The K Man Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Seamonkey, Sorry to hear about the loss of your Dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Carverrt, Thanks Carverrt I appreciate it. I'll definitely take you up on your offer. Just to let everybody know I take all the help I can get. You'll also make it a lot easier on Happycat who got a big assignment (entire Asian theater). When you get the info on Chinese theater of war feel free to send it over to scottmmoore@verizon.net. Thanks once again. Bill101, I'm most likely going to get stuck with AI scripting, as I will have to create AI scripts to make the battle of Midway a definite battle for both sides. Other than that it sounds like you could definitely help out with any research of units that we might need. I appreciate this contribution too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverrt Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Third Changsha Campaign (Dec. 1941- Jan.1942) had just ended. 170,000 Japanese Japanese failed to defeat 260,000 Chinese for the third time. While the Allies were reeling in the Pacific and South Asia, this was their one major victory. In progress were two Campaigns: one in central China and the other in Burma. In the First Burma Campaign (Mar to Jun 1942) 20,000 Chinese helped the British defend Northern Burma. However, the invasion from Southern Burma resulted in the Japanese occupying Northern Burma and cutting off the Burma Road. And, the Chekiang (Zhejiang) - Kiangsi (Jiangxi ) Campaign (May to Sep1942) was in reaction to Doolittle’s raid, 180,000 Japanese attacked along the Chekiang-Kiangsi Railroad defended by some 300,000 Chinese to remove safe havens for American air crews. The Japanese destroyed several major airfields in the area. I’ll put together unit lists and try to give you an estimate on positions as they relate to the PT map. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Thanks Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverrt Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Bill, To help with the June 1942 map, when did Foochow fall to the Japanese, I can’t seem to find a reference? I only find a reference to its liberation on 26 May 1945. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverrt Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Results of the third Changsha Campaign... -The Chinese, about 300,000 under General Hsueh, 9th War Area (Army Groups 19, 27, 30), comprising of some 37 Divisions. -The Japanese, about 120,000 under General Anami, 11th Corps, comprising of 4 Division, 3 Brigades, the 1st Air Group and Heavy Artillery. -The Japanese attack made it close to Changsha, but the Chinese pushed them back to their starting positions around Wuhan by 15 January 1942. The author of The History of the Sino-Japanese war (1937-1945), Hsu Long-hsuen et. al., claimed the Japanese took 50,000 casualties. In my opinion the book is slanted toward the Kuomintang /Nationalists. Although I do believe the OOB’s and general facts are correct, the political tone of the book does cause me some hesitation when I cite this source. But, safe to say the Japanese took a beating, and that only some of the Divisions that were engaged at Changsha participated in Chekiang-Kiangsi. -So, for the June 1942 map; I’d have to say the Chinese near Changsha and Japanese units around Wuhan are in the same positions as in the Operation Z scenario, except that they may be a bit under strength. The on going Chekiang-Kiangsi Campaign... -The Chinese, about 300,000 under General Ku, 3rd War Area (Army Groups 25,10, 2, 32), comprising of some 35 Divisions. -The Japanese, about 180,000 comprising of units of the 11th Corps (General Anami) & 13th Corps (General Sawada) (7 Divs & 5 Bdes) with Tanks and Heavy Artillery. - The Japanese attacked west along the Chekiang-Kiangsi railroad successfully pushing the Chinese back toward Nanchang by the 8 June 1942. - So, for the June 1942 map; the Chinese have depleted Armies in 48,30; 48,31 and 46,32 and the Japanese have depleted Armies in 49,29 and 49,30. Tiles between 49,32 and 49,32 and all tiles east (except Foochow) are in Japanese control. The on going First Burma Campaign... -The Japanese 15th Corps (General Ida) comprising of 4 Divs, 2 Tk Rgts, 4 Atry Rgts, Engineers and motorized. - The Chinese 1st Route Expeditionary Force (General Lo) comprising of 9 Divisions. - The Japanese attack north succeeded in capturing Lashio and Yenangyaung, but fell short of Mandalay; however when Myitkyina was captured in May 1942 British and Chinese positions in Mandalay were threatened. - So, for the June 1942 map; The Japanese control Lashio, Yenangyaung, Myitkyina and Mandalay (29,33; 25,35, 26,32; 26,35) and all tiles south to include Rangoon, as well as 29,31; 28,31 and 28,32 in China. Japanese Armies are in Yenangyaung & Lashio, and a Tank unit is in Mandalay with an Artillery unit close by. The Chinese still control Wanting with one Army, and the British control areas west of the Irrawady River (if you do not have resources to estimate the British OOB here let me know). Note: Thailand had switched sides, declared war on the Allies, invaded Burma and annexed parts of Burma. Let me know if you need more, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Bill, To help with the June 1942 map, when did Foochow fall to the Japanese, I can’t seem to find a reference? I only find a reference to its liberation on 26 May 1945. Robert Hi Robert Here's the info I found