Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

[Apocalypse 31]

Alright..

I'm a real life Stryker Cavalryman..

I was highly disappointed to find that in game the Stryker RV only comes with a Mk19 on it.

Whats up with that!?!?!

We mount 50cal's on our strykers in real life too. You can check the MTOE, two trucks have 50cal, two have mk19.

Also...the LRAS3 has no function in game? Am I missing something?

Thanks.

[Yardstick]

Lima Oscar Lima.

sorry. couldn't help it...

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Stryker RVs come in both M2 and Mk19 flavors.

The game seems to designate M2s as "Poor" and Mk19s as "Good" equipment. They do this for a number of reasons. In some cases, they actually think that the "poor" equipment is worse than the "good" equipment. In others (as in this one), they aren't actually trying to make much of a value judgment, but simply make these settings to that you can choose what kind of balance you want. The more towards "Poor" you put the settings, the more M2s you'll have, and the more towards "Excellent" you put these settings, the more Mk19s you'll have. I also did a test at "Normal," and I got a mostly 50-50 mix.

[MarkEzra]

Am I missing something?

Maybe

As you get into the game you'll see a very high level of detail. You may also find things that don't match up to your experience. Most of these will be due to the limitation of our PC's to play the game we all want: Just like Life but with out the blood, horror, and consequences of war.

But there is always room for more improvement. So when you see something that gives you the WTF's speak up...it's how the game gets better.

PS: Thanks for your service!

[flamingknives]

Romeo Tango Foxtrot Mike?

[MikeyD]

You may also find things that don't match up to your experience.

That's also sometimes an affect of a game that was built in '07 about a theoretical war in '08 being played in '09. Ya can't blame them for not including widget X in the game when widget X was fielded in October 08.

[Apocal]

Also...the LRAS3 has no function in game? Am I missing something?

Partly. It has a function, it's just under the hood. If you're calling arty down, it decreases the time spent dialing in the mission and you need fewer (if any) corrections. I *think* it also makes it so that aircraft carry laser-guided munitions never fail to spot the target, but I'm having problems setting up a scenario where I can consistently get the conditions right to test that theory.

I might be mixing it up with the FSV though, because in-game I use both vehicles the exact same. I'm pretty sure the 4km by 4km maps we get don't do the LRAS3 justice though. You're better equipped to answer that than I am.

[Apocalypse 31]

Partly. It has a function, it's just under the hood. If you're calling arty down, it decreases the time spent dialing in the mission and you need fewer (if any) corrections. I *think* it also makes it so that aircraft carry laser-guided munitions never fail to spot the target, but I'm having problems setting up a scenario where I can consistently get the conditions right to test that theory.

I might be mixing it up with the FSV though, because in-game I use both vehicles the exact same. I'm pretty sure the 4km by 4km maps we get don't do the LRAS3 justice though. You're better equipped to answer that than I am.

Ok. I can see how it can dial down Call for fire TIMEs, but the LRAS3 has no effect on guided munitions hitting their target. there is no laser beam that can direct guided munitions on the LRAS3.

However, better visibility, better SA and improved target aquisition SHOULD be increased when vehicles outfitted with the LRAS3 are put into the fight.

[Battlefront.com]

Hi Lt Mike! Welcome back.

LRAS3 has the ability to send GPS info into FBCB2 and that, in turn (or does it bypass it?) goes to fixed-wing aircraft with GPS munitions. Remember that these days the stuff they use are dual purpose LGB/GPS guidance systems, so they can be dropped using either as primary. When used as LGB the GPS can be set as a backup in the event that the laser signal is interrupted/lost.

LRAS3 should also spot the buhjeepers out of the enemy. Since it's hooked into FBCB2 this gives the Blue side a huge advantage. To see what I mean, play as Red Some of the stuff that Blue has is taken for granted until you play with Red, which generally relies upon two tin cans with a bit of string to pass messages around the battlefield. And that's the fancy kit that Regimental HQs use

All that being said... IIRC there was some sort of bug in v1.11 and earlier that muted the full value of LRAS3. We fixed that for v1.20 if my memory serves me correctly. v1.20 will come to you guys when British Forces Module is released.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Oh, and generally speaking a platoon of Strykers gets a semi-random allocation of Mk19s and M2s, weighted more towards M2s. However, Equipment "Quality" is the way to really influence the choice. It's not the most obvious feature we've ever put into a game, but it works. Future versions of CMx2 will not have an obtuse way to select equipment variations.

