Capt Cliff Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I was putting together a quick battle when I noticed that the German equipment list doesn't contact any light flak options. I mean no 20mm Quad and single gun light flak or I couldn't find them. Also there's no flakwagons nor whirlblewinds. If someones found them I'd like to know where to look. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai007 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 There are none in for the base game. I have heard rumors that they will make it in for the Market Garden module. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Cliff Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 There are none in for the base game. I have heard rumors that they will make it in for the Market Garden module. Huh? So there's no triple-A except 88mm heavy flak units and MG's on vehicles, right? Boy that looks like a massive oversite. So I need to spend another $55.00 inorder to get 20mm or 37mm flak guns to protect my German units. If it blows down to the Normandy game and not just stays at the Market-Garden level. I say a patch is required. Oh, the USA lacks the .50 cal Quad units, towed and SP M16 HT unit. Yeegads! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 There is no ground to air combat. It's not like have AA units would make a difference, anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Cliff Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 There is no ground to air combat. It's not like have AA units would make a difference, anyway. Oh come on, give me a break. No air to ground combat?? You can buy aircraft to bomb and strafe but you have no AAA to defend against it??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokossovski Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Its a really big game as it is, especially for a small outfit like Battlefront. The more they put in the more they would have to delay the game, so they had to make some hard choices about what they had time to include, design, and test. They'll add more content as they add modules. We'll have to pay for them of course, but we're already getting excellent value for money, and I don't mind forking out from time to time to keep them in business. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I think I remember BF saying that it's abstracted, lots of HMG's or some flak will make air support ... do .. something, memory isn't really clear at the moment. Anyone remember that or know where they said it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I think I remember BF saying that it's abstracted, lots of HMG's or some flak will make air support ... do .. something, memory isn't really clear at the moment. Anyone remember that or know where they said it? No, there is no abstracted AAA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Cliff Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 The main point is that German 20mm quad, singles and flakwagon AAA, and the US .50 Quad HT and towed carriage are missing. That means the German is the only side with AAA and that's the 88mm flak gun. The USA has none, bumpkis, zippo ... a moot point since the German Air force rarely showed over Normandy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I assume they didn't have the time to do them, what with these guns requiring separate animations. I like to see them too and fully expect that we will, in due course. They don't need to do any AA work as far as I am concerned even though that would've been cool. But for a ground combat sim not essential. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narses Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Huh? So there's no triple-A except 88mm heavy flak units and MG's on vehicles, right? Boy that looks like a massive oversite. So I need to spend another $55.00 inorder to get 20mm or 37mm flak guns to protect my German units. If it blows down to the Normandy game and not just stays at the Market-Garden level. I say a patch is required. Oh, the USA lacks the .50 cal Quad units, towed and SP M16 HT unit. Yeegads! I agree this is an oversight. Especially the single 2 cm on its carrier. Remember SPR? The Germans used these against ground targets as they did not have a true heavy 50 cal (only the 7.9s MG42 on a "heavy" mount"). I don't mind no grd to air though. Its probably not necessary of course some quad 2cms mounted would be nice. They could fire on their own. But against grd targets devastating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny(FGM) Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I agree this is an oversight. Especially the single 2 cm on its carrier. Remember SPR? The Germans used these against ground targets as they did not have a true heavy 50 cal (only the 7.9s MG42 on a "heavy" mount"). I don't mind no grd to air though. Its probably not necessary of course some quad 2cms mounted would be nice. They could fire on their own. But against grd targets devastating. Oh yes, saving private ryan, that well heralded, verified documentary that should be the cornerstone for any historically accurate normandy game 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 It has also been argued that battlefields weren't where the AAA got deployed, and that it was ineffective at deterring ground attack where it was involved on the battlefield. So what people are asking for is effectively the edge case of AAA being intentionally used as meatchoppers. I make no comment on the validity or otherwise of the argument. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Cliff Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 It has also been argued that battlefields weren't where the AAA got deployed, and that it was ineffective at deterring ground attack where it was involved on the battlefield. So what people are asking for is effectively the edge case of AAA being intentionally used as meatchoppers. I make no comment on the validity or otherwise of the argument. During the seige of Bastogne the quad .50 cal M-16's were used extensivly to hold sections of the line that either couldn't be held by infantry or there weren't enough grunts to hold the line. It appears from TO&E's I have found on the web and other locations that triple A was assigned at the Division level, generally a company sized unit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hetzer21 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 It has also been argued that battlefields weren't where the AAA got deployed, and that it was ineffective at deterring ground attack where it was involved on the battlefield. So what people are asking for is effectively the edge case of AAA being intentionally used as meatchoppers. I make no comment on the validity or otherwise of the argument. I've also read combat reports of the Waffen-SS where 20mm quads were used very effectively against massed inf assaults on the eastern front. FWIW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narses Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Oh yes, saving private ryan, that well heralded, verified documentary that should be the cornerstone for any historically accurate normandy game Its always good to hear from an expert. So your saying the German 2 cm wasn't used against ground tarhets ? I only mention SPR as that was a good representation of using the 2 cm that most have seen. The use of the 2cm against ground targets appears again and again in those weekly movies showing in German movie theaters during WW2 (available from IHF). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I've also read combat reports of the Waffen-SS where 20mm quads were used very effectively against massed inf assaults on the eastern front. FWIW. Perhaps a clarification is in order: it's argued that AAA wasn't encountered very often on Normandy battlefields. Ostfront don't enter into it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Not oversight since we didn't accidentally leave them out They were left out on purpose because they're one of those things which involves a disproportional amount of effort to simulate to the realistic use of them within CM's timeframe. To reinforce how difficult these are to do and do right, we scratched AAA off our list of features for CM:BN sometime in 2009 IIRC. We knew this was a bite we couldn't chew for the first release. Our time was much better spent on practically anything else you see in the game now. Not to say we wouldn't have liked to get them in, because we would have. BTW, the US .50cal that we have in the game right now were all assigned to AAA units. At this point in the war there were no .50cals assigned for ground support. We included it because we already had .50cals in hand, they are unquestionably effective as ground support weapons (which is why they replaced the M1917s as the war went on), and because there was no argument to leave them out. Similarly, the German Flak36 was used as an AT Gun and so we included that as well. The other AAA weapons and vehicles were not regularly used in the ground role and can wait their turn to get into the game. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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