CMSFII: Battle in the Balkans

[Erwin]

"but they won't risk all out warfare for three marginal states..."

Well, would we? We didn't for Poland in WW2 either. These places are too far away re logistics and only a hundred miles or so across. Russia could literally walk to the Baltic in a few days.

Would Russia risk war with the US if we created a revolution in a Central or South American state to install a friendly government? Oh, wait, we already did that.

There is the real issue of the massive Russian population that has settled in the Baltics. A political situation could arise where a large % of the pop of these tiny countries appeal to Russia for help etc.

I am not saying this is likely, but certainly my relatives have a real fear of this.

[Lethaface]

Well NATO is more then some childsplay last time I checked.

[Erwin]

If the western powers can't control being overrun by Islamic immigrants and getting Sharia law in their systems, I doubt they'll have the moral strength to go to war over tiny countries like Estonia, Latvia etc.

The NATO forces cannot logistically support themselves that far away. It's bankrupting us fighting stone-age hill-billies in Afghanistan. Going up against Russia???

[Lethaface]

Well, the whole 'being overrun by Islamic immigrants' and 'Shariah law' is such utter crap that I'm truly scared by the fact that so many people believe it. It is even discriminative of many persons (basically you are saying TMI - too much Islamists - while in another thread someone else called out racism against someone who posted something similar, but without clarifying his ideas). For that matter you should say that US has already been overrun and overtaken by Jewish immigrants, since there are a lot of them and the 'Jewish' lobby is factually quite powerful in the US.

Anyway IT, my friend, is plain old hardcore PROPAGANDA.

And for that matter, religious groups already have the possibility to have their own courts to settle their own disputes, if (AND ONLY IF) all parties agree. In the US there are Jewish courts. In England there are and in the Netherlands there are Jewish courts as well (perfectly fine by me, why not? I don't have to use m).

Now if some muslims want to settle the consequences of their divorce according to Sharia law, who opposes this? And then something like 'double standards' come into my mind.

No, first of all it is dumb to say 'Islamic immigrants' since the reason they immigrate here has nothing to do with their religion. It is not a holy war into the our 'free' and 'humanistic' cultures. We looked for cheap labor some time ago (because no one wanted to do factory work here), and people in Morocco and Turkey were willing to chime in. Those weren't the best educated people around there, that's the whole reason they emigrated. It is not that the Elite or Religious Elite of Morocco came here to work in factories only to produce a lot of siblings that can then take over our country and bring Islam upon us. That's as sick as thinking that Bush and co are lizard humans.

Now, back to The Netherlands (similar to the rest of Europe), some decades and a lot of fubar's later, we have realized that without effort and because of our individual culture, the immigrants aren't integrating like we would like to see. This can be solved, but this takes time and it is imperative that this problem is not laid down only with the immigrants. The locals are a part of the problem too (perception is the clue here).

And for that matter, I think it is not uncommon for immigrated minorities to have problems like criminality, lower welfare, lack of language skills, etc around the world? I think almost ALL minorities in the world have these problems.

Now, the majority of our immigrants happen to be Muslims. Some, like Geert Wilders, put a lot of effort into propaganda making everyone believe that all Muslims in our countries are similar like the most hardcore Muslim fundamentalists in the world. If the reason truly is they are scared of a Dutch Caliphate, they are ripe for the Mental Hospital.

However, I think there are other reasons for this blaming all our problems at this sole group. This forum is not the right place for discussing that subject (Politics).

However, when I see nonsense I have to call it. It is not meant as an insult, it is just my opinion. It is however a well informed opinion, especially in this case, so I hope you would give your mind some time to think for itself instead of following the threaded paths and blindly believing the smelly item called '*** news' that you face everyday.

[Sequoia]

If the western powers can't control being overrun by Islamic immigrants and getting Sharia law in their systems, I doubt they'll have the moral strength to go to war over tiny countries like Estonia, Latvia etc.

The NATO forces cannot logistically support themselves that far away. It's bankrupting us fighting stone-age hill-billies in Afghanistan. Going up against Russia???

Then how will we ever get a realistic CMSF II game?!

[Lethaface]

And on topic,

The recent credit crisis (or should I say bankjob) has it's toll as well, but still I would dare to say that the combined West plus allies (NATO) can take on Russia logistic wise. As long as we're not the ones invading Russia, that is.

Russia has fell behind after the Cold War was over. Recently they are coming back, but not on par with the power of the CCCP at it's high time.

Perhaps Russia has a lot of resources, it is in my opinion not on par with NATO economically, logistically or military-wise.

[Secondbrooks]

"but they won't risk all out warfare for three marginal states..."

Well, would we? We didn't for Poland in WW2 either. These places are too far away re logistics and only a hundred miles or so across. Russia could literally walk to the Baltic in a few days.

Would Russia risk war with the US if we created a revolution in a Central or South American state to install a friendly government? Oh, wait, we already did that.

There is the real issue of the massive Russian population that has settled in the Baltics. A political situation could arise where a large % of the pop of these tiny countries appeal to Russia for help etc.

I am not saying this is likely, but certainly my relatives have a real fear of this.