Steve

[Apocalypse 31]

Hi Lt Mike! Welcome back.

LRAS3 has the ability to send GPS info into FBCB2 and that, in turn (or does it bypass it?) goes to fixed-wing aircraft with GPS munitions. Remember that these days the stuff they use are dual purpose LGB/GPS guidance systems, so they can be dropped using either as primary. When used as LGB the GPS can be set as a backup in the event that the laser signal is interrupted/lost.

Yes, LRAS3 IS hooked up to the FBCB2. That information CAN be sent to aircraft in the form of a Call For Fire request, HOWEVER, I'm not aware of that info getting to LGB munitions any faster than a pilot entering it manually.

I think the game capabilities of the LRAS are slightly off target.

The LRAS3 isnt a system designed for making call for fire any easier than manually calling it in it. Yes, the LRAS is hooked up to the FBCB2 and it will grab a grid for you, but thats about it. It doesnt hold a laze and cannot direct any munitions on to target. We do have other systems in the military that can do that. Not the LRAS3

WHAT THE LRAS DOES DO is aquire targets much easier and effectively than any other optic or aquisition system out there. I have personally lased targets up to 24km in distance. Its pretty awesome.

As far as how this relates to the video game, I would suggest altering the LRAS capabilities in game. It can spot enemies quickly, and call for fire is much more accurate with it (since it can laze a target and grab a grid)

Does that make sense?

As far as the M2 vs Mk19 thing.

I was referencing the map/scenario editor. I tried to give player 1 the option to purchase a stryker recon platoon, but the only thing available were RV's with mk19's.

EDIT: While we're talking about call for fire. In game I noticed there are FSO's in game (Fire support officers) BRAVO to battlefront for including these guys. FSO's really bring the fight to the enemy via several assets (mortars, arty, air, etc).

I'm not sure if it is programmed in game, but any time an FSO calls for fire, the result should be a very effective and ACCURATE fire mission.

While playing I didnt notice any difference than an average rifle squad vs FSO when it came to calling for fire.

[Clavicula_Nox]

The difference between riflemen and FSOs is the time it takes between the mission being ordered, and rounds hitting the target.

[Peter Panzer]

...IIRC there was some sort of bug in v1.11 and earlier that muted the full value of LRAS3. We fixed that for v1.20...

Steve:

That's great news. It's nice to hear the recon assets are getting some attention.

Speaking of the LRAS3, will we finally have access to in-game LOS and Target Arc functions for the M707 (Recon Humvee) in v1.2? Given that their equally unarmed REDFOR counterparts (UNCON spies) have them the omission seems rather odd, not to mention limiting in terms of the '707's effective use. Even stranger, you can use the LOS function for the M707 in the setup phase but not when the engagement begins.

LT Mike isn't the only one around these parts that enjoys a solid recon mission. Can you help us out?

[akd]

As far as the M2 vs Mk19 thing.

I was referencing the map/scenario editor. I tried to give player 1 the option to purchase a stryker recon platoon, but the only thing available were RV's with mk19's.

Equipment type is decided on the left side, i.e. before purchase. Changes to "equipment" before purchasing the unit will effect the types distributed amongst the actual units. Depending on the unit, this may be an absolute change or a random distribution. For example,

1. A Republican Guard Tank Company with "Normal" equipment selected will always be entirely composed of T-72M1V(2001)s. With "Excellent" it will always be entirely T-90s.

2. A Stryker Cavalry Troop with "Normal" selected will favor a random distribution of M2s and Mk19s throughout the RVs of the troop, but will not necessarily be either 1 for 1 or equally distributed amongst the subordinate units. I just did so in the editor and got this:

HQ - 3 x M2

1st Platoon - 4 x M2

2nd Platoon - 1 x Mk19, 3 x M2

3rd Platoon - 2 x Mk 19, 2 x M2

"Excellent" should give all or almost all Mk. 19s, while "Poor" favors mostly M2s (sometimes a Mk19 shows up). I noticed that the HQ vehicles always get M2s regardless, so that may be a bug with the Cav Troop TO&E.

This of course creates a big problem where you can only chose equipment at the highest unit level (in this case troop, but sometimes battalion), not at the subordinate unit or individual vehicle level, so the only way to assure one platoon with all Mk19s and one with all M2s would be to purchase two troops and delete the other two platoons from each (which could create command and control problems).

After a unit has been purchased, changes to "Equipment" affect quality (i.e. accuracy and reliability) rather than type. These changes can be made to each individual vehicle if you wish, but the type of equipment will not change.

