OGSF

Aye, Ah hafta gae wi' tha Lizard Boy on thas wun. MacOberGruppen*Stompin*Fuhrer** ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Oooh yeah! Magua, please continue. I use your buildings, and this Normandy stuff looks superb, including the even newer buildings. Another vote to press on 'till completion. OberGruppenStompinFuhrer

Lorak, ye warrrm streak o' duck ****e...did ye nae see mah earlier boot recent post annooncin' mah topplement o' tha fiend Nijis? Scrratch at oop ain tha cesspool, af ye please. SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinScFeuhrerBastardABCD

Ah'm nae tae sure aboot thas place.....but important noos! A topplement has occurred, an which the sorry wretch Nijis has been dispossessed o' has three large VLs', an' laift wi' the small one, as is fitting. Sae Lorak, mark tha' oop ain tha tome wid ye.... OGSF WIN Nijis Whup-ass ain a plate. Den kannst du dir unter die Vorhaut klemmen! SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

I'm surprised this thread has lived so long. Okay, to clarify a couple of points which might help focus the discussion: 1. I am not complaining about the PSW getting whacked by the zook. It was a calculated risk running it into the rear of the attacking enemy. I might have clobbered an FO, as it was I got clobbered. Not the point here. 2. There were no other units of mine with LOS to the zook team. The first "crew?" and then the zook guys were American star icons, and then they turned into little men when the PSW approached them. I took this to indicate that the PSW was not only aware of them, but was the one that spotted them. So relative spotting is not a relevant issue here. The point is simply this. My PSW was in hunt mode, saw the enemy, and didn't shoot at them. So if I exploit a break in the enemy's line and drive my armour through the gap to create hovoc in the enemimy's rear, what command should I use? "Hunt" is obviously not the one. So what is? See? No whining about the PSW getting clobbered. No issue of relative spotting. No enemy armor encountered. Just troops. The PSW saw enemy troops and did not fire on them, even though in hunt mode. It did not see the zook, and the zook did not fire, until after the PSW has rolled past the "crew?" that was firing a pistol at it. This did not happen over a five yard advance, the PSW rolled along it's assigned path with all the care of a teenager on their driving test. I don't even care that the PSW fired it's guns and lived. A short burst of machine gun fire before it died would have been okay. I am just trying to understand how the hunt command is supposed to work, cos it appears to be different to what I had been thinking it was. OGSF

It was quite a long way, it had been in hunt mode for about two turns. And Jason, you got it straight like a dogs hind leg. Daytime, light fig, visibility way in excess of 150 yards. Distance to "crew" and bazooka team, under 30 yards. It was not buttoned until the crew fired their low ammo pistol at the armoured vehicle. The armoured vehicle buttoned and kept going. For the 7 months plus I have been playing this game, hunt meant "advance aggressively until contact is made, then engage". If the AVF buttoned, then it had made contact - no engaging though. The crew did not become visible until the AFV saw it - no other of my troops were in a position to spot it. So the only ones who saw it were the AFV - but no shooting. My point is this. The "hunt" command is useless if the vehicle don't hunt. If it sees the enemy and doesn't shoot, it isn't hunting. If it spots the enemy, which it did, then takes fire from the enemy it spotted, which it did, and doesn't shoot back - then it isn't hunting. If I want it to behave like that, I can use the "move" command. I could even reverse it towards enemy positions with the tank radio playing Wagner. If I tell it to hunt, I expect it to engage any enemy it encounters. This is probably related to the tweaks stemming from the Whitmann experience, as has been suggested. OGSF ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Aw noo, ya didnae get flanked did ye? Hoo did tha' happen? Mah armor didnae exploit a break through did at? Ye sorry wee bit o' moanin' sheep ****e...af'n ye hadnae let mae blow tha crap oot o' yer tank destroyers and shoot tha' giblets oot o' yer sorry arsed troops, Ah couldnae got tae ye rear, could Ah? A bit lak them gamey bastards tha conducted tha six week hikin' tour o' Frogland an' 1940. Af at's an mah kit, an' kin get there fraim here, Ah'll drive mah units where Ah leek. At's up tae yoo, ye pontificatin' fairey penguin, tae stop mae. Which ye did, ye gamey bastard, exploitin' tha weakness an tha AI whuch meant mah poor wee PSW 234/1 didnae shoot at a bloody thang tha whole tam ai were huntin' through ye underwear drawers. ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Someone around here can't win! If the AFVs attack infantry, they get killed by tanks. If they are programmed to only attack tanks, they get killed by bazooka teams. Seems that any enemy ought to be a threat, just varying priorities. If it sees a crew, and that is all it sees, then it shoots at the crew. If a bazooka team hoves into view - higher threat priority - new target acquisition. The reason the PSW was in back by itself, was because my opponent is attacking, and all that I could have expected to find were routed troops and FOs'. Unfortunately a routed bazooka team had recovered sufficiently to change it's underwear and shoot at my poor little PSW. The PSW should have been shooting up anything that moved. But it didn't fire a shot....just carefully followed it's hunt path until it died. I wonder if that's how the real war was won / lost. OGSF

