Mattias

No, off topic it was. I guess I see too much of this stuff at work. Some times one needs to let of steam. Then again, it's what we are dealing with whether we like it or not. The thing I am really, really looking forward to is to see how BFC has changed the overall feel and pace of play. How will troops react to fire? How will communications be handled? Ah, you know the whole package, the feel with a capital F. Doesn't matter where or when. M:)

Why do you hate like this? What is it that has been taken from you, or perhaps never been given, to make you want other human beings to suffer? Could you walk up to two parents standing by their sons grave, or too a daughter standing by that of here mother, and say you are happy to see their sun (Freudian slip, son) bleed or her mother drown? Because that is what you are saying, you know that, don't you? Somehow I hope you don't, because then some day someone you love or trust might make you see it. On the other hand, if you do know, you will truly be looking into the abyss when you look into your bathroom mirror in the morning. The face and the cause of war. Chills me to the bone it does, and makes me question, just like yesterday and the day before that, this hobby, interest, fascination, passion that I have. M.

Put me up for a preorder! Warfare began with Ugh hitting Orgh on the head with a rock. If BFC did a good game on that I would buy it. What fascinates me is the violent interaction, the whole range of human emotions and activities, from the first battle or the letter written home, to the grand strategy and political manoeuvres. The technical aspects, the tactical, the psychological, the moral, simply put every aspect of war. What makes it a good game, in my opinion, is playability and faithfulness to the subject. And judging from BTS, eh, BFC's previous efforts I have no doubts. Bring it on! M.

COG.. Really... For the service provided by your site, I would hack my way through a jungle of self-repeating, flashing, adware dumping, sexist popups. Period. Could be my bad conscience talking... Being one of those who have downloaded what must be hundreds of mods, and still not donated, I am inclined to suffer a bit to get to the good stuff. And thank you for the good work M.

Still have to find a home for some 2600 Marders though I'll see what I can find. M.

