Graphics Request: Breaks in Bocage

[Holman]

BTS,

Is there any way to make the breaks in bocage more visible? As it is, I've many times missed a break that was right in front of my nose because I didn't view it from the perfect angle. Likewise, I've spent forever angling around close-up views of bocage, trying to find whether any breaks existed at all. This can be especially hard when lines of bocage run parallel.

There's an argument to be made that breaks should be hard to find because they were hard to find in real life. But that doesn't really hold water, because soldiers in the game can always pathfind their way to them with unerring accuracy. Not being able to see breaks is a graphics issue, not a realism one.

Ideally, breaks in bocage should be visible as blank spots in the line when viewed from overhead (the '6' view). The holes should at least be bigger, with less foliage. Making this kind of change wouldn't have to imply any changes in line of site or game mechanics. The spots just need to be more noticeable to users' eyes.

I hope this isn't too much of a whine, and I hope it's on the plate for eventual review. Can you take a hedge clipper to those breaks?

[Broadsword56]

One good way to help this is to put dirt tiles on/around the openings in bocage. That makes them stand out better against the grasses/crops.

[sburke]

One good way to help this is to put dirt tiles on/around the openings in bocage. That makes them stand out better against the grasses/crops.

Bocage, smocage, send back the turn! Sorry couldn't resist.

I'd agree, the issue can be dealt with on a map making level to give much better info at all levels of observation if desired and from a realism standpoint you would think foot traffic would reveal where a hole is that folks have been using for egress. Just looking at how hard it is to keep traffic patterns from not showing in my dang lawn shows that well enough.

The problem wouldn't have been finding the pathways, it would be worrying about the MG trained on that gap from the other side.

[YankeeDog]

Some sort of visibility aid would be nice, though I'm not sure how possible actually making them wider is, given CMBN's mostly WYSIWYG cover modeling (i.e., actually making the gaps visually wider would also make them a wider gap for LOS and bullets)

The best trick I've been able to figure thus far us to drop the 3D model level to 'Fastest' (hit SHIFT-[ several times in-game) and then pull back to view 4. At this low level of detail, distant walls (including bocage) are depicted as a 2D green wall, and the gaps are very easy to see.

[GreenAsJade]

I don't really know that WYSIWYG cover modelling is what you think it is.

From what we've ready about how foxholes and houses work, its far from obvious that making the appearance of a gap look wider would make the cover less in that region.

I agreed that the "Fastest" detail trick is workable, though a bit of a PITA.

[GreenAsJade]

However, I've become totally confused about hedges vs low bocage. For a while I thought that I could spot it. Then suddenly, by accident, some of my guys upped and walked right through what I thought was a low bocage they were taking "cover" behind! I presume this means the cover was a lot worse than I was expecting :S

[YankeeDog]

However, I've become totally confused about hedges vs low bocage. For a while I thought that I could spot it. Then suddenly, by accident, some of my guys upped and walked right through what I thought was a low bocage they were taking "cover" behind! I presume this means the cover was a lot worse than I was expecting :S

I have had trouble differentiating low bocage from hedge on occasion as well. Best way I know if to tell the difference quickly is that while hedge is of similar height to low bocage, it is significantly thinner. So I always look edge-on at close range to check the thickness before I make any assumptions.

[Michael Emrys]

Yes, I have become uncertain about my ability to distinguish the two. Bocage is always on a low berm, is it not? Is a hedge?

Maybe at some point BFC should add berries or flowers to the hedge to make it easier to spot.

Michael

[Wego McPbem]

Like yankeedog said, looking at the width is by far the easiest way to distinguish between them. Low bocage is just as thick as high bocage but hedges are really thin.

As for breaks I really struggled with them at first but I've got much better at spotting them now. The dirt tile around the opening thing does help a lot when designers do it.

[Chris Ferrous]

I'm also having trouble distinguishing between hedges and low bocage, especially if they're used in combination.

To be honest I'm not really sure low bocage deserves its own tile except that some high bocage could be on a 2-3m bank while low bocage may be barely on a bank at all. IMHO the actual foliage should really be the same height, after all it's pretty well the same plants!

Likewise the hedges should be higher for true stock field hedges, but lower and much thinner for crop hedges. For the latter I'm using hedge with gaps in nearly every tile.

Generally I don't think designers are putting enough gaps in bocage.

BTW, what we are really lacking for all fence style tiles (including bocage) is a vehicle size gap, e.g.4-5m wide as opposed to a leg gap of 1-2m. Currently the 8m wide gap needed for vehicles is too much.

[James Crowley]

Fully agree on the low bocage/hedge issue. Very difficult to distinguish with any ease and getting the two confused can lead to all sorts of unpleasantness.

[Stingray]

Amen brothers, I too, am Hedge/Bocage challenged. BFS please fix or do somfink.

[Holien]

Amen brothers, I too, am Hedge/Bocage challenged. BFS please fix or do somfink.

I second that a motion!!!

[Childress]

I'd settle for the square of brown earth around the gap. That's enough. But it seems the implementation of this simple- and realistic- player aid is scatter shot. Also, I opened up yesterday a random QB- mechanised infantry- and all the HTs were stranded like POWs within a no-exit patch of bocage. No engineers, either. Kinda sloppy design, imo.

[Chris Ferrous]

I have to disagree with the idea that all / most (leg) gaps should be floored by dirt etc to indicate their use as a means of going into and out of the field.

Only some of the gaps would be official entry points and in all honesty they'd usually be slightly wider than the 1-2m representation we have in the game. These can be floored by dirt as proposed but many more would simply be weak points in the foliage screen, e.g. due to a dead bush, weather damage, small mammals pushing through etc. These would probably have a very narrow flattened grass appearance if frequently used for feral animal traffic, but if not would be more overgrown with weeds than the rest of the hedge because of increased light.

As I wrote earlier, what we really need is a 4-5m gap representing vehicular and cart access. Currently we can only use a wooden fence 'gate' or a blank gap for this. If used frequently then these would of course be hard ground or dirt but they'd be highly visible anyway.

I think a yard surrounded by a wall for instance but with vehicular access, i.e. a full 8m gap, looks very unrealistic at the moment. A 3-4m or at least 4-5m gap would be more reasonable.

[dieseltaylor]

Given a Sherman is approx 3 metres wide, and assuming other units and farm carts are narrower it does seem that would be a reasonable size to aim towards. : )