Panther vs. Sherman

[Taki]

I just played a few Times the "Closing the Pocket" Scenario as German Attacker. On ething i noticed was the very High Accurate Fire and First Hits with the Panther Tanks.

On around 800m a Stationary Panther Hit 3 Shermans on First Shoot. No Laddershooting. Its Crew Experience was Experienced.

Here the Exat Data:

Range of Engament: 771m to 780m

Enemy: 3 Shermans M4A3 75mm KwK

own Unit: PantherVA (early) Zug HQ with Experienced Crew

Panther was stationary, button up but got almost similar Shooting Results with Unbuttened.

A i forgot, Sherman was fully visible, not hull down positions.

But isnt that a tad to accurate? Same for the Shermans on that Marders?

[Sergei]

The KwK-42 has a very flat trajectory at those ranges. It has a higher muzzle velocity than Tiger's 88! If it's a veteran crew and clear LOS, it should hit most of the time. Of course, three shots is not much of a statistical sample... the next three shots might have missed.

[ChrisND]

3 shots isn't enough to determine anything. Without sampling a huge number of shots in stable conditions, nothing concrete can be determined, if indeed the accuracy at that range is even an issue.

[LemoN]

3 shots isn't enough to determine anything. Without sampling a huge number of shots in stable conditions, nothing concrete can be determined, if indeed the accuracy at that range is even an issue.

Well, afaik the Kwk43 L/71 had a hit ratio of 99% (in testing) against a stationary 1x1m target at 1000m.

So I don't think the accuracy of the KwK42 L/70 would be lower than 90-95% at 1000m.

[Wuehlmaus]

At least you had hits. I had a sherman rushed to axis side and did encounter the last surviving panther there. The panther did not fire and the sherman closed to about 20m. But instead of targeting the panther, the sherman used its main gun to pick-off nearby routed infantry. Only manual targeting the panther solved the stale mate.

The panther had received a number of turret hits and therefore the gun might have been be disabled. But how did the sherman know?

[gunnergoz]

Sherman Gunner to TC: "Hey Sarge, I thought he was one of ours! He was full of holes."

[LemoN]

I had a very similar thing today, Panther drove past a couple of houses, I send a fresh Sherman (100% ok, didn't even fire a shot yet) around and move it into the flank of the panther. The Sherman is approx. 100m away from the Panther and spots it.... and does nothing apart firing it's MG's at the Panther.

In the end the Sherman got a front turret penetration that killed the loader and injured three of the crew. I drove it around a second time (after sending a couple of infatrny in the open field so the panther would be pointing in a different direction again and the Sherman didn't fire again. It received a front upper hull penetration which killed the radio operator. After being hit it suddenly fired and killed the Panther in one shot.

Funny, that Sherman, with two men dead, with two MG's destroyed and optics/radio/tracks damaged knocked out two Marders and both Panthers!

[Baneman]

I had a Panther KO a Sherman at about 700-800m while Fast moving down the hill. It did not halt at all.

I was under the impression that WWII era tanks rarely fired on the move and even more rarely hit if they tried it, due to non-stabilised guns.

This guy fired and hit 1st shot at about a 30-40 degree angle off the direction of travel.

[Gryphonne]

I've had a panther knock out 3 M-10s from 200m (starting range), while moving fast towards me :') I'm not complaining, but would like to ask whether such a thing would be possible in WW2?

Also, I don't notice much effect from the damaged or knocked out optics?

[LemoN]

Also, I don't notice much effect from the damaged or knocked out optics?

Quite frankly, a damaged or knocked out optic wouldn't have much effect on ranges below 2-400m. The Zielschiene would be enough for that.

[Kat Johnston]

On the general topic of Panther vs Sherman, one of my Panthers was immobilised at the top of the hill from a hit by a Sherman across the map and its 75mm cannon was destroyed a minute or two later. It stayed there for the rest of the game under continuous fire from Shermans and M10s (well, usually only one at a time) - its optics and radio were destroyed, but apart from that it just sat there with rounds bouncing off it for forty minutes. I was impressed the crew didn't bail, particularly as the other Panther was destroyed next to them and they ended up surrounded by burning Marders.

[Wiggum]

On the general topic of Panther vs Sherman, one of my Panthers was immobilised at the top of the hill from a hit by a Sherman across the map and its 75mm cannon was destroyed a minute or two later. It stayed there for the rest of the game under continuous fire from Shermans and M10s (well, usually only one at a time) - its optics and radio were destroyed, but apart from that it just sat there with rounds bouncing off it for forty minutes. I was impressed the crew didn't bail, particularly as the other Panther was destroyed next to them and they ended up surrounded by burning Marders.

I had a Marder crew bail out after taking some 50.cal hits and suffering one wounded.

But yeah, ther is a issue with the moral of vehicle crews i think.

[Knaust1]

I finished the scenario Closing the Pocket with all Panthers and Marder destroyed with the loss of only one Sherman

My tanks were positioned at the very northern edge (about 1000 mts), but under tree coverage and using the hide-and-seek tactics

The two Shwerman 76(W) did the work