noob Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 H2H game, i'm the attacker, three man FO team, i plot some of my artillery, one man gets killed and the rest are rattled, radio intact, men recover, artillery access denied for the rest of the game falling off target and sporadically until the ammo runs out, attack massively compromised because of one mans death, why !!!! If this is a bug it needs top priority for a fix, if it isn't get rid of it anyway as it's starting to seriously put me off this game. Given the huge jump in artillery effectiveness in the new version of CM, to have this weapon stand or fall on the chance of one casualty to the spotting unit is just asking for a mutiny, even if it represents reality (i'd love somone to explain that) get rid of it as i dont think it's worth it given the crushing weight of frustration and anger when it happens. BFC, please allow the player to unlock the artillery from the spotting unit when it sustains casualties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 BFC, please allow the player to unlock the artillery from the spotting unit when it sustains casualties. I think the behaviour is in sync with the C2 modeling. the FO has the direct (radio) link to the artillery command center and he's the one trained to call artillery and do the spotting - which is a pretty tricky business. if he's out of business (casualty or broken radio) - bad luck. better cover next time. it would be probably pretty time consuming and complicated to get the artillery fire through some other channel - although company commanders/platoon leaders can do a lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 I think the behaviour is in sync with the C2 modeling. the FO has the direct (radio) link to the artillery command center and he's the one trained to call artillery and do the spotting - which is a pretty tricky business. if he's out of business (casualty or broken radio) - bad luck. better cover next time. it would be probably pretty time consuming and complicated to get the artillery fire through some other channel - although company commanders/platoon leaders can do a lot. Yes, i can understand what you say, but is it hard coded into the system ? or could that particular restriction be removed ?, because losing ones artillery is just too much of a price to pay for a single casualty from a gaming point of view, it's one step of realism too far in my opinion, and as you and the manual say, officers can call in strikes, so if you lose your FO they can do it, albeit with an increased time delay or less accuracy if there has to be a penalty for a FO casualty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Yes, i can understand what you say, but is it hard coded into the system ? or could that particular restriction be removed ? I don't think you can change this as a player.That's why FO's are some of your most valuable assets. some even say the whole U.S. Army's sole purpose was to protects it's FO's. because losing ones artillery is just too much of a price to pay for a single casualty from a gaming point of view, it's one step of realism too far in my opinion, and as you and the manual say, officers can call in strikes, so if you lose your FO they can do it, albeit with an increased time delay or less accuracy if there has to be a penalty for a FO casualty. Yes you can call most of the artillery (except corps level assets I believe) with officers. Just as a remark: In CMx1 this was even worse. There was no way to call artillery with an officer or so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I don't think you can legitimately call this a "feature" -- if the FO currently actively communicating with the FDC becomes hors de combat or otherwise drops off of the comms grid, clearly there would be some confusion, and the artillery battery on the other end of the line might even be effectively unavailable for a few minutes as the FDC tried to figure out what was going on with the forward observer. But it's clearly wrong for a battery to just keep dropping spotting rounds for the entire rest of the scenario, and ignore any radio calls from anyone else indefinitely. A little while ago, a beta reported that this issue had been "kicked upstairs", so it's definitely being looked at. It seems like it's an unintended side-effect of the change in 1.01 that allows FOs to call for additional spotting round(s) if needed, rather than always going to FFE after 2 spotting rounds even if they don't have a good fix on the strike. So I think it's a safe bet we'll see a fix with the next patch. And no, I have no idea how long until v1.02. Until then, be very careful with your FOs, I guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 AFAIK, the problem is not restricted to FOO's but extends to any one who is designated as the spotter. So, if you have, say, a platoon HQ spotting and it gets taken out, the artillery asset is going to be unavailable for anyone else to use for the balance of the scenario. This is clearly not a good situation to be caught up in and, allowing for some additional time delay, the asset should be freed up at some point for other spotters to use. This is certainly what I have seen occur on several occasions; there may be other results but I am not aware of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 But it's clearly wrong for a battery to just keep dropping spotting rounds for the entire rest of the scenario, and ignore any radio calls from anyone else indefinitely. My point exactly A little while ago, a beta reported that this issue had been "kicked upstairs", so it's definitely being looked at. Thanks for that info, thats put my mind at rest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 AFAIK, the problem is not restricted to FOO's but extends to any one who is designated as the spotter. So, if you have, say, a platoon HQ spotting and it gets taken out, the artillery asset is going to be unavailable for anyone else to use for the balance of the scenario. This is clearly not a good situation to be caught up in and, allowing for some additional time delay, the asset should be freed up at some point for other spotters to use. This is certainly what I have seen occur on several occasions; there may be other results but I am not aware of them. It has happened to me twice, once with a Battalion HQ that suffered two casualties but still had a radio and once with a FO that suffered one casualty and still had a radio, both times the remaining soldiers recovered morale but the artillery was denied for the rest of the game and fell innacurately until empty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 This has been reported on other threads and I hope it gets fixed. Yes have some time delay to sort out confusion but don't take the Arty battery out for the whole game... