Posting of AARs

[JohnO]

Why isn't there any AARs being posted?

Is it from being lazy which I'm guilty,

Is it that plays don't want other players too know how bad they are in tactics,

Is it that players don't know how to do an AAR,

Is it that players don't know where to post AARs,

[hcrof]

Well I think the battles for CMSF are a lot longer than in CMx1. A 2 hour AAR is a huge job!

I might be wrong though, I didn't play a lot of scenarios in CMBB and QB's were allways around 30 mins IIRC

[TheVulture]

There are a few around. I know I've done AARs for two PBEMs (offsite, but linked here. But given that the forum where I posted them is dying, maybe I ought to re-spam them here...). I suspect places like band of brothers would have a fair number of AARs, but cant say I've gone to look.

[[hirr]Leto]

Band of Brothers (a club I belong to) does not really play a lot of CMSF. They still play on the whole CMAK, CMBB and CMBO and all the AARs and DARs there are CMx1 based. All other CM clubs that I know of outside of World at War, do not play CMSF. World at War has a few guys that try to put together tournaments, but due to the nature of the CMSF game, it is not congruent to competitive PBEM tourney play, so there are not a lot of people that play the game this way.

I wrote DARs for a very long time and find that the work that goes into it, usually is not appreciated by the lurkers, who for some reason, do not even attempt to get involved in the DAR, throw in an atta boy! or even leave a thanks for writing them. I was going to begin writing DARs in CMSF to explain the nuances of CMSF in comparison and contrast to CMx1, but due to the great apathy, and my utter lack of talent for writing witty, urban and educational DARs, I have given up on that quest for fire.

I am back playing CMAK again and have not played CMSF for awhile now... maybe I am lazy with the learning curve of CMSF, or maybe I just cannot get into the game yet... dunno.

I think the whole collective wargaming community is now waiting for CM Normandy... and in the meantime, is back playing CMx1 (and I am sure there is a whole other community out there playing and loving CMSF... so CMSF luvahs please do not rip out my heart and eat it please).

Cheers!

Leto

[Chainsaw]

whats DAR?

I wrote one AAR, the thing that keeps me from doing it again is lazyness, it was hard extrawork to sit every minute and write down what you did and where and then compile it with screenshots.

[Lethaface]

general laziness for writings things im not paid for, apart from posting a forumm message

Hence, I never wrote any but sure can appreciate someone else's.

Cheers for making them!

[TheVulture]

whats DAR?

During Action Report. Not, I suspect, a real military acronym.

Not always a meaningful distinction, but broadly, an AAR is written once the game is complete (often with more of an overview point of view), while a DAR is written in an ongoing way, with your views on the situation and plans every turn (or few turns), traditionally followed on the next turn by a revelation of why your plan went balls-up so badly.

[JohnO]

Well as the starter of this thread,

• Is it from being lazy which I'm guilty,

• Is it that players don't want other players too know how bad they are in tactics,

• Is it that players don't know how to do an AAR,

• Is it that players don't know where to post AARs,

I'm guilty on all above,

but never did it accord to me that because the length of the scenario could also be a reason for not writing an AAR, it never cross my mind.

I like that term "During Action Report" (DAR) might give it a shot.

[MeatEtr]

Leto;1152814']...but due to the nature of the CMSF game, it is not congruent to competitive PBEM tourney play, so there are not a lot of people that play the game this way.

Cheers!

Leto

Hey Leto, slightly off topic, but could you please elaborate on this? I'm curious since I played somewhat competitively for the Blitz ladder, WaW, and some tourneys for CMx1. I know very little about the CMSF editor, lazy would be a good word here.

I was a CMx1 holdout until 1.11 came out, and then especially now with 1.20. I never thought I would say this, but my CMx1(especially CMBB) is fading away. I even bought the mod bundle(Marines+Brits) and loving it.

P.S. Whatever happen to that Masters Tourney MR was running? If memory serves, you were in it too. Last I heard he put a halt to it due to personal reasons.

Edit: Whoa, nevermind, just went over to the site and saw the tourney is already underway. Email sent to Stoffel, hopefully it's not too late to get back in.

