List of Tanks the US faced in Normandy

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Herr Wittman I presume?

I don't think any of us are going to tell you just yet.

But it's a local favourite.

Though now that Earl Grey mentions it, it's a curious number for a tank to have. For those that aren't aware of the meaning of the numbers, it's actually quite informative.

The first number gives the company, second the platoon, third the vehicle number. Thus in this case it's 8th company, 0 denoting the HQ, the second 8 is the curious one as it tells us it's the 8th vehicle in that HQ, which seems unusually large.

[Flanker15]

Everyone knows tank 808 and his buddies tank 101 and 888.

[Sequoia]

There was also the famous tank A.

[Earl Grey]

The first number gives the company, second the platoon, third the vehicle number. Thus in this case it's 8th company, 0 denoting the HQ, the second 8 is the curious one as it tells us it's the 8th vehicle in that HQ, which seems unusually large.

Technically, it could either be a replacement tank of the Kompaniestab (meager evidence for that) or - more likely - a vehicle of the Aufklärungszug. In that particular case, though, every vehicle in said company would need to have continous numbers - the Stab having 801, 802 and 803 and the Aufklärungszug showing 804, 805, 806, 807 and 808.

There was also the famous tank A.

Well... What do you think of this:

The pattern is halfway accurate, by the way - and there was not only a Panther numbered "AJ9" but also a PzIV. Said PzIV being seen in Normandy, too, if I'm not mistaken.

[Sequoia]

Good find. I was thinking of this Tank by Mad Matt himself:

http://www.combatmission.com/MDMP/mdmp2.asp

[Aacooper]

Ah, Cuirrasier, I mistyped, Panzer Lehr had the Jadgpanther unit 27-29 JULY, which of course was during the US breakthrough. The division fought the US as a whole division from July 2nd to August 5th.

[JonS]

At the end of July the JPanthers were busy trying to fend off BLUECOAT.

[ASL Veteran]

The three Tigers guarding the bank at Claremont have to be accounted for too. That's probably after Mortain though.

[Götz von Berlichingen]

The three Tigers guarding the bank at Claremont have to be accounted for too. That's probably after Mortain though.

Do we get a Don Rickles look-a-like character in that module...?

[Götz von Berlichingen]

There was mention a while back that a few what-if units may make an appearance (Maus).

What about this little baby below - I rendered this one with Vray at home. But the meshing is a little out of whack...!!!

http://www.imagefrog.net/thumb/thumb_8e86b8ed.jpg' alt='thumb_8e86b8ed.jpg'>

[Götz von Berlichingen]

Hoping we can have a few recycled frenchy's such as these to use as pillboxes, or cannon fodder!!!

More 3D models in my collection - which i have yet to texture.

[Sgt Joch]

Panzers Available in Normandy (1st June)

Pz-IV - 680

Panther - 304

Stug - 243

Tiger - 68

H-35 Assault gun - 67

Lorraine Assault gun - 48 (105mm and 75mm AT versions)

Jpz-IV - 40 (should be 60 in total, 20 missing?)

Somuas S-35 - 26

Tiger II - 24

Sdkfz 7/1 - 23

Pz-III - 18

JagdPanther - 12

Flakpanzer 38t - 12

Sdkfz 10/4 - 15

Befehlspanzer III - 6

Renault B-1 - 5

Dan

As much as people like to focus on Tigers, it is important to remember that Panzers IV and V (Panthers) were the mainstay of the Panzer forces in june 1944. I dusted off my copy of "Fields of Fire" on the canadian campaign last night and 12th SS and Panzer Lehr were equipped exclusively with Pz IV and V when they counter-attacked the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division on June 7-10.

I will recheck my copy of Panzertruppen, but I believe that in the Panzer Forces as a whole, the number of Pz IV and V was about even in june 1944.

[Fūrinkazan]

It seems that in june 1944 on the western front, germans had :

39 Pz III

758 Pz IV

655 Panther

102 Tiger I

158 Stug

179 Captured tanks

But they were not all engaged in Normandy

For Tiger II :

The Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 Had 12 tiger II in its 1st company (Porsche turret).

After Goodwood, the third company received 14 Tiger II (12 Porsche, 2 Henschel turret, tiger 300 and 301) but they never saw Normandy, they were destroyed by their own crews or by allied airforces.

This abteilung lost 31 Tiger I and 26 Tiger II

and destroyed 80 allied tanks during the battle of Normandy.

I'm not against Tiger II in the game, but i only can hope that BFC will not forget captured tanks and that they will be better represented that in CMBO, just to respect history. But i'm afraid that we will see more tigers even if they represent a little part of the forces engaged.