in the Times newspaper on Foochow: Japan took Foochow in April 1941 but on the 3rd September 1941 the Chinese announced that they had taken it back (see The Times, Thursday, Sep 04, 1941; pg. 3; Issue 49022; col C). An article from July 1942 clearly shows that it was still in Chinese hands in 1942. The article was called The Threat to China and said that 'Wenchow and Foochow are the only seaports still in Chinese hands' (The Times, Tuesday, Jul 14, 1942; pg. 5; Issue 49287; col C). It was then captured by Japan for the second time in October 1944, and liberated in May 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Don't want to derail this thread, but I wanted to thank everyone for their considerations and one other thing. Through this event, as trying as it was, for it started months ago as supposedly a minor remedial surgery, there was solace for me in escape, in those times my Dad rested peacefully. That distraction was SC and this forum. It allowed that trangression from reality that we all need from time to time, and it was there for me and I want you all to remember I appreciated each and everyone of you for that escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 SeaMonkey, Glad to hear that I could play a small part in creating an escape for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Robert, I would just like to let you know I'm beginning to process and implement the info that you have given me into the MOD. Unfortunately I don't have resources to estimate the British OOB in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Bill, Do you have any resources relating to the Japanese and Americans units in the Aleutians? As I can't seem to find anything accurate enough to implement into my MOD. It would definitely be a real help if you had something good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 The only references I found so far names the "Aduk-Attu" and "Kiska Occupation Forces". Another source quotes a 1200 troop, "Army Landing Force" for Attu. On Attu the Japanese commander was Colonel Yamazaki Yasuyo. In 1943, during the nights of July 28/29 approx 5200 troops and civilians were evacuated from Kiska and subsequently the 34000 US and Canadian troops landed to find nothing. On Attu the US 7th Infantry Division(11000 strong) invaded on May 11, 1943. For the Midway portion, the invading forces were "Kure" and "Yokosuka" 5th SNLF, along with Army Ichiki Detachment. scottsmm, i have all the other island garrisons for the late summer of 42, I'll get to them later this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverrt Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 British forces in Burma & India June 1942... - General Wavell was Supreme Commander India and General Alexander was Burma Army Commander. - By June 1942 the Japanese had pushed the Burma Army (1 Div, 4 Infantry Bdes & 1 Tank Bde) west of the Irrawady River. So, the Burma Army may have been beat up a bit. To the west in Eastern India were two British Indian Corps, XV and IV (3 Indian and 1 British Divs). In Southern India were 2 Indian Divs, 1 Indian Tank Bde and One British Tank Bde. - So, for the June 1942 map; I’d give the British one depleted Burma Army Corps; In Eastern India (Assam area) 2 (XV and IV) British Corps; and in Southern India 1 British Corps and maybe a 5 strength British tank unit. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverrt Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 This may bolster SeaMonkey's information.... Two Alaska Command references... 1. Alaska Command December 1941: http://niehorster.orbat.com/013_usa/_41_usarmy/alaska/__alaska.htm 2. Alaska in the War, 1942 “At the outbreak of war the Army garrison in Alaska numbered about 21,500 officers and enlisted men. During the next five months this total nearly doubled, to a strength of 40,424 by the end of April 1942, considerably more than had been planned in the first wartime troop basis for the Alaska Defense Command. A considerable proportion of this total was accounted for by engineer troops needed to rush construction work at the new Alaskan air bases. Getting combat planes to these bases was a more difficult matter… Brig. Gen. William C. Butler, commanding the newly designated Eleventh Air Force… Umnak had a garrison of about 4,000, Fort Mears of over 6,000, and Cold Bay of about 2,500, including engineer troops, but also including balanced complements of infantry and of field and antiaircraft artillery units…. By 1 June 1 heavy and 6 medium bombers and 17 pursuits (now called fighters) had reached Fort Glenn on Umnak, and 6 medium bombers and 16 fighters were at Cold Bay-all the planes their unfinished airfields were believed able to accommodate. On the same day the Navy had 8 radar-equipped patrol planes operating from Dutch Harbor. Air reinforcements, including extra pilots, were being rushed from the continental west coast to Alaska, to bring its strength in modern Army combat planes to 10 heavy and 34 medium bombers and 95 fighters. All these planes were for use at Elmendorf Field and beyond, since by this time the Royal Canadian Air Force had two squadrons of fighter planes at the Annette Island base in southeastern Alaska (and near the British Columbia port of Prince Rupert) and the intermediate Yakutat base had no planes assigned. The total Army strength in Alaska by 1 June was about 45,000 officers and enlisted men, of whom about 13,000 were at Fort Randall and the Aleutian