Kauz Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I tested the demo very intensive. Here my first impressions: A) WELL done: It's too bad about ...: C) BAD: D) very questionable: A) WELL done: 0) Different aims/objectives for both player parties 1) finally smoke for infantry ! nice (but should be able to drop at a special place with more range) 2) i saw one guy of a retreating infantry group dropping a handgrenade before falling back. Nice AI work... 3) the many Artillery options are a nice invention! (Especially that i am allowed to use it after the initional bombardement, too) 4) Animation of every single soldier (wasn´t necessary and hard to engineer i think, but well done) 5) the bocage thing is interessting 6) seem you put a lot of energy into the details of units (example: interior of a tank) 7) the "assaul"t move order is interesting/useful (auto-split of unit) It's too bad about ...: 8) No option to play "allied" vs "axis" with more than 2 players ? (for example: 3 vs 3 - everybody commands his own units---calculation put all together ) 9) The scripting in the editor is good idea, but: in general NO AI/KI ...what happens in case a scenario editor does NOT want to create a script?...this is unfortunate 10) In the DEMO: no turnbased playing via TCP/IP/LAN for 2 players...WTF no units in the scenarioeditor....so no testing of that one C) BAD: 11) i wasn´t able to rotate a single trench element (that is important cause trench isn´t abstract with the protection ability-->you are only protected if the trench wall is between you and the enemy) 12) sometimes i am 100% sure to be able to shoot at special point...but it is forbidden...so i have to move my units randomly around until it is possible...even i use a single unit 25 meters in front of the objective (example: PSW 20-50 meters in front of houses in "closing the pockets") 13) no tank information of armor-thickness/angle and gun-penetration info anymore ? only some small strange low information icons... This reminds me at "Theater of war". This game had a lot of weak points especially the overpowered tank in contrary to the weak infantry or the Pak /ATG units and the leak of emplacements for these guns 14) sometimes the mouse cursor and positioning of orders work wrong/ not precisly (strange things happen there) 15) there is no real "advance" order... (the assault is to slow and only for last 50 meters; the "hunt" order stops the movement of a unit completly after spotting enemy...it is like going on "contact" in old CM games...) I took the "quick" order as alternative (they run fast to the position, do not stop and still shoot sometimes). With that "Quick" order i was able to kill 2 shermans in a row with a Panzerschreck team while they were still running. 16) no artillery setting without seeing? In old games it was possible ( with more receiving time or less accuracy). It isn´t plausible why a guy is able to set artillery on a viewable part of a house but not on the other side of the house in 5-10 meters distance. 17) The infantry runs most time clustered or in lines. As enemy in real life it would be the easiest thing to kill these formation types. With one bullet i can penetrate several guys in a row... 18) the machine guns ... especially the heavy MG (42) always have very low power.......again.... (a BAR is practically able to bring 40-80 shots per minute accurate into target and a light MG42, if i remember correct, is able to bring practically about 300-350 shots per minute accurate into targets - the burst of the MG42 with the first 3-5 shots is point accurate like one shot of a K98k ) - D) Questionable: 19) i thought there is real terraforming in this game... why you used these funny looking and low protection providing "mole" foxholes and trenches instead of the real ones? 20) 90% of my feeled play time i used "quick" and "assault", 5 % "fast", 4% hunt and slow, 1% "Move". This worked well for me and my play-style no matter if defender or attacker. Is it supposed to be like that? 21) i wasn´t able to change already given movements order by drag and drop like in old CM- games. 22) sometimes i think the game wants to simulate detailed and correct otherwise the simulating of every single infantry man wouldn´t be necessary. but then i see funny things like guys throwing a handgrenade less then a meter in front of them and they do not get harmed by it. Or a rifle nade or Panzerfaust useable on a tank which is only 0-1 meter away. 23) blinds try spotting: i have 3 guys (not supressed and without special spotting area) and there is a enemy guy running straight towards them....*i can hear his running. Well it was raining but they were first able to see and fight him when he showed up at a place 5-6 meters in front of them and still running. If they are able to see a guy enaging them only 5-6 meters before he is ramming his bayonnent into them then they need either glasses like bull´s -eye or they got already shot into their eyes or they were born without eyes and only trained to shoot by ear-contact. 24) ambushs with Panzerfaust infantry are not very successfull even if the tank is driving straight to my bocage ambush(tried splitting into Anti tank team,too). The guys prefer to fight infantry and need to long to switch to the panzerfaust to kill a tank 3 meters in front of them---> then they die by the aimbot machine guns of the tank. 25) on the other side i had to laugh when i was giving a Tank hunter team the order to blast a tank which was in sight and about 30 meters away---> instead of shooting him with their Panzerfaust they blast a hole into a hedge 1 meter in front of them without getting killed by that and they start assault towards tank while spraying foe infantry down ---they reached the tank and stopped behind him----one was 2-4 meters away and got killed before he was able to use his Pzfaust and the other guy was only 1-2 meter away from tank and fired his Panzerfaust (which should detonate after 5 meters distance in reality) and hit the tank. This wasn´t only a roundabout way...it was like a rambo film and it wasn´t logical to use panzerfaust 1 meter away from tank and not realistic that this faust detonated at this low distance. 