My sincere apologies for the length of this post, but it holds a few interesting facts. I made this compilation back in 2001 so any reference to CM is CM:BO. keep in mind that it is based on only one source, albeit a good one. So, for what it’s worth: Jagdpanzer initial availability based on the Motor buch Verlag ”Militärfahrzeuge” series vol. 14 and 15. Jagdpanther Western front The first 8 were delivered on the 28. April 1944 to s.Pz.Jg. Abt. 654 (the only unit ever to be equipped with three full strength companies): This unit went into battle with these 8 Jg.Pz. on the 15. June 1944. In action later that month. (28. July 21 vehicles ready, 4 in repair) Total count in the west 16. December 1944: 51 Jagdpanther 17 Jagdpanther ready and in position to take part in the Ardennes offensive Eastern front None available in 1944. s.Pz.Jg. Abt. 563 (Gemischte/mixed 1x Jagdpanther comp. and 2 x Pz IV/70 (V) comp.) In action 21.1.1945 together with the 9 Jagdpanthers of the 3. Comp s.Pz.Jg. Abt. 616 (no indication as to whether the latter unit had seen action earlier) Peak availability was reported on the 15. Mars 1945 with 25 Jagdpanther in the west and 34 in the east being ready for action (a further 58/28 in repair) Ferdinand/Elefant Eastern Front s.Pz.Jg. Reg. 656 (s.Pz.Jg. Abt. 653 and 654 fielding the Ferdinands) In action at the opening of operation Zitadelle. At the evening of the opening day 37 Ferdinands where combat ready. In August the Regiment was pulled out of the line. Abt. 654 was sent to the west to refit with Jagdpanthers while Abt. 653 remained on the eastern front until the end of November when it was ordered to move back to Germany to repair and upgrade. After 4 months of combat on the Eastern front the Regiment claimed to have destroyed 582 tanks, 344 AT-guns and 133 pieces of artillery. In early April 1944 s.Pz.Jg. Abt. 653 (now without its 1. Comp in Italy) was ordered to return to the east, operating in the area of Heeresgruppe Nordukraine, to help stem the Russian summer offensive. In October the s.Pz.Jg. Abt. 653 was ordered back to refit with Jagdtigers. The remaining Elefants where herded together in s.Jg.Pz.Kp. 614, in which they fought on till the bitter end in the east. The last reports tell of the company (only four combat ready Elefants) fighting with KG Ritter south of Berlin the 22. April 1945. Italian Front 1. comp s.Pz.Jg. Abt. 653 Deployed in February 1944. Fought throughout the spring of 44’. There were rarely more than 6 vehicles combat ready at any one time. On the 26. June 1944 the support and repair vehicles of the company was ordered to be return to the Abt. Fighting in Russia. The Remaining two operational Elefants where to be left in Italy. Jagdtiger Western Front s.Pz.Jg. Abt. 653: 1.comp. deployed for the Ardennes offensive with 14 Jagdtigers. However these did not participate in the offensive. 3 Jagdtigers of the Abt. 653 were ready and in position to participate (as ordered) in operation Nordwind , starting on the 30. December. They were supposed to have been operating in support of the 17. SS Pz.G. Div. However, there is no record of this actually happening. The only other unit to receive Jagdtigers was s.Pz.Jg. Abt. 512, also fighting in the west (surrendered on the 16. April). The highest number of combat ready Jagdtigers reported was 38 (3 in repair), on the 15. March 1945. The last report was made on the 26. April when 1 combat ready Jagdtiger remained. Jagdpanzer 38 “Hetzer” Western Front 14 Jagdpanzer 38 were sent to the 79. and 257. infantry divisions in late August with the next batch to the west following in late September (14 each to 183, 246 and 363 Volks Gren. Div.) On the 10th of April 1945 the number of deployed Jagdpanzer 38 was as follows: East: 661 out of which 489 ready for action West: 101 out of which 79 ready for action Italy: 76 out of which 64 ready for action Some in H.Pz.Jg.Abt but more frequently as part of the organic panzerjäger-Kompanien of the non Pz. Divisions. 20 Jagdpanzer 38 were converted to flame thrower tanks and used in the Panzer-Flamm-Kompanien 352 and 353. They were deployed in the end of December 1944, operating in the area of Heeresgruppe G. Eastern Front Pz.Jg.Abt. 731 (Heeresgruppe Nord) and then Pz.Jg.Abt. 743 (Heeresgruppe Mitte) A little unclear as to when, exactly, they arrived. However, the vehicles for Pz.Jg.Abt. 743 were sent on their way on the 4. August 1944. Those of Abt. 731 arrived a little earlier but no more than two weeks or so. This seems to be supported by the report that the Hetzers of Abt. 731 were in action from July onwards. The allotment was 45 vehicles each. Jagdpanzer IV 2 Main versions:  The first 300 of the Jagdpanzer IV had 60mm frontal armour @ 45 (hull) / 40 (superstructure) degrees (superstructure).  Following Jagdpanzer IV, from vehicle 301 onwards, 80mm frontal @ 45 (hull) / 40 (superstructure) degrees - The latter type is for some reason not included in CM, despite constituting the majority of the JgPz IV (L/48) produced. The switch to the 80mm model was made in May 1944. The production continued until November 1944. Beginning in Mars 1944 the Jagdpanzer IV was released to the Pz.Jg.Abt. of the Pz. And Pz.G. divisions. Western Front The first unit to receive the Jagdpanzer IV was the Panzerjäger-Lehr-Abteilung 130 of the Panzer-Lehr-Division When the allied forces landed there was 62 Jagdpanzer IV in the units immediately facing them. At the time of the Ardennes offensive 92 Jagdpanzer IV were active in the west. Italian Front Between the 25th of April to 30th of May 83 Jagdpanzer IV were sent to Italy. The first to see action were the ones in the III. Abt. Pz.Reg. “Herman Göring”. Those sent to the 3. And 15. Pz.G. Div. soon left Italy with their parent units. Eastern Front Transports to the east began on the 6th of June. The Pz.Jg.Abt were rearmed in the same way as in the west, first in line being the 4.Pz.Div (49th Pz.Jg.Abt. IIRC). On the 30. December 1944 the following number of Jagdpanzer IV were in service: East Front: 209 out of which 146 ready West front: 59 out of which 28 ready Jagdpanzer IV/70 (V) Production began in August 1944 with 57 vehicles being produced. The highest number produced in one month was 185, in January 1945 West Front The first units to be equipped with this vehicle were the 105. and 106 Panzerbrigaden which receive in their new charges in August 1944, followed by the 107 and 108 in September. In September 10 Jagdpanzer IV/70(V) were also delivered to the 116. Pz.Div East Front 109, 110 Pz.Brig. and the Führer-Grenadier-Brigade was fitted out in September 1944 and in October 10 vehicles was sent as replacements to the 24. Pz.Div. From October onwards special attenton was given to the units earmarked for the operations “Wacht am Rhein” and “Nordwind in order to bringing up the strength. These efforts brought the Jagdpanzer IV/70 (V) numbers up to 210 in the west before the offensives started. Between January an Mars 1945 more than 200 vehicles were sent as replacements to the east. Jagdpanzer IV/70 (A) In order to maximise the output of Jagdpanzers armed with the 7.5 cm KwK 42, Alkett produced vehicle using an unmodified Pz. IV hull topped by a Jagdpanzer IV superstructure. Although this hybrid by no means could be considered a failure it nevertheless was a clearly inferior compared to the Jagdpanzer IV/70 (V). In particular the faulty layout of the armour made it much more susceptible to AP fire. For example; the 85mm gun of a T-34 could penetrate the Jagdpanzer IV/70 (A) frontally at a distance of 1500m, whereas the Jagdpanzer IV/70 (V) would be more or less safe down to a distance of 100m. Production began in August 1944 and ended in Mars 1945 with 278 vehicles being produced. Western Front The first units to field the vehicle in the west was II. Abt. Pz.Reg. “Grossdeutschland” and II. Abt. Pz.Reg. 2. The Jagpanzer IV/70 (A) were delivered during November and December. Eastern Front In September 1944 the Führer-Begleit-Brigade was the first unit to be assigned Jagpanzer IV/70 (A), only five vehicles however. Deliveries to the east were slow at the time so it seems likely they arrived in October along with further Jagpanzer IV/70 (A) earmarked for other units. The total figure of vehicles delivered seems to be around 40 for that month. Many vehicles were given in small numbers to different Stu.G.Brig. both in the east and the west to bolster their firepower while the bulk of units continued to consist mainly of standard StuG types. M.