I haven't seen this before and wonder if the AI is performing as it's Makers intended. I have a regular PSW 234/3 which has flanked the opponent and is in hunt mode approaching a clump of trees. All around is open ground with light fog (LOS 150+ yard). It encounters a "crew?" hiding in the clump of trees, about 20 yds away. The crew shoots at the PSW (*ping* *ping* *ping*) which continues to roll along it's assigned "hunt" course, it's only reaction being to button up. No attempt at all to engage it's antagonist. It continues to carefully follow the looping course asssigned to it, as a bazooka team at 30 yards distance fired three rounds at it. The third one kills it. Not a single shot fired in return by the PSW, which had all it's ammo BTW. I think the driver might have waved at the bazooka team as it made it's last course adjustment. I don't understand why it didn't engage the crew or the bazooka team - it was in hunt mode after all. A complete waste of an armoured vehicle and the skill which enabled it to flank an attacking enemy and penetrate the enemy's rear positions. I may as well have driven a bloody truck down there. Somebody do sumfink! PS In the same turn I discover that a two story building occupied by a couple of my squads is being shelled by artillery. And there is a smoke round smoking away inside the building on the ground floor. I haven't seen that before either - nope, not in 250 days of playing I haven't seen that either. What's going on? OberGruppenStompinFuhrer [This message has been edited by OGSF (edited 02-04-2001).]

At were nae pretty. Mah poor wee men kid feel at afore they even heard at. The deep, sonorous rumble o' tha Wermacht armour on tha move. All ailse were eerily quiet, tha wee furry beasts an' fowl o' tha air ha' fled - just the dreadful vibrations reaching through tha groond aintae tha bellies o' mah postrated G.I.s'. Thain tha squeakin' an' clankin' of metal, tha' gutteral shoot's o' tha feldwebels urgin' their men onwards, tha belchin' roar o' Porsche engines....tha first o' many black tipped snouts began tae rise fraim the green Spring grass on the gentle ridges ain front o' mah men. Leaves fraim tha birch and poplar trees showered down on tha tremblin' figures hunched ain their foxholes. Tha death an' awful violence o' fire an' steel were surely ainly seconds awah..... Or they would be, af'n tha' mangey stoat Hiram wid actually advance has units forward an' ontae tha field o' battle. But noo, he seems tae prefer nancy'in aboot ain tha back corners o' tha map, apparently clueless aboot hoo baist tae engage has forces wi' tha enemy (tha's mae). Mah boys are sleepin' ain shifts.... SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Grrreat festerin' ferrret livers! Sae Madmatt wants tae lock up every damn thraid we post in, includin' this un? Fair enough, at's nae mah board, at's his. Ah'm a wee bat surprised a' the approach o' throwin' tha wee bairn oot wi' tha bath water though. Af'n an individual as bein' a pillock, surely at's tha individual tha git's tha warnin' an' tha bannin'....nae thea entire clan. Sae, fer wha' at's worth, Ah wid be agreeable tae takin' tha Cesspool Thraid tae Croda's site. Ah wid still frequent thas board fer CM grog thangs, Ah luv tha game, but Ah wid be quite content tae be oot o' tha Moderator's hair - them tha' has some. One condition tho, Ah dinnae wan' any reference tae "Peng" an any title. At's tha "Cesspool", or at's crap. Af'n ye lookin' fer mae, Ah'll be at tha Croda site. SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFueuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Dinnae stay an there tae long, laddie, or ye haid'l cave in. SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Aww, tha's awfie nice o' ye lassie. At gavs mae a waaarrrm gooey feelin' all....MACE! GI' OFF AT YE MONGREL!! Noo, aboot tha' yappin' wee piece o' shaggy cow ****e, IskanderPandaBum! Sae, yer wantin' a severe drubbin', are ye? An' ye thank Ah'm tha mon wha' cud gav a hamster's wee puckered arrrse wha' ye want? Ah'm a wee bit busy, but seein' ye bleatin' an' garglin' on ye ain spittle ha' melted mah gentle heart. Sae send me a setup, ye piddlin' Cesspool puppy, an' Ah'll smack ye twitchin' nose aintae tha linoleum wi' mah copy o' tha Argyle Times. Anythin' ye like, but noo green or conscript bastards and let's keep at tae 1250 points or less. An' as fer savin' our wee island twice, ye took yer time aboot it on both occasions, an' Ah dinnae recall seein' your spooty arrrse runnin' around tha' place either. yer big girls blouse! SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Wheer dae Ah start? Elros, ye kin tak a wee dump, fall back an at, an sod off. Iskander, ye made mah laff a wee bit, jus' a wee bit meend ye - tha' bit aboot Mace an' tha ewe....actually at were tha lead pipe bit Ah liked.... Slapnuts, Ah thank ye a fine fellow....fer a grog, an' Ah have raid ye epistilations an tha main board. Af'n ye havin' a revolution, why are ye still here? At's feeble tae gae mincin' off tae have ye ain wee puddle o' puke, an' then tae stay aroond here pukin' yer tripe aboot dead-end bridges an' such. Ah've nought much ailse tae sae, except tae wave at Hiram an' a kinder, gentler way. Ah have turns tae return, ye knoo. Oh, Ah nearly fergo'.....tha rest o' ye kin bend doon, put yer haids between ye legs, an' sat doon quickly. You too Mace. SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

