Marlow

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: Marlow, damnit, he can't be a squire 'till he's a serf and he ain't a serf 'cause he hasn't posted anything of note HERE! If he wants to be IN the CessPool, then by Gawd he'd better post IN the CessPool. Now granted the quote was pretty good, but we MUST HAVE SOME STANDARDS or we'll have more people like ... well ... Panzer Leader. Joe [ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Joe Shaw ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Comrade Jo, There can be but one response to you …PTTTBBB! CDplayer has posted more of worth in the Cesspool than many so called Kaniggets, and is worthy of being my Toady … er … Squire. Exhibits as follows: Exhibit 3) <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: Originally posted by Germanboy: 'Er ist kein Mensch, er ist kein Tier, er ist ein Panzergrenadier'. He's not a munchkin, he's not a tyre, he's an anti-tank grenade??? WTH is that supposed to mean?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Very nice. Has a Mehschish ring to it. Exhibit H subpart 1) <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: Finally, in the unlikely event that anyone is still reading, I find myself undergoing a bizare shift in perception after following this thread for a while. I'm more and more impatient with the discussions out on the main boards. Reading stuff like 'how should I best use my Archer?' and crud like that I just want to shout 'point it at the godd*** enemy and SHOOT fer cripessake!' 'But how should I position it on defence?' they ask. 'If you don't want the other guy to see it, HIDE IT BEHIND SOMETHING!' I mean can it be sooooo complicated? Nuff said, I'm done reporting for now, to your mild relief I imagine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Lack of patience for Boardie crap. Definatly a change worthy of note. Exhibit III(: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: Speaking of smileys, what the heck is this one ----> supposed to mean? It looks like something that's probably still illegal in the State of Utah. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Bonus points for the slam on Utah So, Red Jo, what say you to that? And what is all of this stuff about having to be a serf first? Who died and made you Chairman? The rules of the 'Pool, such as they are, only require that a Squire be sponsored by a Kanigget, and more importantly, that the Keeper of the Holy Tome approve of that appointment. Keep you little power play to yourself, Jo Xia. In other words, NO COUP FOR YOU! [ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer in the wasteland of the outerboard: What kind of a CMplayer am I? What I do is, I figure out where the bad guys are, move my stuff so the pointy ends of the cannons are facing towards 'em, and then I start pulling lanyards, triggers, pins etc...then I go get the xtra good headphones from the stereo and watch the movie about thirty times. Luckily I have the 'tank girl' interface mod otherwise I probably would have lost interest in CMplaying a long time ago. Just kidding. Actually, on the attack, I prefer to ATC the FOPs which I KIA with OBA or SAF then proceed to the MLR which requires some NTM to OR if it don't go FUBAR or Candy Bar. And I usually win.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeoman work my young CDplayer. You have brought light to the darkness and hope to the heathen boardie masses with this post. Sir Lorak, I reclaim ownership of the young Squire [CDplayer's soul.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis: In no way was I indicting you on being slow. However, since you apparently have a reading comprehension problem in addition to feeling the need to restate the obvious, then perhaps I should speak to you in terms your Dr. Doolittlish brain can comprehend? oooohhh oooooohh ooooookkk ahhh aHHHH AHKKK AHKKK AHKKK. OK then, as I swing back into the trees clutching my banana {insert snide comment here}, I shall remind you of thing. You are an ape descended life form. Which makes the monkey your daddy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My poor misguided MonkeyBoy, you are obviously the product of a public school education (as an aside, doesn't Maxipad list "educational field" as his occupation [shudder]). Man and monkey both evolved from a more primative common ancestor. This does not mean that monkey is man's "daddy," but rather his brother. Since you appear to be the type of person who probably rode to the above mentioned public school in a short bus, let me further explain by way of analogy. Start with a fairly primitive species such as the "Englishman." He originally descended from more primitive species such as the "Norman" and "Saxon (more commonly known in the modern era as the "Frenchman" and "Swede" among others primitive types). This "Englishman," and his "Scotsman" kin in turn led to many of the advanced specimens that are found in the modern world. The Americans and Australians for example. So, monkeys and man are kin in much the same way as Americans and Australians (with the Americans representing the more civilized and intelligent of the pair). