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At the pace of the internet this is an old statement, but I've been thinking about it since (and before, just more so now).
On the natural born killers, this is a Hobbesian view.  We do not, and I do not wish to, live in a Hobbesian world.  Locke was much more accurate, and his views create a world worth living in - as it happens, his views strongly informed the US constitution (and others).  Both spoke of man in a natural state, before society takes hold, and while Hobbe's views have some traction - members of primitive societies live in constant fear of disease, starvation, and violence, the latter supporting Hobbes' "nasty, brutish and short" - overall Locke was correct.  
Having said that, if we summarize Hobbes' views, Russian society tends in that direction.  In this table we see echos and outright images of Russia under the Czars until and including now. 
 
Which leads us to the slippery slope.  The angle and length of that slope would, I think, depend on the starting point.  Further, if humans are natural born killers, more would shoot during combat. Modern training leads to a higher active rate in modern armies, but during WWII it was three out of ten doing the shooting, even after becoming combat veterans.
Rather than being natural born killers, isn't it reasonable to say that the horrors of war brutalize away natural restraints?  If the horrors are worse and the starting point worse, the slope is short and steep.  Perhaps Russian society pre-brutalizes residents. 
If the horrors are moderated (through training, medevac, micro-social structures aka "band of brothers", etc.) then the slope would be longer and shallower - allowing more time to catch soldiers before they slip right off the slope.
Or I'm talking out of my butt; but I like to think that my neighbours aren't ready to kill me because I don't cut my grass regularly.

The only answer that IMO makes sense is that we don't and can't know - we're talking about times so far away that there are hardly any sources to establish anything about the "culture" of these pre-people. A reasonable assumption would be to say that all the possible approaches and behaviors were tried and tested at some point. It would also be unreasonable to assume that what constitutes a behavioral norm was homogeneous across various groups - on the contrary, the more "primitive" people are, the more fragmented their culture is, as a rule of thumb. Even animals show behavioral differences depending on the group they live in, even though they might might be biologically identical.
Murder as an act, motivated by personal gain or whatever surely predates its intellectual conceptualization and an ability to describe it with language -  by millennia, perhaps by millions of years. So do some forms of war. As for killing being an organized, group undertaking directed inwards, why say a group wouldn't kill and eat the weakest, or otherwise chosen member in times of dire need, and have this behavior normalized (and we didn't even mentioned religion/ spiritualism...)?  Just an example, and of course oat the end of the spectrum the crabs in the bucket behaviour would lead to a group's swift disappearance - pure evolutionism. 
I'd say that philosophical deliberations about the intricate human nature are quite hard to fit in the narrative built on the basis of archaeological/ anthropological sources, especially if one would like to invoke classics who obviously couldn't be applied directly. At least I feel absolutely out of my depth here.

I'm not sure what I enjoy more about that poster; the typo, or the wildly inappropriate anthropomorphism.

At the pace of the internet this is an old statement, but I've been thinking about it since (and before, just more so now).
On the natural born killers, this is a Hobbesian view.  We do not, and I do not wish to, live in a Hobbesian world.  Locke was much more accurate, and his views create a world worth living in - as it happens, his views strongly informed the US constitution (and others).  Both spoke of man in a natural state, before society takes hold, and while Hobbe's views have some traction - members of primitive societies live in constant fear of disease, starvation, and violence, the latter supporting Hobbes' "nasty, brutish and short" - overall Locke was correct.  
Having said that, if we summarize Hobbes' views, Russian society tends in that direction.  In this table we see echos and outright images of Russia under the Czars until and including now. 
 
Which leads us to the slippery slope.  The angle and length of that slope would, I think, depend on the starting point.  Further, if humans are natural born killers, more would shoot during combat. Modern training leads to a higher active rate in modern armies, but during WWII it was three out of ten doing the shooting, even after becoming combat veterans.
Rather than being natural born killers, isn't it reasonable to say that the horrors of war brutalize away natural restraints?  If the horrors are worse and the starting point worse, the slope is short and steep.  Perhaps Russian society pre-brutalizes residents. 
If the horrors are moderated (through training, medevac, micro-social structures aka "band of brothers", etc.) then the slope would be longer and shallower - allowing more time to catch soldiers before they slip right off the slope.
Or I'm talking out of my butt; but I like to think that my neighbours aren't ready to kill me because I don't cut my grass regularly.

