Phantom Rocker Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Just an interesting note. I purchased the re-released Panzer Elite a few days ago - for the unaware, a WWII tank sim. Then I justed wanted to see if I can hit something when I'm on the move (Distance about 400m, me in a Panther). I had small efforts when I was driving very slow on a road. But it's absolutly impossible in any offroad terrain. I was even unable to hold the gun on target, cause the whole tank is rocking'n'rolling. Everyone should give it a try. (Maybe there's a demo somewhere). Then I run some test with CM, a Panther moving through brush terrain, firing on a (moving!) Sherman, also about 400m away. It always needed 5-10 shots, but also was always succesful. This is funny, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffe Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 I also bought Panzer Elite and was surprised at how good this game is. Huge MAPS! and gun, inf and arty support. Plus with all the mods (it is like CM, very customizable) it offer tons of tanks and all scenarios. It is true however how hard it is to hit an actual target. I know I'm not a german gunner, but even with wind resistance and all the other realistic shell affects turned off it is still very hard espcially 500m+... In CM, most of the tank fighting is done on "smooth" grass ground or pavement... while in real life tanks almost always stopped to target something I think CM is pretty much on the mark with moving tanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 You are a conscript crew...what was the crew in CM? Also how fast were you going, how fast was the tank going in CMBO? Etc etc etc Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 a] it's a game b] are you trained in tank gunnery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffe Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 What you gus are saying make NO SENSE. NO WE ARE NOT GERMAN GUNNERS!!! But yes, we have the comfort of sitting by a warm computer, using MOUSE aim, external view, and target info... I think that would beat out the most "veteran" tanker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Rocker Posted December 20, 2001 Author Share Posted December 20, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Shadow 1st Hussars: a] it's a game b] are you trained in tank gunnery?<hr></blockquote> a) This is right, but CM is also a game. Yes, I was. But in a Leopard, of course not in an ancient WWII tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaffod Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 How would you guys rate Panzer Elite (re-release) overall. I remember getting it right when it came out and being thoroughly frusterating. Even sitting still the gunnery was impossible. I recall point blank shots of 2 meters or less totally missing the targets. Eventually I gave up and lost the cd. Now my curiosity is peaked again with all the new drivable vehicles and mods done to the game. So it any better now since its original release? is the gunnery ANY easier to operate?? Zaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaffod Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 uhhhh.... going back a bit.. i meant shots from 200 meters or less.. not '2 meters'.. that would be plain silly... Zaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 I'm an excelent gunner, and I'll light your Ronson from 1000 meters in 3 shots or less. Games gunnery/ ballistics are dead on. The armor and penetration values are screwed up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Echo: The armor and penetration values are screwed up though.<hr></blockquote> And this hasn't changed in this new release Echo? Thinking of getting it myself.. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graaf Spee Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Luftwaffe: But yes, we have the comfort of sitting by a warm computer, using MOUSE aim, external view, and target info... I think that would beat out the most "veteran" tanker...<hr></blockquote> Sorry, I can't agree with you there. I think one of the problems is that you ARE using a mouse when you aim. The mouse is a good (excellent?) all round device. But the tank sights were designed for one thing only. Just think about it. What is easier to use, a CDplayer or one of the mediaplayers on your computer. I know that I would pick the CDplayer any day because its just quicker smoother and... And the gunners in WW2 had a LOT of practice with a device that was designed just for that. Am I making sense? /Kristian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 I bought Panzer Elite as soon as it came out, but I didn't know enough about tanks, tactics, and combined arms to have a good game with it. Graphics and bugs were problems too. But I saved it on my hard disk as I moved to European Air War and Jane's WWII fighters. Then CM arrived and answered all my ground fighting needs. Meantime, I learned enough about ground war to think about fighting in a tank sim with PE again. But I still haven't done it. I'm surprised they issued it again, although I wish them success so they can try again with a second effort. I haven't seen PE in the stores. I wish they could do it with new graphics and computer power. I think the power of CM is the intuitive 3D terrain and effects, the combined arms, and the open build to let fans add details. CM gets the physics and tactical game challenge right, while letting newbies like me learn what to do. This is the only game I've played for almost two years, although I've just gotten Ghost Recon and IL-2 Sturmovik. Still, it's nice to know I've got CM and CM2 to get my thrills if the other games don't work for me (which typically they don't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaffod Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Im in the same boat, lawyer.. I have been playing CM solidly for about 1.5 years. Ive had stints with other games but i always end up getting tired of them and going back to CM. Lets not talk about Counterstrike... ooooooh lord! wish i could forget about that one. Im upgrading my system and plan on heading straight for the computer store to get stormovihk.. i can see loosing alot of sleep over that one. I just saw the re-release of PE today at the comp store and was real tempted in getting it.. Then i remembered how many times i came close to putting my fist through the monitor after i got the first one. I played it for about a month and just lost interest and almost lost my sanity. I really WANTED to like PE but the