HMGs Setup in Buildings...Problems

[Echo]

In buildings, its difficult to get HMGs to set up pointed in the correct direction.

Using a face, or target arc command before telling the HMG to deploy, most of the time the MG is pointed 90 degrees off one way or another, and not the direction I tell them.

Or worse, sometimes they do setup pointed the right way after the 4 or 5 minute deploy time. But then inexplicable pick the gun up and start to setup in another direction, even though they have face or target arc commands. So I have to wait another 4 or 5 minutes to use the gun.

The crews usually get killed jumping all over like this, and spend very little time firing the gun.

[Blackcat]

I have never had this problem and I have never previously seen it reported. Are you sure that the direction you wnat them to face has windows or doors that they can fire out of.

[Tarquelne]

Why exactly is there such a long delay within buildings? I'm curious about the technical details on what's involved with building set-up vs. outdoor.

Maybe you need to do some carpentry (with a few grenades?) if the MG's height doesn't just happen to match window/door height? Even then you might want wider openings.

Bracing? I wouldn't think more is necessary on *my* floors... but maybe 1940's floors don't tend to be as sturdy? Not that I really know how sturdy they need to be.

Though I guess I'm not thinking about sliding around - esp. back. More crude carpentry?

What else?

[Erik Springelkamp]

Why exactly is there such a long delay within buildings? I'm curious about the technical details on what's involved with building set-up vs. outdoor.

I have a story from April 1945, Groningen, where a Canadian soldier was setting up a LMG near the window of a house, when the lady of the house came into the room with a cup of thee for the soldier, but suggested they put a little cushion between the table and the MG, to prevent scratches on the surface.

[YankeeDog]

Why exactly is there such a long delay within buildings? I'm curious about the technical details on what's involved with building set-up vs. outdoor.

Maybe you need to do some carpentry (with a few grenades?) if the MG's height doesn't just happen to match window/door height? Even then you might want wider openings.

Bracing? I wouldn't think more is necessary on *my* floors... but maybe 1940's floors don't tend to be as sturdy? Not that I really know how sturdy they need to be.

Though I guess I'm not thinking about sliding around - esp. back. More crude carpentry?

What else?

Ideally, if you have the time to really set up a defensive position in a building, you actually punch small holes through the wall to create "loopholes", which give you much less exposed firing positions than a window. If loopholes are not practical, as you note you would need to improvise a stand out of furniture or something to get the MG at the appropriate height to fire through the window.

I don't think you'd need to worry about bracing the floor -- most of the force from an MG firing is lateral, not vertical. You might have to worry about the MG and/or whatever you placed it on sliding across the floor from the recoil forces though. Most MG tripods are designed to dig into firm earth, not floorboards or a tabletop. So some sort of improvised way of keeping the whole setup from sliding around as it fires might be needed.

[Echo]

Not concerned about the setup time. Concerned about pointing the gun in the right direction.

Would post screenshot, but screenshots aren't working in the game.

[Blackcat]

"Concerned about pointing the gun in the right direction."

In case you missed it, do you have windows and/or doors in the drection you want the gun to point?

[LongLeftFlank]

Interesting. Is it possible the extra large HMG team ( 6) is to blame as the individuals reposition themselves to the new FACE command? Perhaps make this unit splittable?

[Blackcat]

Interesting. Is it possible the extra large HMG team ( 6) is to blame as the individuals reposition themselves to the new FACE command? Perhaps make this unit splittable?

I shouldn't think so otherwise other people would have picked up on it and reported it by now. I have put HMGs into buildings of every size available, but I have never seen the reported behaviour. Something uncommon is at work here.

[LeeW]

Just yesterday I saw this happen. Use the face command to get the crew in a position I want in the action square and then use the covered arc command to get the direction to face. What happened was the AI set a quick command for part of the MG crew, which I couldn't cancel. Probably could have just moved the MG crew again and got rid of the movement, but wanted to see what would happen. The part of the crew which was on the far side moved over to the MG.

This also happened with an ATG during setup. Placed on an action spot and used the face command to get the gun moved to the place I wanted in the action spot and then used the covered arc to get it facing the right direction. The AI set a move command for the gun into the building, which it was setting next, to the other side of said building, but still inside. I could not delete this move command. The gun did indeed move into the building and over to a window where it stopped and faced the proper direction. Perfect except for one little thing, it couldn't deploy within the building. So there it set until finally destroyed.

Using the face and covered arc commands together can cause some strange things to happen.

[hm_stanley]

I have seen this only in the attack on the generals mansion scenario.

I put a hmg team in the tall tower overlooking the battlefield and they never positioned themselves correctly. I tried this over and over again and finally gave up. The gunner takes a position behind the plotters and is not directly in front of the windows.

I even attempted to shoot the windows to get more firing slits and that didnt work. They always remain in back of the spotters. This was on the 7th floor of that tower.

Maybe others can confirm my findings. They did fire sometimes, but only at targets that were left of their relative position behind the spotters.

[Reiryc7]

I shouldn't think so otherwise other people would have picked up on it and reported it by now. I have put HMGs into buildings of every size available, but I have never seen the reported behaviour. Something uncommon is at work here.

I've seen it happen multiple times with mg units. I just haven't reported it as I just expect for things like this to happen. It happens sometimes in the close combat series, gi combat, eric youngs squad assault and in this title (cm:bn).

I'm sure it's not an easy thing to fix for the ai to always know where to point the MG when there are multiple targets in different directions that it could point at.

One other thing I've noticed is that stone buildings seem to offer less protection for units inside than for units behind a hedge or bocage.

[Wego McPbem]

I've seen this twice with the same hmg crew in a pbem game I'm playing at the moment. They go into deploying for a few turns, then rotate or move around and start deploying again. This goes on in a seemingly endless loop with the mg never setting up. It happened on the 2nd floors of buildings and there were definitely windows in the right place.

[womble]

I have never had this problem and I have never previously seen it reported. Are you sure that the direction you wnat them to face has windows or doors that they can fire out of.

It has been reported before. I've seen it too, and think it's about LOF/LOS issues with windows, and the placement of the MG team's elements on their Action Point.

[Echo]

Wego McPbem, yours is a better description of what I'm seeing.