As an trained, though not practicing archaeologist, it is my (non-)professional opinion that the most important of the early pra-human's inventions was a pointy stick with which he could kill larger animals and defend himself, also from other humans. There would be no leaving the African savanna without this skill (and perhaps ability to make fire). From it follows that we were natural born killers way before we became what constitutes a homo sapiens. If one feels philosophical,  an interesting question is if learning NOT to kill each other allowed us to create civilization, or if it was the ability to coerce an kill others that made bigger social structures possible...
Edit:
On a related note, 2001: A Space Odyssey is the best movie ever made  
 
 

Well violence against the Other is the purpose of almost every military, it is the form, structure and regulations of that violence that is the issue.
While it is clearly possible for a social culture framework to be constructed to be supportive of brutal violence against Others - history is literally filled with such examples, I am not sure as to what level it exists within Russia itself.  There has been historical evidence (eg mass rape in occupied Germany) and contemporary evidence. However there is also counter-evidence such as mass exodus, particularly of the highly educated.  Further as has been expounded upon here on this forum Russian society is not homogeneous, so we may have a social dynamic as acceptable with some sections but less so in others.
I am also pretty sure that few are capable of an objective analysis of Russian society given the events of the last 8 month - internally or externally.  It is likely going to need further study once the war is over.
As to the effects of war crimes on the RA, I still argue the social dimension is unknown.  Obviously Russia is not some blissful peace loving nation and now it’s troops have gone all medieval.  However, Russian society as a whole is likely also not employing 10th century calculus to the problem either or we would be seeing much worse.  From a military dimension the effects of unregulated war crimes are likely akin to corruption itself, cumulative.  The logic of corruption gets pretty “anti-cohesive” pretty fast - “well the Col is screwing the Gen, so we can screw him over too”.  War crimes and overt brutality can be just as corrosive if they are pursued for individual interests over collective interests outside of a structured framework.
Beyond the question of military cohesion, war crimes are also highly counter productive in accomplishing military objectives themselves. The damage in the larger justifying-war narratives, the increased resistance effect on an opponent, waste of resources and the severe hit to credibility for any future negotiations is incredibly damaging to actually winning a war.  In this war they also translate directly into western support, and as upside down as the political level is in Russia they realize this as demonstrated by the ridiculous denial efforts.  No matter how hard it tries Russia cannot exist in its own bubble in 2022, and they know it.
In the end I suspect the overall effect of war criminality within the RA has not been a net positive - how much is a big unknown.  Externally their behaviour has been a complete disaster.  We are talking a UNSC member, P5 and G20 continually violating international laws of war - on a near daily basis.  A few anomalies are tolerated, so long as efforts are demonstrated to correct - what we are seeing from the RA in Ukraine is going to cost Russia dearly for decades. I suspect they will be on the bench next to North Korea for at least a couple generations at this rate - if they do not simply fall apart.

your argument gets undermined when you use the written language improperly.  Corrected that for you.  Now hold out your hand so I can smite your knuckles with this ruler.  (My 3rd grader teacher actually did that)

A couple of emojis would have fixed the whole thing...

Too soon man, too soon.  I am not sure jokes that end in "Russia was the victim all along" & "this is due to Ukrainian perfidy" are ready for prime time just yet. 
After a few days of "lets all stare and debate war crimes" kinda took the shine off for me.
I guess I missed the punchline...my bad.  Apologies all around.
 

Yes, your weird version of the holiday is bound to drive anyone nuts.  I mean seriously...on a Thurs?  I mean if you want a super-weekend just do Fri and Mon like a proper Catholic Easter and be done with it. 

Dude, seriously take a day off for your mental health.  You are starting to take some is this to what looks like an unhealthy level.*
I mean a half dozen RA soldiers may have gotten clipped during a possible-but-yet-to-be-investigated unrighteous shoot - and suddenly Steve himself is becoming a Russian appeaser?!  Like, seriously point to the sky for me because you sound like you are in a tailspin. 
*Edit - unless you were joking?  Hard to tell to be honest.

...
“Please imagine how Ukrainians understand negotiations,” former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko told the Council on Foreign Relations on Monday. “You are sitting in your own house, the killer comes to your house and kills your wife, rapes your daughter, takes the second floor, then opens the door to the second floor and says, ‘OK come here. Let’s have a negotiation.’ What would be your reaction?”
...

one hopes they will actually send it.  it will make the vote to declare them a terrorist organization that much easier.