26) It seems to me that tanks are able to shoot with the same accuracy on other tanks no matter if they are driving or standing 27) i saw a blind PSW in "closing the pocket" in the city on the street taking very long time to spot a shooting foe half track in a distance of 10-15 meters AND after the spotting he need about 4 salvos with his 20mm KWK to get the first hits on it and then another 4-5 hitting salvos to force the enemy to bail out...and 1 more salvo to let him burn..... OMG If i would drive there it would take maximum 3-4 seconds to spot him. i would hit him directly with the first salvo (only 10 meters come on !!!) and after 2-3 salvos of my 20mm the guys in there are dead and the car is a burning wreck. 28) There seems to be the option in game to heal guys and to take a weapon from another unit (example: a normal inf squad took the Panzerschreck of a dead member of Panzerschreck team). How to handle this (example: how can the Panzerschreck team ammo bearer spend his ammo to the new Panzerschreck carrier in the infantry squad? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 25) on the other side i had to laugh when i was giving a Tank hunter team the order to blast a tank which was in sight and about 30 meters away---> instead of shooting him with their Panzerfaust they blast a hole into a hedge 1 meter in front of them without getting killed by that and they start assault towards tank while spraying foe infantry down ---they reached the tank and stopped behind him----one was 2-4 meters away and got killed before he was able to use his Pzfaust and the other guy was only 1-2 meter away from tank and fired his Panzerfaust (which should detonate after 5 meters distance in reality) and hit the tank. This wasn´t only a roundabout way...it was like a rambo film and it wasn´t logical to use panzerfaust 1 meter away from tank and not realistic that this faust detonated at this low distance. "Blast" command should probably be renamed "breach." It is not an attack order, but a movement order that is meant to be used across an obstacle like a hedgerow, stone fence, or the wall of building to blast a hole in the obstacle. To use it, move your unit equipped with explosives against the obstacle and then issue a blast order somewhere on the opposite side of the obstacle (or into the interior of the building you want to breach). If you want your unit to use grenades and satchel charges (if they have them) against tanks, you have to move them right next to the tank. They will attack automatically. The movement command you use doesn't matter, but I recommend "fast." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kauz Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 29) why i am not able to set a shooting zone and aim on a specific target in this zone like games before? and what happened to the Vehicle shooting zone ? 30) others complain about the 60 mm mortars. The germans had 50mm and theses were NOT effective. It seems to me that the 60mm mortars are adjusting too fast to a target (in direct line of fire) and then they are very very very accurate. (The low amount of explosives of this round i do not have to mention.) 31) after i was forced (cause of silly DEMO restriction might) to fight in real time against my human second player via LAN, i wasn´t allowed to use ESC button to pause the game.....i thought each of us is allowed to "Pause" 32) what happened to the hull-down drive order for vehicles? what happened to the drive-shoot-retreat order for vehicles? @akd: thanks for the tip...i only wanted to order my tank hunter team to kill the tank with the Panzerfaust (distance was about 30 meters) ...but it seems that it takes hours that they feel motivated to use these if they are next to the maximum range of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kauz Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 33) i had problems/graphic bugs in the scenario editor of the DEMO...anyone else? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 33) i had problems/graphic bugs in the scenario editor of the DEMO...anyone else? They purposely left some stuff out to keep the DLed size of the demo smaller. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillLight Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Kauz, That's a big list of things, and many of them are answered in other threads so you might want to do some searching if you'd like answers to everything. But to cut down the list of unanswered ones, here are a couple: 8. Co-play, as BFC call it, is a very big feature to implement, and in BFC's view would not be cost effective unless a military organisation paid for it. In other words, implementing it would take very long, they will not gain enough added sales income for it to be viable. 12. Area fire is not to one spot but rather to one action spot (8x8m square). The tactical AI then spreads the fire intelligently around that action spot. So if you click on a part of the map, and the red line "jumps" to somewhere next to it, the AI will still fire (also) at where you clicked. As opposed to CMx1, CMx2 actually traces each bullet's path, and even ricochets, so area fire from a machine gun for example is done quite nicely even when the red line isn't right where you want it. Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kauz Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 34) Seems that explosives like handgrenades and satchel charges which gonna be used in a video are already away from "having"-list at the beginning of the video @Mord: thx for answer...i only wanted to ensure that the guys know there might be problem with @WillLight: thx for the answer 8) can not imagine that it could be difficult (after so many years) finally allowing that more than 1 player is allowed to buy, deploy and give orders for the axis party. Would be the easiest thing to implement and the most interesting for the gameplay 12) you say the trajectory of every bullet is exact... so why i am not allowed to give exact shooting order with my tank ?... why it is most time incomprehensible that i have a direct line of sight to my supposed target but not allowed to set the firing order?(for example a house i wanna suppress by a amored car which has distance of 30-50 meters) It is always gambling what unit is allowed to give suppress fire on a special place or house... It isn´t conceivable in this game for me where a unit is allowed to "see"/shoot! