Broadsword56 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The latest game from Panther games, Battles from the Bulge will be a perfect match for any CMBN campaign. I just bought Battles from the Bulge and installed a St. Lo bocage custom scenario to mess around with, while waiting for CMBN to come out. Can anyone here explain to me the actual mechanics one would use to pick a battalion-level battle to play tactically, extract data from the BFTB operational game, then get data back into BFTB so it would be able to incorporate that and resume the operational game? I realize that for CMBN one would still have to create the map and OOBs, etc. But I'm just asking about the data in and out of BFTB, to see whether anyone has explored and/or figure this out yet, how feasible it will be, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Originally Posted by Bil Hardenberger The latest game from Panther games, Battles from the Bulge will be a perfect match for any CMBN campaign.Would be interested too in what Bil has up his sleeve for this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 You can PM me if you need a map maker. I have always been interested in campaign play, and concur with those that like historical TO&E with fictional compaigns. It would seem to me that campaigns have a real chance now with the new RealTime feature. I have been and always will be a PBEM/WEGO Btn level player, but meta campaigns may require faster resolutions to keep momentum up. Off the top O my head... Each player picks a side. Ami or Germie. Keeps that side for the duration. When a player "logs on" to campaign for a session, he is assigned a company on the line. He fights that Co in RT against an enemy player. The battle is folded into the Btn results and moved into the Regimental and Divisional pool. 3 Co per Btn 3 Btn per Reg 3 Reg per Div 27 players per division. 54 players online at once and you have a divisional contest being played at the Company level. Certain players could opt for Btn RT battles if they so desire and can find opponents. Personally I would use CMBN in RT mode to resolve almost everything, and use the campaign map more as a tool for planning strategic moves. Less number crunching and dice rolling. I had decades of that before computers and am not looking forward to going back there. - Once the Divisional objectives are reached for either side, the campaign resets for the next one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Noob was looking at something alone these lines https://sites.google.com/site/cmbnoperationcarentan/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Would be interested too in what Bil has up his sleeve for this All will be revealed in good time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Would be interested too in what Bil has up his sleeve for this His armies ??? Just too good to resist 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Dwyer Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 This tool has been around for a very long time, I have never tried it but it might fit the operational level. http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/adc2/ADC2-Main.html I also enjoy making maps and would be willing to do some. (despite my post count I have been hanging out here since CM:BO) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I'm taking note of all the map making volunteers. That is usually the sticking point for these types of endeavors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CbEagle Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Throw my name in the hat, did a lot of maps for cmmc1 & 2 so I know how important the mapmakers are to keep an operation going. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 The entire area of the St. Lo campaign (from the Vire in the west to the Elle in the east, and from N to S) is at most 12 x 12 km. That's "only" 9 maps of 4x4 to cover the entire thing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 No I don't have a copy of the ruleset.. too bad. I actually grabbed all of these off of the Panther Games BETA forum, from when I was trying to talk Dave into creating an Operational Gaming tool for use with a tactical game (like CM). Now that would be amazing!! I wonder if BF and Panther could ever get together for a "operational module" with their two systems. The best of both worlds! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I'm taking note of all the map making volunteers. That is usually the sticking point for these types of endeavors. Wondering sir now that CMBN has over 300+ maps could one not just take the hex of the (operational level game system) and use one of the pre-made generic maps with the odd little tweaking? Just curious I know your working on a MC but how should one start getting familiar with the BOTB system? Should be just familiar with the basic UI of the system or should one be looking into the scenario design system also? As an alternative for a small group what good VASSAL or board wargame would be suited to a brigade level operation with small battle calculated with CMBN? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 As an alternative for a small group what good VASSAL or board wargame would be suited to a brigade level operation with small battle calculated with CMBN? I'm using (and highly recommend) St. Lo (West End Games), out of print but available many places online (I got mine from Noble Knight Games). Its scale (306 m per hex, counters are battalions and companies) fits perfectly with CMBN, where a comfortable size for a large battle would be, say, a battalion attacking a company-plus. I've been playing it solitaire and it's excellent for solitaire play. Once CMBN is released, I hope to map the sector where the US 35th ID and part of the 29th ID fought the German 352nd ID (since we don't have the German paratroop units available yet for the eastern part of that campaign). I've done some preliminary work using Google Earth, and found that this entire AO fits within two 4km x 4km maps plus one 2 km x 4km map. Those are still large maps to make for CMBN, so if possible I'm going to map them with just the elevations and basic terrain, then bite off smaller areas for battle scenarios and map only those in fine detail. If anyone is interested, I can share the Cyberboard module for St. Lo, and I also have made an initial draft of conversion rules for using St Lo with CMBN -- they'll require some tweaking and testing, though, as time goes on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I'm using (and highly recommend) St. Lo (West End Games), out of print but available many places online (I got mine from Noble Knight Games). Its scale (306 m per hex, counters are battalions and companies) fits perfectly with CMBN, where a comfortable size for a large battle would be, say, a battalion attacking a company-plus. I've been playing it solitaire and it's excellent for solitaire play. Once CMBN is released, I hope to map the sector where the US 35th ID and part of the 29th ID fought the German 352nd ID (since we don't have the German paratroop units available yet for the eastern part of that campaign). I've done some preliminary work using Google Earth, and found that this entire AO fits within two 4km x 4km maps plus one 2 km x 4km map. Those are still large maps to make for CMBN, so if possible I'm going to map them with just the elevations and basic terrain, then bite off smaller areas for battle scenarios and map only those in fine detail. If anyone is interested, I can share the Cyberboard module for St. Lo, and I also have made an initial draft of conversion rules for using St Lo with CMBN -- they'll require some tweaking and testing, though, as time goes on. Very interesting. I would love to see what you ahve done with this idea. Our wargaming group has about 6 guys interested a small operational game. We were trying with Battle of Normany in vassal just using the Omaha scenario. Does St. Lo have a Vassal module. I have not used Cyberboard before. Pretty much the same? Thank so much!