Absolute peace on this.  I have stated repeatedly that this is a single incident that is in need of a thorough investigation...and then and only then can a determination of a war crime on either side be be made and charges laid for due legal process.  
Nor is this an indicator of wider UA behaviour as far as we have seen.  There was that one kneecapping incident - and I have no doubt there have been others because: scared/angry/tired kids + ammunition = **** happens.  So there is not inclination to blow this out of proportion here.
However, what is important is that the UA and Ukraine are seen and recognized as doing the investigation and follow up, as well as re-tightening rules of engagement etc.  That way they demonstrate that they are better than the RA by leaps and bounds.  Further, entry into NATO after this war is over will no doubt require closing these cases regardless.
Finally, why make Russia's life easier?  Gawd knows what people like Col Macgregor are going to to with this in those echo chambers out there.  Last thing Ukraine needs to question marks on their way of warfare from people already tired of hearing of this war, and losing interest in paying for it in the middle of a recession.  As Steve said - the second the west cannot tell the difference between Ukrainian and Russian behaviors, clearly, the whole damn gig is at risk.  
And then there is this.  I think it is very fair to say that we here on this forum and thread are very pro-Ukrainian.  We have been pushing back against the "Ukraine is doomed" from Day One largely based on tactical observation from the ground.  But we should not be blindly pro-Ukrainian, which frankly appears to be the direction some people want to go, and I for one do not support it in the least.
This is supposed to be a place where military experts, enthusiast and historical nerds can get together and observe this war through an objective lens and conduct collective analysis.  The second we jump on the "Ukraine can do no wrong" and "Lulz Russia always sux because Russia" train (despite evidence to the contrary), we will lose any objectivity we have.  The second we start supporting - even passively - some of the frankly immensely stupid extremist ideas floating around e.g. demonizing every Russian man, woman and child, lobbying for cultural genocide or worse, or some bizarre "war crimes are just ok, well ours are..." narratives, then we start the steady slide into a true internet cesspool, which frankly is beneath us all.

and these guys are gonna get fed back into a broken society..   It is something to see - a country literally destroying its future.

Ok, let me hit this on the head one last time because it is going to a really bad place.  And I totally get the sentiment but we need to be absolutely clear on this point - being the 'good guys' and acting like a modern professional military means all the time, no matter what. 
No days off, no "revenge breaks" and definitely no "hey they are doing it."
Only a combat veteran of Afghanistan or Iraq can describe just how badly we wanted to call in an A10 and wipe out an entire grid square after one of your own goes home in a box.  Or retaliate when the insurgents did some really dark sh#t.
But that ain't the gig, ever.  The single biggest point civilians do not get about war is that 'killing' is not the hard part - the hard part is 'to not keep on killing'. 
We clipped guys for holding a cellphone in the wrong place for too long, chewed up teenagers digging hole in roads, and a hammered into meat a few farmers dumb enough to stick around.  We did it and high-fived when we dropped them.  We slept soundly that night and never thought twice about doing it the next day. 
But we never let that out of the professional box we kept it in - the second we did, and could no longer tell which way was up - even when the other team was basically operating on Genghis Khan ROEs - we would stop being soldiers and become something else. And then the whole thing starts to unravel.
The RA and Russia will pay for their actions for decades.  War crimes are one of the key indicators that the RA is in freefall and not a coherent fighting force - military discipline has fallen apart on a wide scale, and they are reaping that field this fall.
But we beat them by being better than they are, forever.    

So back to the analysis of this war.  Caution and confirmation biases disclaimer accepted - it is things like these which really set the antenna twitching.  The level of systemic breakdown expressed in this one paragraph is enough to leave me wondering what is holding the RA together at this point.  This points to broad failures from force generation thru to force employment; inadequate training, nearly non-existent RSOMI - particularly on the (I) integration"; significant leadership failures and attrition; non-existent RA targeting enterprise, and; a plummeting morale - to the point they are adopting it within a sub-cultural norm, they named it.
The only question left is "how wide spread is this experience?"  The answer to that determines just how badly the RA has broken itself in this war.
We keep coming back to the idea of "freezing the conflict" as the new western fear.  I have to be honest, I cannot see how the RA can do that by this point.  To freeze any conflict one has to be able to create an unsolvable symmetry and frankly I cannot see how the RA can possibly accomplish this in the state it is in.  A lot of pundits are going on about a "long war" but I have some serious doubts.  I think we may see Steve's full RA collapse before this is over and it will likely start in units like this one.

Are we talking the grenade tossing episode or combat coming from outside the incident?
“The LOAC states that as soon as those RA troops came “into the hands” or “under the power” of then UA troops the combat between these two parties was over because the RA troops were legally POWs.  Once the grenade was tossed the central question to be answered is whether that lone soldier was re engaging in combat in an act of perfidy? And/or was the rest of that RA soldiers unit also re engaging or had the intent to re-engage.
If the UA unit were to come under fire from a third RA unit, they actually have the obligation to protect and extract the RA POWs. And nothing in LOAC says they can mow them down because a third party is shooting at them.
Look, I get it.  Ukrainian members on the forum really want to promote that the UA kept its hands clean. However, unrighteous shoots happen in warfare all the time - this the a harsh reality of combat.  How a nation is judged is by how it responds to and ensures that any party who engages in these actions is prosecuted under a military legal system.  Here they are afforded full legal protections under domestic law and a fair trial that will take into account all factors.  
Now if the UA is smart - and frankly I really think they very much are, far smarter than a few posters on this board - they will conduct an investigation etc with transparency etc, and the news cycle will move on with the footnote “Ukrainian authorities are investigating the incident in full and will share the results with its western partners”.  These sorts of investigations can take freakin months or years so we will be on to a new crisis before long while whatever this is fades to the background.
Or you can make a ton of counter-productive noise, bite the hand that is trying very hard - against some it it’s own electorates - to keep you from becoming a Russian province and provide a steady stream of sound bites for the pro-Russian crowd who are circling.

