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Amadeus

Big Tournament

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Sure, this could be done. I will wait for response of all players and think it over how to handle your request. Any other opinion about this is pretty welcome.

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Hi Amadeus,

I agree with Clausewitz but the time limitation on our side ( work and family) as well as the whole span of such a tournament makes several games within a bracket almost impossible. The thing is on real full time game tournament we can afford multiple opponent in a bracket and still get away with a reasonable progression within a year. With 17 players or more, let's forget it.

A solution would be to allow points per game instead of a loss/win based progression. Points could go along:

-Victory or loss according to the tournament rules

-definite map objectives say capitals, mines, historical axis high tide location with or without a date, etc

- some mpp production or mpp loss or units loss threshold, could be penalty points too

- You can have bonus points if you do better than history with some conquests or liberation. For instance Axis get Paris before June40 or Allies liberate Paris before August44. Axis keep Roma after june 44 or Allies conquer it before june 44. Additionnal points if Paris hold after june 40, etc.

There is an infinite combination with point table like that. Of course, implementing all this means quite a good workload on Amadeus shoulders. Calibrating this point table may be an issue as it would need testing. A very basic one might do the trick but in the end there is no way to sort out best players with one game only. 3 games would be minimal at the first stage then the 8 best players according to their points score should meet for the Semi-final, Demi and the big final with just one game.

Hopefully every player could play its first 3 games before some specific date in early 2014. Those in the process of completing their 3rd game would have points according to the score to date in that 3rd game if no winner came out. In a way, those players would have a strong incentive to complete that 3rd game otherwise they would loose the points given for a Win.

Amadeus, give it a thought but if you doubt any such formula is workable, please just drop it and go along with a classic one despite its bias. I know there is a lot of experienced players who devised in every SC games a good first shot strategy not usable twice against the same opponent. They obviously have the edge in that type of tournament and that was my first concern when I insisted to start games as soon as possible so we woud not have to deal with these tricks or gamey stuff that plagued Pbem games.

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I would love to play this tournament too, but I fear that time will be an issue. A game takes a loooong time, with many turns and even if you only play 1 game, it will still take 4 full games to know the winner (5 even, now that there are more that 16 players). One game will take several weeks, even when playing two turns per day. Four games will take months :(

I don't plan months ahead in my life, I don't even know what I will have for breakfast tomorrow!

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Yes, it is not easy to make a real good draw for the tournament. The arguments from Clausewitz and MonsterClaude are substantially of course. On the other side the tourny should not last too long. Now we have 18, 19 players (if I count steel32 as 19th).

Over the weekend I try to take all this into account. I have a good Draw of the Tournament now (I hope). Has to be adjusted with steel32 too.

Anyway, I verify all players now and we could start very soon.

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Hi there Amadeus and others :) ,

- Just my opinion but with 18 players you can have:

- All players will meet 4 different opponents and have at least 4 games (2 axis/2 allies).

- All players will remain involved with something to fight for after the first round/losses (and even a shot at the main final depending on 3rd round organization).

- Groups of 3 will allow players to have 2 ongoing games at the same time, still manageable and reducing tournament length for first rounds.

*

1st round:

6 groups of 3

(each player has 2 games, one as ally, one as axis)

First 2 players of each group go to 2nd round part A (12 players)

Remaining players go to 2nd round part B (6 players)

*

2nd round:

Part A

4 groups of 3

(each player has 2 games, one as ally, one as axis)

You can select from 4 (group winners) to 8 players (with seconds) for next round.

part B

2 groups of 3

(each player has 2 games, one as ally, one as axis)

You can select from 2 (group winners) to 4 players (with seconds) for next turn.

*

3rd round:

option A (long) 12 players / 12-15 games / 2 parts

Part A

(8 players / 8-11 games / 3 sub-turns)

- 4 group winners from 2nd round part A

- 2 best second from 2nd round part A

- 2 group winners from 2nd round part B

(4 games as 1/4 finals)

(2 games as 1/2 finals)

(one game for third place)

(one game as main final)

NB1: of course you can still add 3 games ("second" 1/2 and finals for the 4 players eliminated in 1/4 finals)

NB2: you can also have mirror games instead of single ones

NB3: if single games, for 1/4 side should be decided by (Part A group winners) opponents to level chances

NB4: for 1/4 finals (Part A group winners) shouldn't meet each others

NB5: for 1/4 finals players should play an opponent they havn't met before when possible

Part B

(4 players / 4 games / 2 sub-turns)

- 2 remaining second from 2nd round Part A

- 2 group second from 2nd round part B

(2 games as part B 1/2 finals)

(one game for part B third place)

(one game for part B first place)

*

option B (medium) 8 players / 8 games / 2 sub-turns

Part A

- 4 group winners from 2nd round part A

(two games as 1/2 finals)

(one game for third place)

(one game as main final)

Part B

- 2 group winners from 2nd round part B

- 2 best second from 2nd round part A

(two games as "second" 1/2 finals)

(one game for "second" third place)

(one game as "second" final)

*

option C (short) 6 players / 5 games / 2 sub-turns

Part A

- 4 group winners from 2nd round part A

(two games as 1/2 finals)

(one game for third place)

(one game as main final)

Part B

- 2 group winners from 2nd round part B

(one game as "second" final)

Hope it will help you ;) .

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Waau, really good. Why don't you ever organize a tourny before?

OK, I have a different option to all of this and you could watch it soon.

One big problem we always have is the time. 1 round will last about 1/4 year maybe more. If you make it up to 4 or 5 rounds (including Final) you have to play more than 1 year. I guess that could be too long. Anyway, I will make it in 4 rounds but your options are worth to make it next time.