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Vassal has the module. Perfect scale. Just the 1986 counters and map seemed dated though ;( 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Don't let the age of the game dissuade you -- the system was ahead of its time, and its fanbase has wished for years that it had also been used to make additional WWII games of this scale. It's also a very clear and logical system and easy to learn. As for aethetics -- well, now we have CMBN, so we can see the battles in all their tactical splendor. Where did you find the Vassal module, RCMP? I had looked for it and only managed to get the Cyberboard version. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 It was under the module section at the vassal home site. Yes your right the rule set is very good especailly for the 1986 era Is cyberboard superiour to Vassal? Love to hear about your your rule conversions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Another good reason to use an op-level boardgame in combination with CMBN: It allows the artillery and FO spotters provided in CMBN to play their full historical role. A number of posters on the forum have been complaining that their FOs can't get proper LOS or spot artillery rounds as well as they ought to. But this isn't the fault of the game -- the Bocage country greatly limits the artillery spotting in CMBN, as it did in real life. The best spotting in the campaign came from the major hilltops and certain well-placed church steeples. But since these FO positions were typically a few km behind the front line, this type of spotting from "off-map" isn't represented within a typical CMBN battle. We only get the type of spotting that happened when FOs were assigned to the front-line units, and this is only one type (and the less effective) type that played a role. Possible solution: Make a 4km x 4km map, and then mark out a smaller battle area using the landmarks and/or labels function. (It's an honor system; the PBEM players have to agree not to move outside the boundaries). The main setup zones are within this battle area, and that's where the highly-detailed scenery is. But since the game engine considers the rest of the 4km map "playable," we can also have some tiny setup spots in the rear for any FO posts that would have had LOS to the battle area -- certain towns and hilltops, etc. One nice feature of Joe Balkoski's St. Lo boardgame: He marked all the strategic church steeples on the game map, and they play a role for artillery spotting in the boardgame, too. So when setting up a CMBN battle, one can calculate whether there would be any FO positions with LOS to the battlefield, and place them accordingly. Then the off-map artillery in CMBN could really reach its full potential in battles -- and it would re-balance the game for the Germans, whose advantage in spotting terrain helped them neutralize the US advantage in armor and troop numbers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 https://sites.google.com/site/cmbnnormandy44/ there is this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 As diesel has pointed out im currently running an operation using John Tillers Panzer Campaigns Normandy 44 and CMBN. The link at my signature contains a website explaining the system, the idea was to create a method that allowed two players or teams of players and an umpire the ability to play CM at an operational level without the paperwork. The operation i am running at the moment covers 24 hours around the town of Carentan on June 13th and has seven players per side with an overall commander for both teams. If anyone wishes to participate i can put them on a reserve list in case of drop outs. Also if anyone wishes to use this system feel free. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejetset Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 As diesel has pointed out im currently running an operation using John Tillers Panzer Campaigns Normandy 44 and CMBN. The link at my signature contains a website explaining the system, the idea was to create a method that allowed two players or teams of players and an umpire the ability to play CM at an operational level without the paperwork. The operation i am running at the moment covers 24 hours around the town of Carentan on June 13th and has seven players per side with an overall commander for both teams. If anyone wishes to participate i can put them on a reserve list in case of drop outs. Also if anyone wishes to use this system feel free. Hi noob. Just to let everyone know. I'm currently in on this as one of the Allies. Noob has created a very tight system and it is going to be a lot of fun. ..... If there are any German players reading this ... GET YOUR PLAN TOGETHER AND DEPLOY! ... The Allied players are starting to get fat with all the great French hospitality in Carentan! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hey, how is this campaign going? Inquiring minds want to know... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hey, how is this campaign going? Inquiring minds want to know... Thanks for showing an interest, it's going really well, it only took ten days from team recruitment, deployment and movement to the first round of CM battles so my first goal was achieved, to create a system thats simple and quick. One unforseen occurence which i couldn't of scripted better was that both teams commanders are servicemen which adds a certain spice to the events. At the moment there are three CM battles progressing quite quickly, here are some screenshots, one of the area of operations and three showing the CM battlemaps of the first contacts from the perspective of the advancing Axis forces. The CM battlemaps are 2 x 1 km and represent the two operational hexes the opposing forces occupy. The six hexes with walls represent a fortified line so the Allied CM units occupying any of those hexes get trenches, barbed wire, sandbags and foxholes in the event of a CM battle. Its been such a learning process running this that ive nearly finished a revised version of the system which simplifies it even further, the object being that anybody that fancies themselves as an umpire should be able to run it with the minimum paperwork for themselves and the players, in fact most information passing between the players and umpire will be pictorial so all thats needed is a decent paint package and they are ready to go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hey, how is this campaign going? Inquiring minds want to know... Here is the third picture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 What happened to this campaign? Is it still happening? No one ever seems to post AARs or updates about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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