Agh, it was one of -those- Churchills! Had it identified as another model Turn sent! M.

Well, Bigduke6 did limit the selection to Panzerdivisionen, but yes, in the grand scope you would have to include (in the east alone), for 1 june 1944, 32 StuG brigades containing 783 StuG and 120 StuH, for 15 of March 1945, 30 brigades with 518 StuG and 190 StuH. Not counting replacements, the total number of StuG's sent to Infanterie-, Gebirgs-, Jäger- and Volks-Grenadier-Divisionen on both the west and east front between May 1944 and January 1945 comes to some 660 units. And then add to this, for example, StuG's in Luftwaffe-Feld-units. (Spielberger, "Sturmgeschütze", page 241 ff) M.

Right you are, thanks for covering my blind spot Andreas. There was enough of a discussion about the realism of the CM interpretation of the 75L70 gun to make me think in IRL terms By the way, a French post war evaluation of the Panther estimated that the 4th or 5th round should be a hit at ranges between 1400 and 2000 meters (which was considered a normal engagement range with the 75L70 gun). To fuel the discussion a bit, the evaluation also found that the Panther had a time between a target was spotted until the first shot was fired that, normally, was in the order of 20-30 seconds. That was, according to the evaluation, much longer than the time needed for a Sherman. The reason for this was that the gunner in a Panther had no other means of observation than his gunner scope, making acquisition of the target hard. Important details that are not, as far as I know, modelled completely in the game. Cheers! M.

What period are you thinking about exactly? [Edited] Ah, ok, leave them out for playability reasons.. see it now. Still, the figures might interest someone Available (operational) in Panzer units on the east front. 31 may 1944: StuG 176 (148), Pz IV 603 (484), Pz V 313 (238), Pz VI 298 (233). 9 divisions armed with Pz V´s 15 march 1945: StuG 545 (314), Pz IV 603 (345), Pz V 776 (387), Pz VI 212 (125). 35 divisions armed with Pz V´s Keep in mind though, that those are only the figures for the Panzerdivisionen. Cheers! M. [ August 22, 2005, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Mattias ]

Oh, and a Tac AI that can be programmed for variable SOP:s. Not as important as the horses, but still nice. M.

Funny you should say that. I was just going to write: I like AT guns. Have good success with them too. Ask Andreas Cheers;) M.

I had an early war Pz IV, going fast on a road, at a 90 degree angle from a BT-7A artillery tank at some 1400 meters. The Russian fires his 76,2 mm L/17 at 387m/s and Kaboom, critical hit, don't even think there were any survivors. With a, what, 4 second flight time that is some serious gunnery skills, or, well, the gunner should buy a lottery ticket... Made my opponent all happy, so I guess it wasn't all bad Besides, has anyone, really, been proven to cheat in such a manner that it could produce a result like the one Beren describes above? Cheers! M.