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis: oooohhh oooooohh ooooookkk ahhh aHHHH AHKKK AHKKK AHKKK. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You should use that for your SIG line. [ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: [ On other fronts I'm [shudder] sorryfor biting Marlow's proffered hand. Hear that everybody? Good Sir Marlow, I just get in that mood sometimes being the poor sinner that I yam. Anyway I believe I only nipped the pinky just a little. I hadn't eaten all day and it looked like a big piece of surströmming hovering before my jaws. It's not infected now I hope? Now I've got to sign off for present, as this is all the niceness and politeness I can muster without having to scream get the bucket!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Apology accepted my boy, now how about a bit more groveling? Also, my boots are a muddy from walking about in all this Cess (not to mention what's left of Lawyer's defenses), give em a good shine? That’s a good boy.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dalem: Gettin' near the bottom of the page, people. Pretty sad when we're relying on the likes of Juardis to keep us in fighting trim.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> OK, then let me make my contribution to keeping it at the top with telling the world about how I cleaned the hedgerows with your no good, hegemonic American scum. That's right ladies and gentleworms, the Forces of Marlow were once again victorious over the earless wonder. Sir Lorak, please note: Marlow stunning victory dalem inglorious defeat It was the Byte Battle called "Bocage to St. Lo" or somefink. My valient German Paras not only managed to knock out three of the attacking armored horde, and route the accompanying battalion of infantry, but actually managed to counterattack on his flank. Push em back into the Sea boys!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis: But....given that you like your squires uppity, unproven, disrespectful, and virgin like, well...I suggest you take the lad as your squire <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't think so. This Pillock is bloody useless. CDplayer on the other hand, shows some promise, he just needs a little seasoning. We'll just have him shipped off the the Isle. Newbia where he can study the Tomb of Peng in peace and solitude.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Something called a Dweezil44: Some tiresome crap about Panzer Leader<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What the hell is a "dweezil," and why are there 44 of them. One is obviously too many. Listen, pissant, Pee El may be occasionally annoying, but he has his good points. Like ... or .... well I'm sure their is something good about him. But he is a part (however useless) of the Cesspool. You on the other hand, don't seem to get it. By the tone of your post, you really don't seem to understand the purpose or rules of the Cesspool. If you want to read the rules and try again, by all means give it a go ... no ... better if you just SOD OFF. Please go somewhere else, you are not wanted. [ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]

Oh, and to answer the original question, try this: All you ever wanted to know about Peng, but were afraid to ask

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PawBroon: Most, if not all, of the posters are Meeks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mr. Pawbroon, May I call you Broonie, I don't think you are Meeks (AKA Penguin Scat). Rather, I think you are Mensch after he drinks too much Bordeaux.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: Who, or should I say, what the feck are you, oh 'Marlow'? Is that a contraction of 'Marshmallow'? Or are you a relative of your namesake, Marlowe: Steamboat Willie of the Congo? Or are you just something inrupted by dyspepsia into my afternoon nap?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As much as I hate to admit it Jo you may be right. This CMplayer is indeed to green to be a Squire. Not only does he not know the traditions and history of the 'Pool, but he is obviously not well read. Anyone with half a brain knows that Charlie Marlow's name is spelled without an "E" at the end. Sir Lorak, it is with great sadness, that I throw this one back to the SSN wading septic tank.