And some analysis which i've read seems to hint that in 10-20 years Europe doesn't have much more than "armies" capable only in anti-terrorist peace enforcing stuff with little conventional warfighting capacity, pretty much all European NATO-countries belongs to this list... Russia then again will keep and develop it's conventional capacity. most definedly not reaching level of good old Soviet days, but then again it doesn't have to as level of it's adversary in-this-scenario has dropped significantly.

Today there's one country with 5 million people which has one of largest armies in Europe if measured in manpower or artillery, 10-20 years back it still was pretty small army in European scale. Yeah, it's not nearly best method of calculation warfighting capacity, but idea is to show that there has been some pretty drastic changes during last decade... And which probably doesn't end there.

[ASL Veteran]

Now, back to The Netherlands (similar to the rest of Europe), some decades and a lot of fubar's later, we have realized that without effort and because of our individual culture, the immigrants aren't integrating like we would like to see. This can be solved, but this takes time and it is imperative that this problem is not laid down only with the immigrants. The locals are a part of the problem too (perception is the clue here).

And for that matter, I think it is not uncommon for immigrated minorities to have problems like criminality, lower welfare, lack of language skills, etc around the world? I think almost ALL minorities in the world have these problems.

Now, the majority of our immigrants happen to be Muslims. Some, like Geert Wilders, put a lot of effort into propaganda making everyone believe that all Muslims in our countries are similar like the most hardcore Muslim fundamentalists in the world. If the reason truly is they are scared of a Dutch Caliphate, they are ripe for the Mental Hospital.

However, I think there are other reasons for this blaming all our problems at this sole group. This forum is not the right place for discussing that subject (Politics).

However, when I see nonsense I have to call it. It is not meant as an insult, it is just my opinion. It is however a well informed opinion, especially in this case, so I hope you would give your mind some time to think for itself instead of following the threaded paths and blindly believing the smelly item called '*** news' that you face everyday.

I don't want to get into a big debate over immigration, but there is a definite purpose to the immigration issue. Immigration is a 'problem' by design not by accident. It's not just that it's immigration, but it's the way the immigration is taking place. You have to think 'outside of the box' in order to see it though. No, I don't blame the immigrants either.

What happens if you have a large population of "immigrants" who the political classes of your nation are allowing to set up shop in your country without asking them to integrate into your nation culturally? First it erodes your nation from a cultural perspective which serves to diminish and destroy your national identity. Second, you have a large population of people living in your nation who do not share your cultural identity and who have very little allegiance or connection to the nation that they are now living in. Therefore, if these persons also become wards of the state and they have managed to destroy your national identity to a large extent, when it comes time for the IMF or the EU to bail out your nation because it can't pay it's bills, these people would be happy to demonstrate and protest in the streets in favor of totally erasing your national identity and merging your nation into an EU super state.

If your nation can't pay it's bills, then the nation just needs to get bigger by merging into the EU and eliminating your national identity so the government gravy train can keep on coming. There are powerful people in European government positions who want that to happen. They dream of the day where there is no more France, Netherlands, or Germany. They dream of the day where it's just the EU super state and every other national identity dissolves. Encouraging large numbers of immigrants who do not integrate culturally and have no allegiance to their host nations can make that happen. These new immigrants will then owe their allegiance to the new super state that was created to attend to their needs. Hard to believe? Wait for it.

[Lethaface]

ASL Veteran, well thats something completely different then the Jihadi invasion of the 5th colonne and the Dutch Caliphate under Sharia.

Although I'm not sure I would like a EU superstate, it might be a strategic necessity to survive beyond 2050 as a well faring country. First they need to make the EU a less undemocratic money spilling golem of a bureaucracy that it is now.

Immigrants might indeed help with the EU, but you'd actually be surprised that a lot of the immigrants here are like the locals in thinking. Only not in shape or form, and not the vocal minority.

Have to go, meeting some Vietnamese minority from London in Amsterdam, where we'll meet up with some North African minorities in order to plan our next step in the Caliphate

[Sergei]

Hard to believe? Wait for it.

Sure, you sound like an expert on the topic...

[ASL Veteran]

Sure, you sound like an expert on the topic...

No, not an expert. I'm just aware of what's happening, and if you read HG Well's "The New World Order" and "The Open Conspiracy" then you would be aware of what's happening too. It's not an accident that the students protesting in the UK desecrated various things that are associated with British Nationalism. The statue of Winston Churchill, The monument to British war dead, The Prince of Wales etc. It's by design. Ultimately though your opinion of my lack of intellect is irrelevant because like water wears down a stone, individual European nationalism and sovereignty is wearing down over time. If you fail to see it, then that's your issue not mine.

[Boche]

Ive noticed it aswell, and it scares the living s*** out of me

[Erwin]

For what it's worth, I am an immigrant and from immigrant/displaced parents. I know first hand the struggles when you arrive with nothing.

But, as said earlier, when you have such a large number of people with alien cultural ideas to enter so quickly, it is easier for them to stay in their ghetto-ized communities and not integrate. I see this when I go back to the UK to visit my mother who lives in an area now dominated by Islamic types. Quite normal to see women in the streets wearing full cover, shop signs in languages I don't understand... I ride public transport and it's not pleasant to feel like the foreigner. It's not a London that I recognize from my youth. I am not sure what is the difference between this and invasion. And seen the same thing help bankrupt Southern California now.

Well, anyway... rant over. Not appropriate discussion for here I am sure. Don't mean to offend anyone here.