An observation you no doubt share with countless commanders since the dawn of human conflict I'm just happy CM portays troop quality in a way that makes you "feel" it. -And that P3 is broadcastning Maiden live right now Cheers! M.

Oh, there is a thread on this operation? Well, in that case, let me tell you Franko, that this is the operation that single handidly restored my faith in CM operations played against the AI. Sure the AI makes stupid advances towards captured flags during the battles, but not all of them do... and each battle starts with a sort of resonable setup by the AI, well, at least on I can play against and have a bit of a challenge, battle after battle. And that's something I have not seen in other operations. I suppose it has to do with using the static operation rule with a lot of VP flags... Anyway, it works. Thanks for putting in the effort! M:)

Humber FWD 4 x 4... mayhap.

Indeed, just like in the good old days! I fear that by letting you borrow Meyer’s books I may have accelerated your descent into grogginess Dandelion. Then again that could only have been a minute causal factor in the intricate web of this addiction M.

WineCape For further insight into Irving and, partly, your particular question I suggest you read "Holoucaust on trial" by D.D. Guttenplan. A very interesting read, and not a bad bibliography either. Cheers M. P.S. Now get this off the CM:AK forum D.S.

Yup, I for one am fully convinced, after the matter was weathered here on the forum, that that indeed was the case. I have never seen a German source from the time 41/42 that claims that HEAT type weapons was taken into consideration when the Schuertzen were designed. For a perspective of the ATR gunners view of a Pz III, check out this source: Russian Battlefield, parts of the ATR section Armoured surfaces under, around, 30 mm thickness that weren’t sloped were also vulnerable to ATR fire. Cheers! M.

Could be, like Wicky says, that you have a mod or indeed that we have mods, at least all my early Panthers (D early, D and A early) have skirts on the in game models. Far from being field modifications all production Panthers had facility mount hangers, and on the hangers the skirts. If you had the hangers and the skirts you could mount them. But since they fell off from time to time you would see tanks lacking a few or indeed all. Personally I think they might not have been deemed absolutely necessary as the 40 mm armour they protected was a bit on the thick side for ATR:s (skirts originally being fitted as protection from, primarily, ATR:s). Why BFC decided to have the early three Panthers carry skirts, but not the late three versions I don't know. Perhaps they found a source stating that skirts were removed in the field (just as muzzle breaks were removed on some guns), I for one have pictures of Panthers of all models, including the "F" prototype, with skirts on them. Cheers! M.

Ah, well, cough, cough, those were the days. I can still remember when I saw the one of those flying up from the Tiger in Last defence, hitting a unit on the second floor at the edge of town. Might have been one of the first spottings reported, it was one of those wow moments when you got an insight into the level of detail BTS aimed for. Here’s a site for those who want to know more: The place to look. Welcome back by the way! Nice to reminiscence a bit, about the time when we were all a big bustling family rooting for BTS and CM M.

Not being an expert in the field myself I was not aware that the design of the rocket itself led to them having significantly different characteristics at the moment of detonation. The Russian warhead detonating in the ground, as opposed to above the ground in the case of the German one, and this resulting in them having different characteristics with regards to factors like chock wave and shrapnel distribution. Assuming that is what Hogg's book says. I for one thought the fuse mounted on both systems was set to detonate the warhead at whatever delay (and thus position in relation to ground level) deemed most effective, rather than letting the physical design of the rocket dictate that. M.

Do you have any sources that reaches the same conclusion as you do, or did it just seem to make sense? It seems to me that there should be a few more factors involved in this than just the placement of the warhead in relation to the front and rear of the rocket... M.

In the first chapter of Speilbergers book "Der Panzer-Kampfwagen Panther und seine Abarten" the author starts out with presenting the facts and figures of the T-34 because, in his opinion: In the end, also the construction of the new design, the Panther tank, described in this book was initiated and heavily influenced by the T-34. That comes after he points out the "tatsach" that the appearance if the T-34 for the first time really forced the OKH to consider new heavy tank designs. And that; The reference to the T-34 goes like a red thread through the study of tanks in world war 2. On the German side it wasn't just the guns and armour of every tank, but the entire anti-tank force of the army that had to be adjusted to the new situation created by the T-34. (my translation) What do you base your opinion on K_Tiger? I for one definitely, let say, imagine I see a lot of similarities between the tanks. The Panther being the more powerful one as it was, step by step, designed to decisively, and in every aspect, defeat it's older cousin. M. [ August 23, 2004, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Mattias ]