[MikeyD]

I would like to hear anything, personally. It doesn't have to be move-by-move, squad-by-squad. There's a couple scenarios in particular that I'd like to hear someone else's clever solution to. Oh, you use a smoke screen! Oh, you knock down that building with airpower! People keep claiming 2 KIA and a routed enemy on battles that I barely scrape through. I'd like to read how they did it!

[DaveDash]

I would like to hear anything, personally. It doesn't have to be move-by-move, squad-by-squad. There's a couple scenarios in particular that I'd like to hear someone else's clever solution to. Oh, you use a smoke screen! Oh, you knock down that building with airpower! People keep claiming 2 KIA and a routed enemy on battles that I barely scrape through. I'd like to read how they did it!

Reloading.

For me, it's probably a combination of laziness and the fact that no one else seems to be doing it. I might get the ball rolling at some point, but putting together an AAR can take more time than the scenario!

The positive side is though doing AAR's means I might use better thought out tactics.

[JohnO]

How about AAR/DAR on scenarios that has or is being played by PBEM or solo. Would like to see how the Pattons or Guderians use Tactics.

[snake_eye]

I agree with mickeyD for the AAR. I have had some written for scenarios I have made and they were pretty well described. I won't give name, since all deserve appreciative words. They don't have to go in details, but the casualties table (for both sides) and the overall way to get to the objectives and how, should be sufficient.

However, it is some kind of homework to do it and the lazy side is sometimes hard to overcome, since it seems that the effort done doesn't touch a broad audience. That's too bad, because they are a fantastic source of information for a scenario builder.

Please don't get too lazy and try to write some AAR.

Cheers

GKE Snake Eye

[Cybertrand]

I would like to hear anything, personally. It doesn't have to be move-by-move, squad-by-squad. There's a couple scenarios in particular that I'd like to hear someone else's clever solution to. Oh, you use a smoke screen! Oh, you knock down that building with airpower! People keep claiming 2 KIA and a routed enemy on battles that I barely scrape through. I'd like to read how they did it!

Well, there's a new one for CMSF on Tacticularcancer : http://www.tacticularcancer.com/content.php?id=59 and i've made several if you want to see, check this way http://combatmission.cyberstratege.com/category/aar/ you'll find various links (it's all in french but you can autotranslate it with Google for instance and there's a lot of screenshots and even videos). I still have to finish some others, but it takes time ...

[snake_eye]

Well, there's a new one for CMSF on Tacticularcancer : http://www.tacticularcancer.com/content.php?id=59 and i've made several if you want to see, check this way http://combatmission.cyberstratege.com/category/aar/ you'll find various links (it's all in french but you can autotranslate it with Google for instance and there's a lot of screenshots and even videos). I still have to finish some others, but it takes time ...

Well, Bertrand, "Merci beaucoup" for the links;

I have seen and read some of your excellent AAR on CYBERSTRATEGE which I browse quite often. The only problem I have found is about the French troops and tacticals terminologies for the infantry and the Armor. I am more use to the US ones than the French ones. That explain partly, why I have never translated a scenario in French, when it had been asked to me.

Cheers

[gibsonm]

JohnO,

I suspect its because we are working on other stuff usually.

I did do a comic Armour Attacks but now its getting harder as the game keeps evolving before you can finish it (so the first part is under ver 1.0, then later sections 1.2, etc. with the result that sometimes things that couldn’t be done initially are subsequently possible but then you have to decide to go back and “replay” the earlier section so its consistent or just keep going (and hope no one asks “how come they did do that in Chapter 2?”).

Also as a Beta tester imagine what would happen if I published a comic that used a Beta build and showed something that I shouldn’t have shown (or perhaps even something [say a vehicle] that was subsequently dropped).

The ones I’d done previously in CMAK were fine because CMAK itself didn’t change as I was writing the comic.

And then the question of format:

Comic (lots of screenshots and try to piece it together through numerous WEGO replays). Each Chapter of “Armour Attacks” took about 4 hrs to “write” (not bad for a 1 or 2 min turn per Chapter).