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Hi guys,

Let the games begin. Below you can watch the official Tournament Draw.

aR10t2I9z4u9NQ_m8jnRHa1Oz3JXDZp8_9m3QR0pPbw?size=1280x960

The Games begin with a group phase and the best 2 players will reach the next round. Winner A will meet second of group F then and so on.

We have 3 Semi Finals and a Big Final with 3 players. In the Final every play will have to play 1 Axis and 1 Allie match against the other 2 Finalist.

All in all pretty easy I guess.

You have to begin your first 2 matches before 2013-09-16 but you may start from now whenever you like. Contact your opponents on your own and

inform me about the day you start. Remember, you have at the most 105 days after starting. I will contact every group after a while.

Some guys have some days off, so be kind if you can’t reach a player at once. If any player do not response or change his mind inform me.

I try to solve the problem.

I wish you much fun.

Special Thank you for Gary Kizziah, Strategiclayabout and Clausewitz. You gave me important input for a good Start.

Kindly Regards Amadeus

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For any member on facebook try this event I just create:

Strategic Command Assault on Democracy Tournament

Maybe some of you may follow the tourny there better. Kind of test for me.

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Thanks for the comment Amadeus ;) ,

- I was thinking about what Monsterclaude said for table points and the worlkoad it would be for you. Why not use national morale when you need to determine winners ?

* you can shorten several games to a set date where NM will be counted.

(frantic last turns guaranteed :P)

* It already includes strategic/MPPs locations and main unit losses.

* The game does the job for you, just add NM values for each side.

* Even those pesky locations with NM value 2 can make a difference.

* It would incite players to avoid/seek casualties in low supply/encirclements.

(ships will be even more preciouuuuuuus :D)

Finished games:

- Let's say your 18 players have finished two games (axis + allies), you add player NM for those two games (UK+France+USA+USSR+China+Germany+Italy+Japan) and compare with other players, highest combined NM will pass.

- If your 18 players only have one finished game, you compare NM for allied players (UK+France+USA+USSR+China) and axis players separately. Best allies and axis (Germany+Italy+Japan) will reach the next round where they will change sides.

Unfinished games:

- Same thing except you set a date/game turn to count NM for those trailing behind :) .

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What I had recommended to Amadeus was also on the National Morale line.... except using it for a 'tie-break' when, for instance, players decide to go with a mirrored match... and both sides manage a win... now what?... so I was thinking the same thing... they add up their remaining NM at the end of their 2games (or some other point as in Amadeus minimum game point at 105th move)....surrendered nations are given zero with this approach. Highest total wins.

Also applicable, I think, in the event that all 3 players in a group of 3 manage to go 1 win & 1 tie...so now a 3-way tie (yikes) ... if players kept a record of the NM at the predetermined point ... then highest 2 go forward... lowest total left scratching head and waiting for the next event.

And I further agree that a lot of 'little' objectives and battles could now become very critical... particularly, as you note, naval battles. ps: use the actual NM numbers, not the %, so that Italy is not over valued.

Having said all that, I still think that the simplistic approach of the key strategic/political targets as Amadeus has set up would probably be easier to follow for most players ...only using the National Morale to decide the tie games

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You find them under address "To"

3 names, one of the name should be yours? I hope...

I will verify when I come back home...

(What I find strange on this: In Germany many people ask about why data of any kind is given to whom (data economy). In other countries it don't really matter I guess.)

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Important news for all players:

Hubert inform me today that the next Patch is not very far away. In the next 2 weeks 1.02 will be available. All players who hasn't already start there games may wait for some days.

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What I had recommended to Amadeus was also on the National Morale line.... except using it for a 'tie-break' when, for instance, players decide to go with a mirrored match... and both sides manage a win... now what?... so I was thinking the same thing... they add up their remaining NM at the end of their 2games (or some other point as in Amadeus minimum game point at 105th move)....surrendered nations are given zero with this approach. Highest total wins.

Also applicable, I think, in the event that all 3 players in a group of 3 manage to go 1 win & 1 tie...so now a 3-way tie (yikes) ... if players kept a record of the NM at the predetermined point ... then highest 2 go forward... lowest total left scratching head and waiting for the next event.

And I further agree that a lot of 'little' objectives and battles could now become very critical... particularly, as you note, naval battles. ps: use the actual NM numbers, not the %, so that Italy is not over valued.

Having said all that, I still think that the simplistic approach of the key strategic/political targets as Amadeus has set up would probably be easier to follow for most players ...only using the National Morale to decide the tie games

- Yes I agree :) , only when you need to decide a winner in close games. Usually, locations victory conditions objectives should be enough for most games !

- I also think it would be better for all players to wait the new patch, they'll lose a turn at worst and everybody will have the same playing conditions. Better than having to run two AoD later in the tournament ;) .

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Sorry to say that I have to withdraw from the tournament. I seem to have an insurmountable problem in getting AoD to run on my computer. I've made multiple posts on the forum and followed the instructions from Hubert as best as I could and for some reason AoD doesn't want to run on my computer. I surrender! Best of luck to the other participants. Sorry if I messed up the brackets but if I can't get the game to run there is nothing I can do. Bob.

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@Catacol: I upload the draw to facebook > Strategic Command Assault on Democracy Tournament

Additional I try to send you emails from 2 different Email accounts. I hope this help.

@Jollyguy: Pity to hear about it. As I sacrifice my spot in the first draw I could now substitute this spot in Group A.

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