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kauz Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 New categories: E) ULTRA BAD 35) there seems to be no "Pausing option" for "real time multiplaying" in the Main-game, too. 36) addendum for 10): seems to be not only the DEMO which isn´t able to play mulitplayer via TCP/IP. Main game is doomed too!!! F) Funny: 37) watch the infantry moving while they do the "Hunt"-order.... they look like some apes which search for the restroom/toilettes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatoichi Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 *Scottish accent on* 'We're doomed!' *Scottish accent off* I loved Dad's Army. I also love the 'game is fundamentally flawed because you haven't programmed it in precisely the way I require it to be programmed for me to get maximum enjoyment from' posts. I'm guessing they'll stop being so much fun pretty soon though. No the game is not perfect. However, what it does do, it mostly does extremely well. Is there room for improvement? Of course there is. Is having this game as it is now better than not having the game at all? Well, I believe so, but like all of the above, it's simply my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 12) you say the trajectory of every bullet is exact... so why i am not allowed to give exact shooting order with my tank ?... why it is most time incomprehensible that i have a direct line of sight to my supposed target but not allowed to set the firing order? Addressed elsewhere: because it is exact. If your tank commander can see (that is, has a direct line of sight), it doesn't mean that the gunner can lay his sights on it. Thinking about it, if you've got a tank with a commander's pintle-mounted gun, there might be instances when you can Target Light, but not Target, because the main gun might be obstructed while the higher-up cupola weapon can see. There are German Tank Destroyers with 'periscope' optics on their roof; the parallax between those and the gun axis can leave the TD shooting at the cover they're behind if care isn't taken. ...for example a house...It is always gambling what unit is allowed to give suppress fire on a special place or house... I've had some issues which seem to be due to firing at (and around) some types of building, specifically, the "barn" type with one big door on one side and a couple of windows and a person-sized door in the back. I think the 'walls' of the barn may be obscuring the 'interior' which is where the targetting point wants to be. It isn´t conceivable in this game for me where a unit is allowed to "see"/shoot! It's important to remember that Line of Sight (LOS) and Line of Fire (LOF) are not, necessarily, the same in all cases. It's been known for quite some time now that there would be no co-operative MP in the game, and there has never been an option to pause RT play vs another human. A lot of what you're missing is down to your perceptions or inexperience with the game. For example: Mortars behave differently to what you expect from CMx1; neither is ever going to be a precise, accurate, model of what really happened, so arguing about the difference is, frankly, pointless. Arguing about the relative points cost of American 60mm, British 2" and German 50mm mortars, based on their actual effectiveness in-game is valid, as are discussions on how to get the current model changed to be closer to 100% accurate. Beyond that, you're arguing 'taste', about which there will never be agreement and if you don't like the new flavour, the original will always be there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 "why it is most time incomprehensible that i have a direct line of sight to my supposed target but not allowed to set the firing order?" Well, there are two possibilities. One: the game is fundamentally flawed and those people posting on here saying they are enjoying it are either idiots or part of BF conspiracy. Two: you need to think and research more because actually the problem is with you and your expectations rather than the game. Which do you think is more likely to be true? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kauz Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 @womble: that is a plausible explanation... on the other side this couldn´t be the solution for all... especially if you think of the option that the german 8-wheeled PSW armored car is spotting and aiming via the paralell gun-optics after the commander close the turret hatch... @Blackrat: Which do you think is more likely to be true? Well...let me think... i guess the political correct answer is option 2.... but to be honest i believe more in a variant of option 1 (what do you mean with BF conspiracy?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placebo Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 "13) no tank information of armor-thickness/angle and gun-penetration info anymore ? only some small strange low information icons" I have to agree with this one, I loved the detailed info in CM1 for any of your own units. Would love to have this back P.S. I have $$ burning a hole in my pocket, as soon as I the download option appears I will be buying CMN!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 @womble: that is a plausible explanation... on the other side this couldn´t be the solution for all... especially if you think of the option that the german 8-wheeled PSW armored car is spotting and aiming via the paralell gun-optics after the commander close the turret hatch... You mentioned the PSW was shooting at a building. I believe there may be a bug with at least one type of building, and have reported it to the tech support guys. Perhaps that's why your AC couln't area target a particular structure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kauz Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Bug: 38) LOF/LOS object blockage: Closing the pocket: My Panther downhill left flank next to bridge/town shooting direction right enemy tank spawn on a M10. Both (M10 and panther) can see each other and shoot on each other. But always they both hit a haystack between them (about 70 meters? in front of panther). It always look like that grenade hit/explode about 2-3 meter above the haystack...but there is free air.... Explanation: This hackstack must be a transparent for the commander and gunners that they believe they can fight each other ...and after they shoot they hit an imaginary wall above the haystack and this barrier is made of 200mm tank steel 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cull Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Kauz, That's a big list of things, and many of them are answered in other threads so you might want to do some searching if you'd like answers to everything.Cheers There's also a "first impressions" sticky thread, and a lot of these are covered there already. Just sayin'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.