And this should be taken into account as it may suggest they had capability but that is not enough, one has to demonstrate clear intent.   Combat episode was finished as soon as the RA soldiers came out with hands up, the question is who and if they were employing perfidy to cause further harm or re-start combat.
Nope, that is why professional militaries have Rules of Engagement, the review of which will be a major part of a follow on investigation.
And is currently bank rolling this entire thing so you remain a free nation - now if you would like to explore other options your nation is free to do so.  This is the club you are joining.  If that doesn’t wash you could try knocking on China’s door.

Well said. Though it is helpful to have the legal points brought up and clarified for our edification. Focusing pages of debate on one such incident in a brutal genocidal war with literally thousands of equal or in most case far worse circumstances by the invader feels as if it only furthers the propaganda/PR value for Russia. I for one do not expect Ukrainian forces to be perfect in defense of their homes and families, especially after all this time and horror. I do expect that reckonings will come AFTER the war. At least in the West, where our shared values strongly incline us to. My support for defending Ukraine against this illegal invasion is not so thin and weak as to be shaken by this. 

Well this was not a shot at you personally.  More the love-hate relationship with the western military industrial complex.  When aligned with military strategy industry can do (and has) amazing things - like win the Cold War.  However, these guys are in this for additional reasons outside defending national interests, like their own interests.  So we have been on the receiving end of more military snake oil in the last 30 years than I care to remember.  
Add to this the deep internal resistance to change by both the industrial complex and militaries themselves and we have a recipe for truly epic screw ups in the next 10-20 years.  Warfare is moving - I, and others in the business, have felt the trembles for years.  And I suspect it is not incremental shift we are talking about. The militaries on top, who are heavily invested in a certain paradigm, do not historically do well in times of major shifts...we shall see. 

You can get around this restriction by using the old Reddit site. Change the "www" in any reddit link into "old", so "www.reddit.com/r/foobar" becomes "old.reddit.com/r/foobar"

NATO doctrine assumes that the main role in air defense is played by aviation. As a result, the majority of NATO countries have weak and small air defense. For example, Poland's air defense system in 2022 consisted of air defense systems of an even older model than Ukraine's (S-200, S-125). I found an interesting article on Facebook about the Polish air defense and their ability to repel a missile strike. It is without translation, so I will translate it myself.
What about air defense in Poland, and can the Poles defend themselves against racist missiles
- After yesterday's "arrival" over Poland during the Russian missile attack, there was a lot of wonder about how NATO (as the collective sum of the military power of the participating countries) could "sleep through" the attack. And the problem lies in the fact that even the same Poles have anti-aircraft defense at a "symbolic" level.
If we take data on air defense units in the Polish Air Force, there is only one S-200B battery covering Warsaw. And 17 S-125 Neva SC complexes (in a mobile version, on a tracked chassis).
If we take the data for the units of the army air defense as part of the Polish Ground Forces, then the picture looks somewhat "richer".
In particular, the Poles still have 20 2K12 "Kub" complexes, 64 "Osa-AK" complexes (this figure is as of the end of last year), 42 short-range Poprad air defense systems, 20 ZSU-23-4MP Biala anti-aircraft artillery complexes ( the Polish upgrade of "Shylka"), and about a hundred Pilica complexes - a "hybrid" of the modified ZU-23-2 and Piorun MANPADS. Also - about 300 units of "classic" ZU-23-2.
But the situation with air defense equipment for the Polish naval forces looks the most colorful. Their fleet has two anti-aircraft divisions and two anti-aircraft batteries armed with S-60 and ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft guns and "Peruns". And with such a simple array of forces, the Poles cover in particular the pride of their Navy - two batteries of NSM coastal missile anti-ship complexes.

You may recall 2014 Putin delayed his war in Ukraine specifically until after the Sochi winter Olympics was over. Feb 2021, while the Beijing Olympics was taking place, I said that Putin's gonna pull the trigger within a week of the closing ceremonies - and he did.

Image link:
lol.... and that would be a no!
I can't figure why images won't work properly. Even tried reducing the size to the 1.48 kB limit. I had been meaning to post that a long time ago.