Fraps Video (lots of space needed. Need a good commentary (soundtrack - licencing?). Need to review multiple times to make sure you don’t miss something vital. Where do you post it. Format (avi Vs Quicktime, etc.)?

[snake_eye]

Actually, I think that showing either with FRAPS (and or similar) or Comics an AAR is in itself a huge work. More, if you are playing R.T, you really have to anticipate for what you want to be saved. That is quite impossible to apprehend. In Wego, you can play it back. But that means that you should nearly write the AAR right then.

For myself, I prefer an overall AAR (let's say at company and platoon levels) written and indicating the tactical plan being applied and its result. If, we go into details, the writting becomes a nightmare and no wonder that just a few people have the tenacity to do it till the end.

Anyway, to all doing so, thank you, for the pleasure you give us,. More, it is them that make you play a game, that you had set aside most of the time.

Cheers

[gibsonm]

Well while you’re waiting, you’re welcome to read the first 10 Chapters of “Armour Attacks” here:

Armour Attacks and other AAR’s

I should really go back and dig up that last saved file and keep it going ...

[GLynn41]

I usually do not feel I can offer anything- it took me 4 tries to beat along the Euphrates-- but I finally did--maybe it was 5 anyway __I am grateful for the scen makers--- and good or bad will post some thing

[Lethaface]

Hehehe, I dont have the problem of hosting it, or too few screenshots (i always produce loads of em), but rather that during the process of even starting up anything like an AAR my attention diverges from the game due to various reasons and I cant be really bothered to invest that big bunch of my already scarce time into creating something. I rather consume things crafted by others (not limited to game instances)

I guess thats called general laziness, but if you have at max 7 (usually way less) hours per weekday in which you have to arrange all your daily things, not much time remains to be busy about something apart from work that has a clear goal (like posting a finished AAR). Weekends are not an option either, since all other daily **** that I can't do during the normal days needs to be done then. Then there are things like girlfriends/wifes/friends/family or even a dog if you happen to have one (not me).

Not that I say that all you AAR writing / MOD building people are jobless gov-money freeloaders, but I have your under serious suspicion!

Well couldn't be more happy about it free labour is a big part of this (or any?) game (/community), and their will always be freeloaders upon the hard working man (like me in the case of CMSF)

As long as the creating man enjoys creating, its a win-win situation right?

I do intend to write some AAR's though or even make a scenario, one day. I guess it will be featuring after some 39 more years, if I can enjoy my pension then at l(e)ast.

[JohnO]

This is good, I like the response so far. What I'm asking and I'm just as guilty as the next person for being lazy or not enough time. I'm not asking for nor suggesting for a complete detail AAR.

I may be wrong but to me an AAR should include,

• Who

• What

• When

• Where

• How

• Why

It doesn't have to be by turn or 5 minute turns hell if you can include a map of the AO and some graphics on it to show what you were planing and then show what did happen to me is a good AAR.

Just my two cents.

[GLynn41]

Last stupid question and where should we put the AARs

[JohnO]

Last stupid question and where should we put the AARs

No that is not a stupid question, that is a dam good question. I don't have an answer but maybe if Steve or Moon can jump on here to answer that question. I think that may be an issue if players don't know where to place AARs. I know I would have a problem on where to place them if I don't know where they should go.

[JohnO]

Well while you’re waiting, you’re welcome to read the first 10 Chapters of “Armour Attacks” here:

Armour Attacks and other AAR’s

I should really go back and dig up that last saved file and keep it going ...

Hey Mark, I went ahead an order comic life and will start to make an AAR

[gibsonm]

This is good, I like the response so far. What I'm asking and I'm just as guilty as the next person for being lazy or not enough time. I'm not asking for nor suggesting for a complete detail AAR.

I may be wrong but to me an AAR should include,

• Who

• What

• When

• Where

• How

• Why

It doesn't have to be by turn or 5 minute turns hell if you can include a map of the AO and some graphics on it to show what you were planing and then show what did happen to me is a good AAR.

Just my two cents.

So where’s the worked example.