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 And no, I have no idea how long until v1.02. Until then, be very careful with your FOs, I guess. I'm not counting on it. 1.02 is sizing up to be the Mac patch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I'm not counting on it. 1.02 is sizing up to be the Mac patch. I don't think so. And in any event the Mac fix has gone gold already: Well, we wrapped it up yesterday and it's ready to go - now we just have to see if the mirrors will pick it up before the weekend. Apparently they don't work weekends, let alone late on Friday, so it's all down to timing. If they don't get it up in time we'll need to wait for Monday. Our part is done, though, at least, so it's just a matter of making it available for download. And I'm pretty sure that BFC isn't considering this Mac-specific patch 1.02, but rather some sort of interim Mac fix (v1.01A?). Now this this is done, hopefully Phil can turn his attention once again to gameplay-related stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 But it's clearly wrong for a battery to just keep dropping spotting rounds for the entire rest of the scenario, and ignore any radio calls from anyone else indefinitely. seems i missed the point on this topic - sorry noob - that's definitely not a feature ... a battery would never fire a next spotting round without having the adjustments for the prior one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 This is screwing up three games I'm playing at the moment: they've turned into "duck the random arty falling" games. Curiously, it seems like the spotting rounds have an affinity for the friendly forces. I guess this is just coincidence, but it sure feels like "hey, that spotter is not reporting, let's drop rounds closer to his last known location, maybe he'll spot them". GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I like the concept GAJ. Quite funny to think of that in a war movie scene. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 I think it's time to march on Castle Battlefront brandishing burning embers and make our demands clear and unequivocal on this subject, and if they are not carried out.......we can all slink back to the village of discontent muttering curses as we etch the words "Look after your FO's" on each others foreheads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I like the concept GAJ. Quite funny to think of that in a war movie scene. it's less fun in real life ... especially when you are on the receiving end. and s..t happens with FOs and all the calculations they need to get the shells somewhere ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Two comments to add on this. First, this pretty effectively reflects how important FO's were and how much they needed to be protected. Second, this has been brought up in the beta process. BF.C is aware. (Note that I cannot say what, if anything, will be done. Nor can I make any predictions on the timeliness of any action or lack of action. ) Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I don't think we need unrealistic "death of FO takes out arty battery" to reflect how important FO's were. Just saying. GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Churchmoor Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Bump! Any new info to this? As I lost my FO in my ongoing pbem-game (with +100 105mm still in reserve) during calling a fire mission and not being able to use arty anymore (spotting rounds still coming though) I was wondering is this issue a bug or a feature in CM:BN? If bug will it be fixed in CM:BN:CF? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryker Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Well this explains the random artillery shells in my last game. 2 random shells right in the middle of 2 of my platoons. Not a pretty site... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chainsaw Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I don´t want to be to disrespectful here, but where the hell do you place your FO,s? two times, TWO entire times have I lost members of a FOO party so I haven't been able to call in arty. By the sound of you guys complaining it's sounds like you have your FO party up in the frontline side by side with the forward post when its in combat. FO aren't trained for infantry fighting and sure as hell don't perform well when under fire. FO teams are best used a bit behind the frontline where they can work without suppression on them. Sometimes you have to move them up to the frontline where they can get hurt, but then you have to make sure they move to an area that is out of direct combat. So take more care of your FO's, thats all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I don't think so. And in any event the Mac fix has gone gold already: And I'm pretty sure that BFC isn't considering this Mac-specific patch 1.02, but rather some sort of interim Mac fix (v1.01A?). Now this this is done, hopefully Phil can turn his attention once again to gameplay-related stuff. The Mac-specific patch (1.01B) came out in August. I've been on other things for a few months, now. I have not personally been dealing with this problem, but if it's been "kicked upstairs" then it (will be / has been) looked at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 People are so wierd, and unpredictable. As they say "it takes all sorts". I am just astonished that anyone can be arguing that its acceptable that a spotter casualty can take out a whole arty battery for the whole game, converting it into a random storm of spotting rounds in the process. It's not just a casualty in a "precious FOs who should be protected anyhow" that cause this. It's any unit that calls in arty. What can I say? Astonishing. It seems like any game behaviour can be rationalised by someone. As a side note, I'm curious how you use FOs (or any spotter) in bocage country without having them on the front line, exposed to fire. Maybe you have big ladders, or portable towers, or something I didn't find yet? GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 The Mac-specific patch (1.01B) came out in August. I've been on other things for a few months, now. I have not personally been dealing with this problem, but if it's been "kicked upstairs" then it (will be / has been) looked at. Hi Phil, Thanks for chiming in. On a somewhat related note: what become of that idea of a lightweight blog/report/update/post-from-time-to-time about what you guys are actually working on? Cheers, GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I had this happen to me in a demo mission too. It obviously is a bug as I agree the FDC would call check fire if contact were lost with the FO during spotting. For all they know the FO could have called a F’d up mission and the first spotting round could of blown up the FO, and any other friendlies that may have been near him. The risk of dropping arty on friendly units would be too obscure for the fire mission. I was in the FDC for awhile like a hundred years ago so it is kind of a blur, but one spotting round with no more info after that would be an abort because there is no calculations to pass on to the battery for correction. It would be like firing blind, and that is just not protocol especially when it comes to artillery. Everyone on the team would know how to use the radio. If the radio is intact then even a pvt. would be able to call check fire. No special training needed for that. Agree he ability to cancel the mission needs to be there even if the FO dies. I am not sure, but then the whole team gets killed the fire mission stoped. If that be the case perhaps fragging is the work around till it gets fixed. I found out to keep FO alive give small cover arc right of the bat and keep him that way. He will spot better, and not draw fire getting him killed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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