"Alas poor Yorick; I knew him, Horatio ~" At as mah pleasure tae announce a topplement, an' an mah favour too! Lorak ye knuckle-dragging keeper o' tha Tome, mark at as follows: OGSF - WIN Speedy - LOSS At were a Major Victory, 82 - 18, an' which Ah played as tha German's in Rune's excellent scenario - "Monty Advances". Nae too far as at turned oot. Aye, at's good tae be me! SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

FWIW, I agree that bunkers area way too fragile in CM. Thank you Fernando for doing some empirical testing. I have posted on this before. The Allies used special assault teams to take out bunkers, and the average time to kill a bunker with one of these teams was 30 minutes. This is after they have the system working efficiently with experience troops(refer Doubler, "Closing with the Enemy"). As a German player, I would take a Stug or Hetzer any day over a bunker. Yet my instincts tell me a bunker should be harder to kill than an AFV. The gun in the bunker gives up mobility in exchange for higher protection. I appreciate the bunker's ability to withstand artillery. But artillery will at best immobilize a Stug anyway. Perhaps bunkers only real vulnerability is against armoured vehicles, and rear shots from bazookas / flame throwers etc. In that case, it does come down to placement and support. But why did the Allies in Normandy not use Stuarts or Chafees or whatever as a routine way of dealing with bunkers, but developed infantry assault tactics instead? I recall that Steve mentioned that bunkers would be able to "button up" in CM2, which is a little more realistic than currently. A question I have for anyone able to answer, how common were bunkers outside of the Atlantic Wall and the Seigfeid Line? Cheers, OberGruppenStompinFuhrer ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

...several large Polish women with bad teeth approaching along the garden path, their eyes glistening with....

