate. My air units rarely hit until I get their exp up a lot. I've gotten used to not doing full reinforcements now so their exp will build faster, and that does help. I really think air power is pretty well modeled in the game. It's hard to do crippling damage to an attacking unit, which is as it should be, but it is possible to take out an opposing air force. The fort on Malta just makes it very hard to do that. And the issue with the resupply. What I'd really like is a longer demo so I could really get into the research and see what kind of effects some of them have. Best I've done in one game so far is +1 on industrial tech and +1 on heavy tanks. I'd like to get into the air research and MLRS and see what it does. The rockets look like they'll only really be useful later, +1 does triple the attack rating, but I doubt that rate of improvement stays constant. As for Subs, I like how the improvements increase the chances of diving and evading...and considering the surprise issue with them, it looks like getting this research area up is a big help to the Axis. Hubert or Ted if you read this, something I've been wondering, does more than one sub in a sea lane cause greater MPP losses? My subs are consistently killed because they'll suprise a unit, get in a good hit, but then get swarmed by every unit on the oceans invariably, and trying to get my naval units out of the Baltic is plain suicide, so I've never had more than one out there at a time. [ May 22, 2002, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: Wolfpack ]

Ships in harbor can be attacked and killed by land units...I would assume this would be a force storming the ship and scuttling it, or just setting up some arty to pummell it...not sure, but it works for me. Makes you remember not to leave your ships in a harbor when the enemy is about.

My general rule for taking Malta is that it's going to require at least 9-11 air fleets. :eek: I had to be at work by 6 this morning, so of course, instead of going to bed, I decided to stay up all night playing SC. Needless to say, I got a few games in. Unless you have incredably experienced air fleets, taking out Malta with less than 10 air fleets is nearly impossible. Being attacked by hordes of enemy fighters gets the brit squadron a ton of experience, which appears to make it even harder to hit. Every time I managed to take it, it was by loading up Sicily, the toe of Italy, and N. Africa with air fleets and surrounding Malta with the Italian fleet. The ships attack first and I hope to bring the strength below 5 or 6, then I use all my fighters...I think I took it out with the last plane all but one time, and that was with the second to last. One advantage of this tactic is that as soon as you capture Malta, you have plenty of air power to race through N.Africa, capture the Balkans, wipe out the RAF, and invade Russia all at the same time. Of course, there is the whole thing about making yourself spend 4000 MPPs on air power. I also noticed that there's a cap of 10 research points that you can purchase. Any particular reason for this Hubert? I suppose if you're far enough ahead to get that many, it's unfair to get more, but on the other hand, if you're that far ahead and lose, you're hopeless anyway, and you'll need the extra help. Also, is the actual research chance a % or is there some formula? I've gotten Industrial production lvl 1 once with Italy after only one turn with one point invested, and gone most of the year with nothing to show for 5 points invested as Germany. Edit - Perhaps one way to make Malta a little easier to crack (In the war, the Axis could have [and should have] taken Malta without having what I assume would be thousands of planes strafing the airfields) would be to lower the amount of recovery the garrison gets. I was constantly irritated by me getting the squadron down to 1 with my last attack only to have him reinforce to 8 next turn. It was definitely NOT an easy thing for the British to reinforce Malta during the war. They nearly decided to abandon it at times because of the supply difficulties, and that without a real concerted effort by the Axis to take the island. [ May 21, 2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Wolfpack ]

Well, my first try on default settings, I took out France by mid July, then invaded Vichy. Took the rest of france in one turn, and had the Italians move into and capture Algeria with the help of the navy. Invaded Spain and took it, Had to transfer half my army to Poland to take out Yugoslavia since they decided to be unfriendly. Took Gibralter, then the demo ended. Played as the Allies and was holding out in September on the French border, but then it crashed. The one problem I've had with the AI so far is that, while it really does well in the beginning as the Germans keeping units alive and combining attacks, once you damage the units a bit, he spends too much time reinforcing and doesn't take enough chances to really punch some holes in my lines. I held out in Belgium until mid august because I moved my BBs down and bombarded his units on the coast, so they would go doen to 8 or so and reinforce, thereby losing their attack, so he was only getting one shot at Belgium each turn. That one attack usually took the army down to 3 or 4 so another attack probably would have been enough to take him out. This happened a lot, where he would only attack with one or two units because one was lowered a couple of points, instead of risking a third attack and really having a good chance to kill my armies instead of just wounding them so they could reinforce next turn. Other than that, I'm really enjoying the heck out of it...this is #1 or #2 on my "to buy" list. (Depending on whether this or CMBB comes out first.)