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red Jo: By GAWD I say NO, NO Lorak. There is just too much deviation (sit down Bauhaus) going on around here. The PROCEDURE, Marlow, is to FIRST make an SSN a Serf and THEN to have him taken to squire BY A WORTHY KNIGHT, since YOU asked for him that clearly violates THAT rule. Damned jumped up SSNs automatically being made squires ... it's just NOT RIGHT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There you go making rules again. I'll have you know that we're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We don't bow to some mamby pamby self styled "prosecuter" thinks the world should be. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical quasi judicial ceremony. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> MrSpkr ... let us UPDATE our file on Sir Marlow ... yes, yes, I know but I at least will observe the formalities and spell his name correctly. Yes I know he shows NO RESPECT but we can only do the right thing and hope that our example leads others to the right way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> MORE RULES!!! When will the madness end! [ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis: - SIGS SUCK!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey, you should use that for your SIG!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agua Perdido: Finally! Lorak, I say we add 'im to the list of pissboys. Agua Perdido<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, Sir Lorak, add him to the list of Squires. Since Comrade Jo Xia and MrSpnkr have already lowered the standards for said office with their recent appointments, why the hell not. Besides, he is the only other one in this God forsaken place that made it into the GROG tourney: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: Now don't any of you lot even THINK of challenging me to a pbem. I don't have time for you cheap gamey bastiches now that a REAL TOURNEMENT, with REAL CMPLAYERS is coming up! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Plus he is from Sweden, and even though it is a liberal-pinko-commie-socialist country, it is a pretty nice place. A final bonus is that it should shut up Pee El and the "My Buddy" stuff. Now, Rett as my first act as your new Lord and Master, from this day on, you will refer to the former "Joe Shaw" (obviously a pseudonym to fool the masses) by his true name Jo Xia, who aims to overthrow the feudal/anarchy state of the MBT with his constant "investigations" and impose order on the Cess. You have been found out Jo. [ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]

Jason, have you even been reading what I have been saying? If you look at my first post: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>While I happen to agree with your basic premise that an MG 42 should go through ammo faster than other MGs because of its rate of fire, I have to disagree with your 70 lb weight limit. It depends on what you mean by "in combat." If you are refering to actions under enemy fire I agree that extra weight (i.e. rucksack) is dumped. But, poor Joe rifleman commonly carries a lot more than that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I simply find your "70 pound limit" to be false. Of course soldiers drop a significant part of their junk when the bullets start flying, but please don't tell me that 70 lbs is all that a grunt can practically hump, because you are flat out wrong. As far as photo evidence goes, most pictures are not of guys on road marches. As stated above, the packs get dropped when it gets hot. One that I have seen recently is of troops headed down the road in the Ardennes. At least a few of them have large humps on their backs under their snow camo. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> An M-1 weighs 11 lbs loaded, not empty, and the basic load was not 100 rounds, only 64 plus the ones in the gun, and the rounds are lighter than modern 7.62mm. They commonly carried only 2 frags. That is well within your 20%; at most it might be 2 lbs over. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> OK, so if the basic load for the M1 (being the amount that soldiers actually carried, rather than some "peacetime quartermasters" estimate, why do you have a problem with the current ammo numbers for a U.S. rifle squad (64 rounds) compared to a German SMG squad (210 rounds standard). Well, maybe the REAL standard ammo load for the U.S. rifleman was just a little more than 64 rounds you mention. In any event, I only used the 100 rounds at 7 lbs as an estimate. BTW, why would 30.06 weigh less than 7.62? Just curious. [ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: "I was only attempting to show that your "70 pound" limit is a myth." Then your reaction to the actual figure presented by a vet, who was moreover carrying ~400 rounds more than a basic rifleman's load, is a rather weak "maybe so". Some myth; it is only supported by what the men actually carried, as opposed to what peacetime quartermasters dream they might.