[Sgt Joch]

I thought this might be of interest, pulled it out of Panzertruppen, vol.2:

division---------------PzIII----PzIV----PzV----Stugs---------

2nd Panzer-----------------------96------79-----------------

9th Panzer-----------------------78------40-------5----------

11th Panzer-------------26-------89---------------8----------

21st Panzer---------------------112--------------------------

116th Panzer------------13-------86---------------6----------

Panzer Lehr-----------------------98------88-----------------

1st SS Panzer--------------------45-------54-----45--------

2nd SS Panzer--------------------54------78------42--------

12th SS Panzer-------------------98------66----------------

17th SS Panzer-Grenadier--------------------------42------

List of tanks available to Panzer divisions in the West, june 10, 1944. Does not include independent units, like Tiger battalions. It also does not necessarily matchup to their TO&E when they went into combat, since some were still rebuilding.

It does show that Pz IV and Vs were the main type with the Pz IV still the most prevalent type.

How do the captured french types fit in? They are not included in any of the front-line Panzer units.

[SlowMotion]

How do the captured french types fit in? They are not included in any of the front-line Panzer units.

PzAbt 205, 206 and

Pz.Ers.u.Ausb.Abt. 100.

Pz.Abt 213 in Channel islands.

[Sgt Joch]

PzAbt 205, 206 and

Pz.Ers.u.Ausb.Abt. 100.

Pz.Abt 213 in Channel islands.

found this as well:

The German army made extensive use of French captured vehicles and converted ex-French vehicles, though many had been retired by 1944, or had gone to axis allies such as Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Italy or Rumania.

The last units with French tanks were created in November 1943. Pz.Abt.205 was deployed in the North of France and became anti-tank Abteilung in December 1944 (it had before that 10 Somua S35s : 2 in HQ and 4 in the 1st and 2nd companies). Pz.Abt.206 fought against the US forces in June 1944 in the Cotentin Peninsula (it had 10 Somua S35s : 2 in HQ and 4 in the 1st and 2nd companies) and was lost in Cherbourg. Pz.Ersatz Abt.100, created in April 1941 to train the crews on French tanks, went through all the reorganizations but met its fate in Normandy fighting along the 91.ID (it still had one Somua S35 on 19th May 1944).

Photos exist of Somua S35s in use in the following units : SS Gebirgsdivision 'Nord' in Norway 1943 and SS Division Totenkopf (France 1940). Among the units appearing in reports, there is Panzer-Jäger Abt.657 created in 1943 in the Netherlands, equipped with at least 2 Somua S35s.

The Somua went to 21.PzD which was rebuilt in France in July 1943 after its destruction in Tunisia. On 1st June 1944 the division had still 40 Somua S35s mainly in Pz.Rgt.22, 3 of them in Panzer Nachrichten Kompanie 200 (signal company). No more Somua S35s were recorded in the 1st September reports of this division, but it does not mean they were all destroyed in Normandy, as they were probably given to other units as they were considered as unfit for combat at the time.

Pz.Abt.206 was formed in November 1941 at Satory (near Paris), this battalion was used as a reserve unit for the 7.Armee. Wedged in Cherbourg, this unit was destroyed there. Its composition in beginning 1944 included 2 companies of 10 Hotchkiss H39 and 4 Somua S35s (in each company) and one "Stab Kompanie" of 3 Renault B2, 3 Renault B2 flamethrower, 2 Somua S35 and 2 Renault R35. Many such small units were formed with French booty/converted tanks like the Pz.Abt.100 committed to 91.ID in Normandy in 1944 (1 Somua S35, 8 Hotchkiss H39, 14 Renault R35, 1 Flammenwerferpanzer Renault B2, 1 PzIII and 5 FT17c) and the 21. Pz.D. included many French tanks.

Pz.Abt.223 was formed (attached to 22.PzD) with Char B2 flame tanks and was engaged in battles near Sevastopol in 1942. This unit was then expanded to include 2 panzer companies and command elements with a second company composed of 5 B2 and 12 B2 (Fl = flamethrower).

Different other units were also equipped with B2(f) tanks : Pz.Abt.224 in the Netherlands (engaged in Arnhem and Oosterbeek in 1944), two companies of the Pz.Rgt.100 in France and one company of 17 B2 from SS Pz.Abt.7 (SS 'Prinz Eugen' division) in the Balkans. In February 1945, 40 B2(f) tanks were still in service in the German army. Late war B2(f) had sometimes a kind of Zimmerit/concrete on their armor, at least on the turret. The B2(f) Flammpanzer could fire about 200x 2-3 seconds "napalm" shots.

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=6135

although they would be nice to have, I don't think there would be enough interest (other than from grogs), to justify their inclusion in CM:Normandy, given their marginal use in 1944-45.