Heck, count me in. I haven't played any PBEM or even CM for that matter for so long that "gamey" might be the only chance I have to win one. Work is slowing down finally so I should be able to get some in.

While all that is true, I rarely play the allies anyway...just more fun for me to take out the "little worms". Plus, for some reason, I cannot get any of the slow down programs to work on my computer at all. I know a bunch of people who use moslo, and love it, so if it works for you, cool, but I can't get it going here. I've never actually seen the bug list for 1.1, I knew the one with Russia, which was a bit annoying the first time I tried it...now I remember why I never tried it again.

Hmmm...I have DLed the Future edition, changed the .exe to allocate 9MB EMS, and applied the patch (tppatch). Still getting the runtime error. Any ideas? Thanks, Preacher</font>

I don't use a boot disk but in order to get COS to work on Win XP you must set the EMS memory allocation on all exe files to about 9mb (i don't now the minimum but 9 works) and run a program to edit the cos2.exe. The program can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clashofsteel/ under files. The filename is tppatch.zip and fixes an old turbo pascal command used in the game (that gives you the 200 error)</font>

And it's available at the-underdogs.org

For me, since I've started playing Clash Of Steel again, it's the lack of a set group of units to buy and hopefully, a much improved AI...and the much better looking map doesn't hurt either.

The only Peep War I've ever seen was when my college roommate and I found a box that had been in the cabinet for approx. 2-3 years...You know, those things get really hard after a few years of shelf time.

I believe the answer was some kind of RAM limitation. He's got it maxed out as it is, which is why there isn't more room in the desert also.

I agree that on paper, the Chaffee is the best light out there, but in practice, I've had much better luck (key word here being luck) with the Stuart. Best result so far would be a night battle when I lost 3 of my Shermans early to a Hummel. My opponent had a small army of armor massing for a push. (2 Pz-IV, JPz-IV, the Hummel, and a STuH) Well, my AT resources had been hunted down and killed quickly, so all I had left was my little Stuart. Feeling suicidal, they went and charged around a little copse of trees and drove right through the gathering. By the time the turn was over and they had circled around the trees again, they had killed both Pz-IV and the STuH. Feeling lucky, they continued around the woods next turn and once again ran through the now burning wreckage. End result, 5 enemy armored vehicles dead, 1 Stuart being followed by the curses of my PBEM opponent as he scooted back to friendly lines. The Stuart is a good tank to get out of trouble in. It's fast, and the rate of fire is high enough to make the enemy keep their heads down. That one definitely earned his CMoH that night.

Well, like I said before, it would be an optional feature, like random country policies that are in the game. I just think it would be nice to be able to check a box and not know that Manstein or whoever was going to be great. Not that the lack of this is going to make me less likely to buy or anything.

Ah well, perhaps for a future version.

bump

Are there any plans to be able to randomize leader ratings? I think my favorite strategic game of all time is still No Greater Glory the old SSI American Civil War game, and one of it's high points for me was the ability to randomize leader attributes so you didn't know what generals would work best for you. I know this game is going to have leader ratings out in the open so to speak, but still, being able to randomize leader abilities would add some replay value to the game instead of automatically knowing that certain generals are going to be the ones you want to use. It would be a bit more interesting to see Clark or some of the other lesser generals have a chance to be your war winners rather than seeing the same people popping up in the same places all the time. Plus, having to work with a limited number of good leaders (If your randomization rolls went horribly wrong) would be an interesting challenge.

I can see both sides of it, and if it was an option rather than a replacement for VLs, it would be nice. As for having the battle determine the key areas of the map...that would be great. Something like Civil War Generals, where if a particular section was repeatedly fought over, it became a VL...I always liked that feature.