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Please. Peacetime or not, I've carried over 100 lbs in the field for prolonged periods of time. Is it fun? certainly not. I well know the feeling of shouldering a ruck and thinking "how in the hell am I going to carry this thing." But guess what? we did. No myth, just experience. Also, you fail to address my "facts" that in Desert storm and Panama, loads in excess of 100 lbs were carried into combat. Please stop using only the facts that suit you purpose. Also, you are constantly underestimating weight. For the M 16 you said 12 lbs for rifle and basic ammo load, instead of the accurate figure of 15. Now you say 15 lbs for an M1, ammo, and grenades. The M1 weighs 11 lbs, grenades a pound apiece, and the ammo somewhere around 7 lbs for 100 rounds. So, again you are more than 20% off.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: Nobody seems to have paid any attention to my direct quote from one of the guys that was there, that what they actually humped in WW II was 60 lbs of stuff, counting clothes, pack, helmet, e-tool, etc. Nobody accepted my challenge to line up all the ducks, and apply their weight guesses to all the other teams, not just their favorite band of pack mule ubermenschen, the HMG-42 teammembers. So I will. Now we have people saying "of course ordinary infantrymen can carry 100 lbs, piece of cake". Then they will not object to every US MMG team carrying 100 lbs per man. Generously allowing 50 lbs for the supposed "basic combat load" in people's pet inventories (which I personally think quite a silly figure).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Very nice. Presented with facts, you attack. Pet inventory indeed. Why don't you provide, based on facts an alternative. There were very few items on my list that are not standard fare for an infantryman. You can maybe trim 10 pounds off the list for the total march load, but it will still be way over 70 lbs. In any event, my whole post has nothing to do with your machinegun crusade, and while it really is not a big deal to me, I tend to agree that the MG 42 has too much ammo. I was only attempting to show that your "70 pound" limit is a myth. Nice in theory, but does not stand up to the actual weight of all the things a soldier needs, nor does it stand up to scrutiny when real world combat loads are examined. Again, this is for modern riflemen, but the issues is not WWII vs. modern, but what is the load a soldier can carry. As far as the 60 lbs that the WWII vet quoted. Maybe he is right, but your own approximations of what various peices of equipment weighed was low as well. You underestimated what a M 16 with basic ammo load weighed by 20%. Additionally, he was a rifleman. Part of an infantry squad, that in the game moves fast, and has good endurance. We would expect that the load for a rifle squad member would be significantly lower than that of a MG crew. So if his load approached 60 - 70 lbs, how much would a MG crewman be carrying?

OK, here is a little more. I did a little more digging, and found accurate weights. One source is FM 21-18, Foot Marchs. This is what I used for most of the weights, supplemented by a few other FMs and TCs where necessary. Looks like I was light on my first estimate. On the soldier (fighting load) Helmet = 3.4 lbs LCE (Pistol belt, suspenders, first aid pounch) = 1.6 lbs Canteen, 1 quart, and cover with water (2 each) = 5.6 lbs Ammo case (2 each) = 1.8 lbs Bayonet, with scabbard = 1.8 pounds Protective mask w/decontamination kit = 3.0 lbs Rifle, M16A2 w. 30 rds 5.56mm in magazine = 8.8 lbs Magazines (6) with 180 rounds 5.56mm = 6.6 pounds (note the total for rifle and ammo is 15.4 lbs) Grenade, Fragmentation (4) = 4.0 lbs Grenade, Smoke (2) = 2.8 lbs BDUs 6.0 pounds Boots 4.2 pounds Fighting load = 49.6 lbs. This is what he has AFTER he drops his ruck. In the ruck (march load) Ruck (Alice, medium with frame)= 6.3 lbs (large is more common, and would weigh more) Rations, MRE (3 each) = 3.9 lbs (note I reduced this from 5) Canteen, 2-quart and cover with water (two each) = 9.4 pounds (take away one if you want to, but I would give up a lot of stuff before I gave up my water). Personal hygiene = 2.0 lbs Towel = 0.2 lbs Bag, waterproof = 0.8 lbs E-tool with carrier: 2.5 lbs Poncho, nylon = 1.3 lbs Liner, poncho = 1.6 lbs NODs = 2 to 4 lbs (without case. The case is often carried because these things are relatively fragile. Add 2 lbs.) Ok, so basic march load, without extra goodies is 32 lbs. (I used 4 for the NODs) So far we are at 81.6 lbs, and no squad equipment yet. (notice I removed the MOPP gear except the mask. Feel free to add another 7 lbs or more) Now lets add the goodies that a rifleman is expected