bases.” http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/guard-us/ch10.htm Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Bill, Do you have any resources relating to the Japanese and Americans units in the Aleutians? As I can't seem to find anything accurate enough to implement into my MOD. It would definitely be a real help if you had something good. I'll have a look but I have a strong feeling that my information is no different to what's already been posted since you asked. Give me a couple of days, and if I find anything extra I'll post it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happycat Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Scott, from what I can see in comparing to my own resources, Carverrt's advice with regard to the disposition of forces in Burma is right on the money, for Britain and Japan. I don't think I can add anything to it that would be of any significance in the context of this game. I will look into what the British fleet dispositions should be for June '42. We need to take into account that the Japanese raid into the Indian Ocean took place, and adjust accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happycat Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Royal Navy, Indian Ocean - June 1942 The series of IJN raids into the Indian Ocean from January through April of 1942 sunk a number of British ships (CA's Hector, Cornwall, Dorsetshire - DD's Vampire and Tenedos - CV Hermes). At the end of April, the Eastern Fleet consisted primarily of BB Warspite, CV's Formidable and Indomitable together with escorts. There was a second component of the fleet centered about the obsolescent Revenge class BB's. I did some checking, and of those, Ramillies was torpedoed during the Madagascar invasion in 1942, and most of the others served out of theatre. The Eastern fleet would not have been in theatre as of June 1942, as it was busy off the coast of Africa. Accordingly, I think that the best thing would be to script the return of these ships to occur near the end of 1942. I think you could otherwise keep the production orders that are set in Operation Z. So to summarize, I am suggesting that when the Midway campaign starts, there should be virtually no British fleet presence in the Indian Ocean. It could go something like this: June '42-DD and CA at Trincomalee. One SS at Calcutta. July '42 - scripted (or by production queue) one more British SS arrives. December '42 - Warspite, Indomitable and Formidable arrive in theatre (again by script or in the production queue, whichever you think is easier). Other arrivals as per the Operation Z campaign production table. It is worth noting that by 1944, there was a sizeable contingent of Royal Navy ships, including CV's,CVL's and BB's seconded to Halsey and Nimitz operations in the Pacific. I don't think the game reflects that in any way, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Update on the Aleutians. Kiska was assaulted and initially occupied by 500 marines and assorted support personnel from the No.3 SNLF. Attu similarly taken by the 301st Independent Infantry battalion. These should be the deployed troops for the beginning(Summer 42) campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Thanks to all of you guys. Everything you do makes the job of creating this MOD much easier on me, and also definitely makes it better . I can't wait to do some testing of it when it is completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Happycat, It does to a certain point reflect that, but only if you avoid fighting Japan with your units at the beginning of Operation Z. That way you have a few ships available by Dec 42'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Thanks to all of you guys. thx you're welcome. We are all here to help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 That is everyone from posts #1-45 right? You haven't offered any help to me at all. At best your weird sexual comments have delayed my MOD production. However, because of the help of other normal people this MOD continues to move forward. I think you know what I mean when I say weird sexual comments. With that said if you actually would like to help please don't write on this thread anymore it's a distraction to everyone who is working on this MOD, and it's totally unneeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Can you take a look at this photo, and tell me if you think I made this a little too unfair for the Japanese. I changed the Yorktown’s carrier strength to 9 instead of 12.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverrt Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Scott, Looks great! Yep, the Yorktown was damaged at Coral Sea, good detail! I can see a big battle coming; those Japanese Battleships will do some early damage. I guess it is all up to you if the setup is unfair. The setup you have does seem to favor the Japanese. This way the Japanese have good chance of clearing a path of their SNLF. It all depends on what vision you have for that first turn. I don’t mean to be obtuse, but I find that what inspires you (Bill R. first told me that) is best, go with it (Bill says it much better). Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Okay, but are you recommending that I have Japan to strike first? By the way I owe Happycat for the "good detail" on the Yorktown as he informed me, and I subsequently lowered the Yorktown's strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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