The way this works really sucks, and supposedly will be changed in future CM titles, but unfortunately not in CMSF I or its modules (as I understand).

[Battlefront.com]

Lt. Mike,

Yes, LRAS3 IS hooked up to the FBCB2. That information CAN be sent to aircraft in the form of a Call For Fire request, HOWEVER, I'm not aware of that info getting to LGB munitions any faster than a pilot entering it manually.

Remember that the time to delivery involves a multitude of factors, of which the speed of transmission of vital data between spotter and the next link in the chain is one of the more important variables. When you compare this to someone with a set of binoculars and, perhaps, a laser range finder... LRAS3 is quicker because it gets reliable data nearly instantly. The guy with less stuff on him has to manually do a bunch of things to get the data, then manually put it into FBCB2 or reading it manually after establishing radio contact. LRAS3 also makes double checking a snap compared to other methods, and since you guys are supposed to be careful... you're supposed to be doing double checking

The upshot of it is LRAS3 smooths out a couple of different procedures before the pilot does his thing. The real world benefit of that should be shaving seconds, if not minutes, off of the elapsed time to release and, once released, offering the munitions a greater degree of accuracy.

Does that sound correct when put that way?

The LRAS3 isnt a system designed for making call for fire any easier than manually calling it in it. Yes, the LRAS is hooked up to the FBCB2 and it will grab a grid for you, but thats about it. It doesnt hold a laze and cannot direct any munitions on to target. We do have other systems in the military that can do that. Not the LRAS3

Correct, however as I said GPS guidance is used when there is no laze to follow. LRAS3 can produce useable GPS coordinates, near instantly, while other methods either can't or can with a greater degree of error. As I understand it a soldier using a hand held laser range finder can get distance and bearing, which he then puts into FBCB2 which, in turn, produces GPS coordinates. LRAS3 is simply point at the target and bingo... done and already in FBCB2. Correct?

WHAT THE LRAS DOES DO is aquire targets much easier and effectively than any other optic or aquisition system out there. I have personally lased targets up to 24km in distance. Its pretty awesome.

Should be for how much those things cost us taxpayers

As I said, this is one of the areas where I THINK in v1.11 it isn't performing as well as it should under adverse conditions (night/smoke). Therefore, in v1.20 you should notice a difference in terms of spotting.

As far as how this relates to the video game, I would suggest altering the LRAS capabilities in game. It can spot enemies quickly, and call for fire is much more accurate with it (since it can laze a target and grab a grid)

Does that make sense?

I think this is what we have, excepting what I believe is a pending v1.20 fix.

As far as the M2 vs Mk19 thing.

I was referencing the map/scenario editor. I tried to give player 1 the option to purchase a stryker recon platoon, but the only thing available were RV's with mk19's.

AKD has a good post just above which hopefully will help you out. And yes, we agree with him that the current methodology sucks Unfortunately by the time we discovered how inadequate the system was we really didn't have the opportunity to change it. And we still haven't, because the change is rather major *and* is now tied to the redesigned Quick Battle system (which we haven't coded yet).

EDIT: While we're talking about call for fire. In game I noticed there are FSO's in game (Fire support officers) BRAVO to battlefront for including these guys. FSO's really bring the fight to the enemy via several assets (mortars, arty, air, etc).

We tried to mimic the specialists as best we could. Sometimes the specialists don't have much impact on the game or could be simulated "off map", but FSOs, JTACs, etc. are definitely things which need to be simulated explicitly in the game in a real way.

I'm not sure if it is programmed in game, but any time an FSO calls for fire, the result should be a very effective and ACCURATE fire mission.

Yup! Same with the Fire Support NCOs that you'll see running around the game as well.

While playing I didnt notice any difference than an average rifle squad vs FSO when it came to calling for fire.

Depending on circumstances, the differences can be huge. Remember that FDC corrects for a lot of the shortcomings of 1st Squad's Sgt. Joebob calling in fire. However, this takes time and it's time that the FSO doesn't require because he speaks the same "language" as the FDC. But there are some things which the FDC can't correct for because, well, they can only do so much. This is where accuracy comes into play since the FSO is less likely to make mistakes and more likely to be able to provide information the FDC needs to get better first round hits. It also has to do with what equipment is available to whomever is making the call, and to a lesser extent how rattled they are when making it.

Steve

[Apocalypse 31]

Sounds good.

As always, Steve delievers.