to carry. LAW (M 72, the AT 4 is 14 lbs!) = 5.2 lbs M 18 Claymore is indeed = 5 lbs Trip flares = 1 lb That is 11.2 for a total of 92.8 lbs OK, now which of the following do you want to carry? PCR 77 (radio) w/battery = 22 lbs Spare battery = 5 lbs (this is from memory, and my be off) 100 rnds M 60 ammo = 7 lbs Field phone = 1.5 to 4 lbs M 60 spare barrel and bag = 8 lbs Tripod for M 60 = 20 lbs ? A roll of WD 1 = 10 lbs ? C-4 Binoculars = 3 lbs ? Mortar round = 3.5 for 60mm more for 81 mm Etc… It is easy to see that at least some of soldiers are going to get another 10 to 20 lbs. So the total for the poor grunt is in excess of 100 lbs. This is consistent with reports and articles I have read. There are reports from infantry officers in Desert Storm where entire infantry companies had loads that averaged over 100 lbs. In Panama, the Rangers jumped with loads (excluding chute) up to 120 lbs. Now I agree that these weights are well above what should be carried for good combat efficiency, but they are what they are.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: The ammo load is high by up to 3 pounds for the M-16; that was in fact the main point of it (12 rather than 15). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 8 pounds for the rifle, a pound for each magazine, add cleaning kit. I may be high, but I'm not so sure. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Two canteens weigh only 2 lbs apiece full. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The last time I carried only two one quart canteens will be the first. Water is critical, and there is usually a two quart or two in the ruck. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> A claymore weighs more like 2 lbs, not 5 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just looked it up. 3 and a half without kit bag. 5 pounds seems right on. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 4 grenades is more common than 6. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Four frags and some smoke seems the norm to me <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Not everyone has a LAW. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You are correct. The squad's grenadiers and SAW gunners don't, but most of the rifleman (what I am talking about) do. Sometimes more than one. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Above all, all the cloth items (clothes, personal, ruck, mopp, etc) do not weigh anything like 30 lbs, which is what you have for them. 15-20 is more like it - and the excess there is also the first thing dropped when shooting starts (mopp excepted if in a threat zone for that, these days). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You are correct about dropping stuff, and I may be a little high on my estimates, but I also left some stuff out. Helmet, e-tool, any extra ammo or personal weapons that grunts like to have around, latest copy of playboy, etc… So, I still think the total load is higher than you think. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> My experience was that those heaviest items are traded off in sequence to spread the fatigue around - typically starting with the greenest guy who gets to bust his nads first. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Except when he hurts himself, and the rest of the squad has to pick up the extras as well as his crap (been there, done that). As far as some of this stuff not being around in WWII, true, but a lot of the stuff that was, was heavier (radio, rifle, rations, etc...) [ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: Paratroopers board planes with 100 lbs on them because that includes their chutes. They sort of drop those when they hit the ground (along with other stuff if they can help it). That is more to keep equipment near them during the drop itself than for anything else. Men who carry 100 lbs across country in combat (as a few picked commando units tried in the Falklands e.g.) simply exhaust themselves. The 70 lb practical limit for all equipment is well known to military personnel, myself included. And in fact, men tend to avoid carrying even that much into combat, if they can help it, because it is very cumbersome, and excessive encumbrance kills people in combat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> While I happen to agree with your basic premise that an MG 42 should go through ammo faster than other MGs because of its rate of fire, I have to disagree with your 70 lb weight limit. It depends on what you mean by "in combat." If you are refering to actions under enemy fire I agree that extra weight (i.e. rucksack) is dumped. But, poor Joe rifleman commonly carries a lot more than that. OK, This is modern, and not WWII, and I'm going by memory so the actual numbers may be off a little, but I'm willing to bet it