Here's my 0.02c. I am not the least bit interested in playing British vs British scenarios, or Polish vs American, etc. I am interested in WWII wargaming (amongst other things). I accept that others may have different interests. Personally, I am thankful that BTS have been quite rigorous in adhering to their vision for this GAME (capitals used for no particular reason). It is their vison which created the historical simulation we have today. Nobody else anywhere had the vision or courage to successfully try anything like it for the WWII period.. If maximum market penetration was an over-riding issue for BTS, CM would not exist as we know it. So if "fantasy sides" were incorporated as an option, it wouldn't confront me. If it was done to the detriment of the historically accurate wargame aspects (98%) of Combat Mission, I would be most disappointed. OGSF ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Wall Ah'm noo Seanachai, (Ah kin hardly spell at), but tha' literary reference starts off as: "Fi Fy Fo Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman, Be he live or be he dead, ......" Hoos tha', Jack? Meanwhile, "I love a sunburnt country, A land of sweeping plains, Of rugged mountain ranges, Of drought and flooding rains. I love her far horizons, I love her jewelled sea, Her beauty and her terror, This wide brown land for me." Happy Australia Day! SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Ah've just been oot on tha main board, an' at's a barren wilderness, Ah'll tell ye. Some more thraids ha' bin locked up tighter than a vicars daughter....mind yoo they wah stupid, but at disturbs me a wee bit tha' innocent stupidity is grounds fer lockin'. Af'n tha thread as crap, at'll die a natural death. Ah really dinnae like censorship....providin' certain standards o' civility an' language are maintained, Ah'd prefer tae see thangs run their course. But at's nae mah board as at? All Ah kin do as decide tae keep showin' up or no'. SirMacOberGruppenStompinFuhrer ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Wail tha' were tha easy answer, eh? Ah thank ye'll find there's a wee bit more depth tae it than tha'.....one way or another. SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Ah kin say nae more than this....Steve Negus an' Nijis are the same person, thang or place. Yer silly wee mon. (Och, thas as sae difficult....) An' noo tae mah worthy opponents...(Ah thank Ah'm gwinnae puke mah haggis...)...pray continue yer inturestin' an' talented game play. Ah thank Ah'll still eke oot a win, boot Ah'll respect yer efforts none-tha-less... Ah, Ah, ...*SirOGSF breaks doon sobbin' his poor wee heart oot....* At's nae good....Ah hate yer festerin' rat gnawed guts an' Ah' kin nae more be nice than an Sassanach kin be aw but pasty white an' palid. *sigh* *shudder* Ah feel a wee bit better noo....thas kindler gentle thing feels lak an unnatural fetter upon mah literary spleen. Mace yer feeble break through on mah laft flank cam awful easy didnae? Does tha suggest anythin' tae ye? One MG an' a flak gun an' in ye come, after ainly aboot 15 moves......ye forces remind me o' when mah spaniel spits oop...a small mess tae be cleaned oop, an' try no' tae touch it wi' mah bare hands. Speedy as takin' his complete an' utter thrashin' at mah noble and skilled hand in good stride. Af'n it is nae dead, at's burnin'. Cop tha ye basta... uh... mongr.. err...ne'er mind. Nijis as aboot tae launch what's laift o' has shattered forces in a suicide rush through a fleeting smoke screen. Ye knoo he's an trouble, when Ah mention he as the one defendin'..... Babra, afore Ah ferget, Ah loved the wee poem aboot the fert. Ah raid at tae tha wee Missuss, an' she smacked me wi' a kipper fer laughin' sae much Ah ferted. Ah wush she'd taken at oot o' tha tin first tho! StukaNukaPukaPants as a wee bat confused fer noo. He has taken tha VLs' wi' scarce opposition, an' all as quiet. Tha other boot will drop by an by. Hiram sent mae a move. Ah thank tha' deserves a mention. An' at's good tae see ham postin' an' tha 'Pool agin. Seanachai as occupied tha village wi' a stout Churchill tank overlookin' the affair. The other two Churchill's an tha Stuart have had tae gae back tae the shop fer repairs. But his lads are sittin' tight an the wee hooses an the town. Ah'm gwintae huff, an' Ah'll puff, an' Ah'll blooooooooo has hooses doon....one by one. Yer see af Ah dinnae. An' fer tha rest o' ye, please realize tha Ah mean thas an tha nicest possible way....*poot* Ye moderators kin hav a wiff o' tha as wail. SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem [This message has been edited by OGSF (edited 01-23-2001).]

Bastables keep ye haid doon mate, an' Ah'll continue taae kall ye upon ye rrreturn. And noo a point o' order. At has always been mah firm impression, tha' the denizen's o' tha 'Pool should ha' their profile correctly falled oot. Failure tae do sae wid result an a severe shallackin' an' a drummin' fraim tha Thraid. Ah read wun recent rrreport tha a noo bugger saae insignificant Ah cannae remember has monicker (sat doon Bauhaus) didnae ha' his address an his profile. Meeks, Ah put this on yoo, ye sorry sack o' chitlins'. Af ye supposed tae be custodian o' tha 'Pool, ye shud be checkin' such thangs. Yer a vacuuous (sic) waste o' space better occupied bah a waft o' methane gas. *begins strumming a 3/4 arppreggio* Luv mah tenderrrr, Luv mah troo, All mah draims fulfall, Oh mah bonnie, Ah luv yoo An' Ah alwas weeel..... SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD ------------------ You posture more than Marcia Brady with books on her head and you chatter like a dolphin near the fish bucket. - Dalem

Shrewd OGSF to Cesspool came; The old cock'd hat, the grey surtout the same; His bristling beard just rising in its might, 'Twas four long nights and days to shaving night: His uncomb'd grizzly locks, wild staring, thatch'd A head for thought profound and clear, unmatch'd; Yet tho' his caustic wit was biting-rude, His heart was warm, benevolent, and good. Speedy's gettin' a whippin', Seanachai as getting a tannin', Nijis as losin', Stuka as outflanked (news tae him), Mace has wandered off tae bugger sheep, Bastables as fergotten wha he's aboot, Meeks ha conveniently decided tae nae renew his beating in our gam of yore, tha stankin' wee bit o' boiled gristle. Tha rest o' ye kin kass mah spotty arse an' like at! (Tha wee lassies excepted o' course, they dinnae have tae like at...) SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuka: On the subject of wives, that marriage thing is only 2 weeks away for me now. Gulp! Say its not gonna hurt guys. Say she won't change and get all fat'n 'orrible. Say she'll still let me spend honking great wads of cash on computers, dirt bikes and beer. Its gonna be OK, right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Aye, at'll be alright. Ma wee bonnie Peggy an' Ai wi' ha' our feeve year anniversary this Saturday. Ye kin ferget aboot ye beer an' ye bikes, boot tha compensense as worth at. Gude luck Mon! SirMacOberGruppenBloodyStompinSicFeuhrerBastardABCD