gunnery was just intolerable.. a good example was this: my tank would be motionless, as would the targets.. Id fire.. the round would fall short.. Id compensate, fire again, still a little short.. then id creep the crosshairs up a little higher and fire again, way over! then id creep the sights down a bit.. way short... this happened so many times, i just could not get any consistancy in taking out targets.. i know its suppose to be realistic.. but if tank crews of ww2 faced these weird-ass dynamics and odds, then they wouldnt have lasted a week. So if i find that the gunnery is still unchanged, ill probably opt to not get the re-release... just my 2 cents... btw: let me know how stormovihk is.. Zaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patgod Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 since i cant speak from direct experience with either wwii tank arms, or with PE, i will keep this abstract and short. dispersion is a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JigVictor07 Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Where can I buy that Panzer Elite-Special Edition? I really want to have that game! Any European online-stores selling it? American will do also, if it's not sold in Europe. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheer Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Hi all and especially Zaffod, OT : Shturmovik is the best WW2 Flightsim ever. I have EAW, Janes WW2, FSDOE, CSF2, PAW ... Buy Shturmovik now. It really is THAT good. The CMBB of flightsims ... Scheer out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Scheer is right Shturmovik is amazing! Also all you PE guys try playing the game with gunnery set to "boresight" until you get used to manipulating the rest of the game. "Boresight" mode lets you shoot straight at the target without worrying about windage and drop and all those details. Once you get used to the game turn the gunnery back to realistic and you'll have alot more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Rocker Posted December 21, 2001 Author Share Posted December 21, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JigVictor07: Where can I buy that Panzer Elite-Special Edition? <hr></blockquote> You can get it at www.amazon.de Another very interesting experience is spotting. Driving arround with my Panther, and who in the hell is shooting on me? Try to find an enemy tank with closed hatches! Even if my wingman tells me 'Tank, 10 o'clock, 500m' - try to find that damned thing when it's hidden in some trees. Not to mention AT guns!!! I ussually try to spot it when it fires and pump some HE into the wood, hoping it's dead. Will be intersting to see this situation under the new super FOW in CMBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 As much as I like PE, there is one serious flaw in the gunnery model: Shots travel instantly. There is no flight time of shell, as soon as you press the fire button, the shell hits the ground or target. This means that you don't have to lead a moving target, making the gunnery less realistic and easier. So if you're thinking your tank is a harder target to hit because you're moving, you're wrong. This kind of kills any 'shoot and scoot' closing tactics that the allies relied upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JigVictor07 Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Thanks, but Amazon.de sells only the Deutch version. Is English version available at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U8led Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Interesting thread. I am not realy into tank sims but I play a lot of WWII-online and that seems to be an excellent ww2 tank simulation although they are currently only at 1940 tanks. But on the bright side you are always fighting other human players. If you get the chance give that game a go. See ya on the battlefield. U8led Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 PE looks interesting but sadly it is not available for the MAC. Oh well, Back to CMBO for me -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venjra ICQ 2126434 Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Hello guys, I got the first release of PE..wich with the 1.8 patch and installer went from average to a good game. Yes its true that physics are screwed but the rest of the experience is worth the money. Remember that in 1999 when Sony bought Psygnosys the PE licence got stucked in a bad deal and only the first batch of games were released. In a few months the game was a rarity and people began to sell it on ebay for lots of money...the game went up to 89 bucks. The PE mod comunity did a great job and the dedicated programes got the licence back to a re-launch, wich will include all the mods. In terms of graphics and gameplay, PE was in 99 a game ahead of its time, and now that we have the technology to run it, it looks and feels great. But the true joy of this game comes to replayability and customization, the maps are very detailed of the true sites and the options to play it "gamey" and real are great..you can even disable the mini tank and play every position as it was in WWII. The Multiplayer game is fantastic, and the PE people meet in Kali room 61 to play it some times. TCP/IP is available too. So if you guys wanna play me...Im game. I strongly recomend to get this game wich have a tremendous support from their producers who once posted on their boards that it was ok to burn the disc for distribution when the licence sank, with only the promise of the players to buy it if it would become available again. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 The mod community has been supportive of Panzer Elite despite the dryspell with the previously mentioned licensing problems. On release it was only a US vs. German affair. Some fans though persevered with the delay of the then proposed Ostfront expansion and took the liberty of modding the Western armor as Russian tanks. I also remember someone adding the Jagdtiger and Maus. Yes the Maus. That may be overdoing it but it just shows that the community is still supportive. The British and the Italians as I recall have been added by some modders. As for a European release, surely if anything it will be out there soon enough. The developers of PE are from Germany. Here's their site if you're interested: http://www.wingssimulations.com/panzerelite.html [ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: Warmaker ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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