is in the ballpark. Weapon (M 16) and basic ammo load (7 mags. or so. This would be light in some cases) - 15 lbs A gallon and a half of water - 10 lbs NODs - 3 lbs LAW (this was the old M-72, newer stuff is heavier) - 5 LBS M 18 Claymore - 5 lbs Grenades (frag and smoke (6)) - 7 lbs Personal gear (personal hygene stuff, spare socks, poncho, poncho liner, etc… - 10 lbs MOPP gear - 10 lbs Uniform/boots/LCE/ruck - 10 lbs Food (5 MREs) - 5 lbs This is probably fairly standard, and comes to about 80 lbs. To this we add a squad member's portion of the common equipment. This could be represented by any number of things, for example: C4, radio, extra radio batteries, binoculars, field phone, roll of T1 for the field phone, MG ammo, MG tripod, barrel bag, etc ... Lets say 10 pounds to be easy on our poor rifleman, as it can easily go much higher. This comes to about 90 lbs, and this does not include other goodies that may be necessary for a grenadier or a SAW gunner (of course they would probably not have some of the other stuff that the rifleman has to shlep about, such as the LAW and claymore). Needless to say, when the bullets start flying, a lot of this stuff gets dropped, but it is carried by the soldier in combat conditions. Now for the poor paratrooper. Take this load and add 60 freaking pounds for the chute and reserve IIRC. Sure you lose the chute after the jump, but we are talking about walking around with better than 150 lbs as you cross the tarmac to the plane (not always a short trip). 70 pounds as a limit seems a little low.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: Ahhh, yes! But if we included your stove how would we computer the CP (Coffee Power) rating of it against the German KampfOfen? That is considering it can make coffee at a rate of 1200 cph (Cups per hour)! Whereas the american stove is only rated at 650 cph! Imagine how much MORE coffee the typical German soldier had to carry to sustain that much coffee output! This is unbelieveable! Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Your forget, Jeff, that the German soldiers didn't have real coffee by D-Day, and so he needed his higher CPH to compensate.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hanns:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuckd: So, exactly how does one go about using Flamethrowers correctly? Every single time I use them they just get smoked. Are they strictly a defensive ambush weapon or what? Any tips, grogs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In a city fight they can be great just light up an enemy occupied building, and once it catches fire, watch his men run into the street. Got an entire platoon this way one time. The Flamethrower itself didn't kill anyone, it was the rifles of the engineer platoon that did the actual damage.

To further call into questions the motives of one Comrade Jo Xia, we first examine the accusation: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Comrade Jo Xia: Aha! And here MrSpkr, just as we anticipated, we have the proof we need. HE ADMITS IT! And note you, MrSpkr that he compounds his guilt ... how you ask? Follow the logic, he is in it for the booze, the booze can only be won by ... THE BEST OF THE GROGS, therefore he, by his own admission, considers himself worthy to be called the BEST OF THE GROGS. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So, I stand indited of the crime of being a GROG. We then examine the profile for Comrade Xia: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>From the profile of Red Jo: Interests: Simulations, Reading, History <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Aha! J'accuse Jo. So there we have it. Jo Xia, Communist, teatotaler, and GROG. [ 08-27-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Comrade Jo Xia: Aha! And here MrSpkr, just as we anticipated, we have the proof we need. HE ADMITS IT! And note you, MrSpkr that he compounds his guilt ... how you ask? Follow the logic, he is in it for the booze, the booze can only be won by ... THE BEST OF THE GROGS, therefore he, by his own admission, considers himself worthy to be called the BEST OF THE GROGS. That I should live to see this day, that a CessPooler would ... my heart is ... broken. Joe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I admit nothing. I was merely pointing out that while the tournament itself is GROGGLY, the prize is worthy of a CessPooler. Perhaps you are not really anti-GROG, so much as you are anti-grog. Yes, Comrade Jo, I accuse you of being a teetotaling prohibitionist (again I point out the Utah connection). Your obvious intent is to turn the MBT into some kind of tea and cookies temperance society meeting. This is among the most serious threats to rise since … well … er … the last greatest threat. [ 08-27-2001: Message edited by: Marlow ]