Am I missing something from Recce?

[sigop22]

It seems that every time I try and do the sneaky Reconnaissance thing all I end up doing is frying my Schimitars and still not seeing nothing. Even if my units are not spotted they sit and stare at the arcs I have given them and they seem to gather absolutely zero information.

For instance, in Cain and Able, there is a in the left side warehouses in a building where I believe an enemy is in. I don't know for sure, so I place my snipers, spotters, and a schimitar to watch the district in small but overlapping archs.

Five minutes go by and I see nothing. Fifteen minutes later and my infantry and sappers come in and move up to the hill on the other side. In a dashing and well coordinated effort I have an APC and Warrior dash to the other side of the hill and down to the wall. Blowing it down with some det charges under smoke my teams move in and sit in the two small building on the other side.

Then, without warning after the smoke clear, a whole squad of Syrians are putting every avaliable AK round into the building. My squads fight back in response, and do an okay job at recovery. But during the entire fire fight, not a single syrian was spotted by my Schimitar, snipers, or spotting all of which have an excellent view of the building. I have to force my Schimitar to start pumping 30's into the windows but even after firing half his load all he's doing is just firing where I told him to with no enemy sighted.

This isn't the first time this happened either. The Full Monty, and a few other missions escape my name where I have my recce AFV's hiding behind a hill hull down only to be spotted and blasted. Another Schimitar a few hundred metres away, looking in the direction from which the round came, still see's nothing. I could have recoiless or ATGM's or dozens of RPG's fired with no idea from which direction they came. Usually I'm spotting the direction and point of origin before my recce guys are even aware of whats going on.

I love the missions designed for the British module. They're all well thought out and I love the inclusion of the reconnaissance element into a lot of the scenerios. But it seems all I end up doing is watching a schimitar behind a berm get zapped or destroyed without a single enemy seen, hull down or not.

So is there something I'm specifically not seeing? I know reconnaissance in real life is a very difficult job, but it seems that no matter what way I approach a target or how sneaky I get with my group in boots or on tracks, they're dead with no information gathered.

Also, is it better to have these Schimitars or warriors opened up or closed? The gunners IR and LSR should be good for spotting while the crew commander has his binos, but especially long distance ranges would it be better for him to be closed? I know back in the BB or CMAK days the opened crew had a better chance of spotting (with a higher chance of losing their hats from sniper fire), but with all the modern technology it doesn't seem to matter whose up or down but whose in the defensive.

[sigop22]

Sorry for double post

[Pvt. Ryan]

In my experience, Scimitars are nothing but cannon fodder. I would try unbuttoning to improve spotting.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Dismount the crew to sneak about and recon. Basically what happens irl, anyway.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

In this game, recce units really don't have much of an edge if any over regular units. The scenarios are typically focussed on combat, so there is only a marginal role for the true art of reconnaissance. At a scenario's start you roughly know where the enemy is and that you've got a fight on your hands. Not much more for recce vehicles to do once you get to that stage of imminent battle. They did their job prior to the scenario starting.

Thus recce units are demoted to just another flavour of combat unit to use in battle. As it happens, pretty frail units.

[GSX]

If I have say 4 Scimitars on recce, then I tend to keep them loosely together (about a 50-100 Yard circle). It often means that when one is inevitably sacrificaed, the other three get a chance to spot who did it.

Generally though I use them as mobile guns to support the infantry as they move about, fire into buildings, deal with hard to get units etc.

I see Scimitars like Shermans, never use one when you have more than 1 around.

[sigop22]

That sucks. I was really hoping they'd play a more diverse or important role. From what I remember overseas even during an op or when guys make first contact the recce is usually still around and observing for possible enemy movement. They just seem to take up battlespae and points now. For missions like Cain and Able with such a big distance, or even the second campaign mission I love to have them move ahead of the main element while they regroup and rebomb to check things out.

[hcrof]

Repost from another thread. This is what I do with scimitars:

Recon

- Scimitars have a small turret with a lot of sensors high up on them so try going hull down at long range from the enemy.

-Their low height means they can use a lot more folds in the ground than MBT's, use tiny elevation changes to shield you as you scoot around to somewhere unexpected.

- If all else fails, bail the crew out of one scimitar and use them to peek over a ridge. Keep another Scimitar around for security and you are working within British Army doctrine AFAIK.

Combat

- Stay hull down and you can spot BMP's before they spot you. Knock them out with 1-2 hits of 30mm at any range.

- Use smoke/terrain and speed to scoot around the flanks. Even if you don't manage to do any damage, it will force your opponent to devide his attention. They are more expendable than a Challenger so you can take more risks.

- Use them to pin down or mop up infantry to free up heavier assets elsewhere. As long as they are out of RPG range (300-400m) they will be fine.

Essentially they are small, fast and well armed. They can't take an ATGM hit but only MBT's really can. If they get engaged by RPG's or MG fire you have done something very wrong. (i.e got too close to the enemy). True recon would be very boring in this game. Would you want to sit in an OP for 4 hours without seeing anything more than a question mark?

[Combatintman]

There is of course cavalry panache - if someone can knock up a white tablecloth and mess silver mod it will improve performance beyond belief.

[Kat Johnston]

I've been using the dismount-the-crew and have them scout ahead tactic with Scimitars - you can use the Scimitar as a light, fast taxi, zoom up behind a building or hill, and have the crew Hunt their way upstairs or up to the crest - it's quite effective.

Beyond that I just tend to have them sat in one place suppressing buildings at long range with their cannons and/or MGs.

[MikeyD]

CMSF is a 'tip-of-the-spear' sim, so Scimitar's (and M707's, and Jackal's) official role is often pretty much done within the first five minutes of scenario start. You've got to imagine the preceeding twelve hours. The movement of forces, screening of flanks, route security to the rear, peering over the next ridge ahead. Scimitar crews are working their tails off. Then comes scenario time - boom, we make contact with the enemy. Thank you very much Scimitar for all your (pre-scenario) help, we'll take it from here.

[sigop22]

True recon would be very boring in this game. Would you want to sit in an OP for 4 hours without seeing anything more than a question mark?

Oh, I know true recon would be a boring game. I'm just thinking that my schimitar on the hill overlooking the battlespace should be able to provide more than wasted points. If it could give me an idea of whats going on in different spots it would be helpful. While its cannon is good for spot shots and driving off, I just thought that something with sophisticated obs equipment could do more than idle.