For you students of global climate change--some explanations

[dieseltaylor]

Yes, they very easily could have built the pyramids with the technology of the time, and they did. See something like the NOVA show "This Old Pyramid." Lots of those reconstructions don't get the ancient technology right.

One of the best works on ancient tool technology, although it focuses on the Incas, is Protzen's (1993) Inca architecture and construction at Ollantaytambo. New York: Oxford University Press. Protzen wrote the book specifically to counter the aliens-built-the-pyramids nonsense. Protzen is probably the leading authority on Inca stone tech.

The whole idea that "advanced tech" built the Pyramids is horse****. First of all, let's look at materials. The material is stone. HELLO! Stone? What modern culture on earth builds with stone, when it could build with structural steels, wrought iron, plastics, ceramics, glasses, concretes, fabrics, composities, and other modern materials. I mean, if you want the Pyramids to last forever, all you have to do is build it out of plastic faced with something that will resist erosion a lot longer than the soft stone that composes most of the Pyramid. Second, almost all the Pyramid stone was taken right from the site,, except for some large granite pieces from up the Nile. HELLO! What modern culture ever builds from materials right at the site? If you are building an imposing building, you scour the world for materials and transport them from everywhere. One rock from some other continent would destroy conventional archaeology, but none has ever been found.

From this educational thread

http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=86831&page=2

and this highly recommended site for debunking

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,494448,494477#msg-494477

[dieseltaylor]

The Ford car concerned is a diesel. Diesels have been high in particulates. BTW it is only in the last year or so that US diesel has become refined enough for modern diesel engines. Diesel fuel is more expensive than petrol in the US so that is a cost strike against it.

There are, importantly legislative hurdles to cross. Mercedes and another German manufacturer have just persuaded California that there diesel is clean enough for the US. Shame Ford do not bite that bullet also : )

However there are plenty of petrol engined European cars that give 48+ on combined cycle and the 65 mpg may not be what people driving normally would get.

That is irrelevant. The bottom line is that GM and Ford viewed importing from Europe as not profitable - of course when they can arrange cheaper imports from Mexico, Brazil or China you will see these cars and they will get exemptions like the German diesel cars in California.

[Stalins Organ]

RAM is RAM, and it either works or it doesn't. If properly working RAM came from something channeled even in 1923, that places it way before even rudimentary German work on Stealth commenced, in the form of radar absorbing coatings on the snorkels of late WW II U-boats.

correct - but note hte proviso you included - IF

Thus, you either have to posit that channeled material from 1918-1923 provided RAM effective today or that it was found in ancient texts thousands of years old.

No you don't - you still haven't shown any connection at all - the leap here defies description - "illogical" doesn't even beging to cover it!!:eek:

Here's an alternative - you can posit that well known and documented advances in physics over the last 300 yearsd lead to the development of RAM. You'll find lots of documentation about it all over hte 'net......none of it channeled!

And this little side-track....

One might also ask why, if there's nothing to all this, did the Indian Air Research Development Board not only devote a year of concentrated study to the subject, but then task other organizations to do applied research and testing?

One might indeed - except htey didn't devote a year's concentrated study - one man did.....he's not the entire board nor even a major part of it.....have a look at some of the topics at the Ft Leavenworth site - you'll find students doing research purely for the sake of showing they can do research.

there - if someone chooses to ask the question you now have an answer.

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

Unless you're going to assert that the tasking from ARDB that provided the stealth material is what you mean by one man working for a year, then I suggest you go back and read the front end of the Vymanika Shastra report. From it ("Rao, etc.") it's clear that more than one man was involved; there were, in fact, 29! It's quite clear, too, from the text that there was a lot of legwork done before the formal study commenced.

While Rao may've been the Principal Investigator, I can assure you, based on direct experience over many years, that the others had plenty to do, for they were doing their work, alone or in small teams, then feeding it to him for assembly into the big picture. I've done these drills for Future CAS, B-1B Conventional Capabilities Working Group and many more. Small sections of the overall work can easily consume weeks and months of work. I've seen upwards of a dozen people practically kill themselves for months, working late nights and weekends, to craft brilliant, totally responsive prose for a must-win proposal effort. Section size? Five pages, excluding supporting data and analyses. Three of us alone worked for days to get three paragraphs to proposal perfection! That proposal, which nearly killed the Program Manager via massive heart attack right after contract award, won Hughes Missile Systems Group the AMRAAM (Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile) contract. Today, we call it the AIM-120 Slammer. The classified finished proposal was a stack of binders five feet tall and was flown to Eglin on its own seat in the plane, right next to its escorts. While this Indian study was obviously smaller in scale, the basic methodology remains the same, with everyone beavering away in a particular area of expertise, complicated by the fact that the technical specialists kept having to elucidate many issues with the Sanskrit scholars and religious experts. In short, this effort was anything other than the one man flight of fancy you seem to be proposing to call it.

As for the RAM, it's clear from both the quote I gave and from statements made in the report about obtaining patents for discoveries made during the study that the information is coming from the Vymanika Shastra, Vedas, Ramayana, Mahabrata, etc.

Regarding what was found in the Vymanika Shastra alone the Preface of the said report tells us this.

(Fair Use)

"Scientists with true resolve carried on with incessant efforts. This group included freelance researchers, science laboratories, and scholars. Dedicated topics were taken up for study as specific projects. While freelancers, with their limited resources, came out with impressive results, science laboratories succeeded in fabricating hardware from the treatise as per prescribed formulae. Scholars and scientists from abroad did not lag behind. “Vymanika Shastra” is quoted by many of them for its relevance in many scientific literatures, particularly in USA. Germans were reported to have bought fifteen copies of the work within few days of its release in 1973.

Just quoting the summarized findings from a report of Birla Science Centre, Hyderabad, relating to researches on three types of alloys developed by them as described in the textual content of this work, they find:

“As these materials were found to be novel in their compositions and preparations patents have been asked for them. The experimental results in BISR laboratory established the originality and textual description of the materials in “Vimana Shastra”. Therefore there is a strong possibility that the large number of descriptions of other new materials described may also yield good experimental results in the laboratory.”

Here's the DECCAN HERALD article

http://www.historyofindia.com/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=18

(Fair Use)

Stealth Bomber from Shastra

By: Rajesh Parishwad on: Tue 15 of Apr, 2008 [19:57 UTC] (739 reads)

Ramayana tells of a supersonic-type plane, the Pushpak Vimana, which could fly at the speed of thought.

From the Deccan Herald, Dated Nov. 2, 2002

By Rajesh Parishwad, DH News Service BANGALORE, Nov 1:

A glass-like material based on technology found in an ancient Sanskrit text that could ultimately be used in a stealth bomber (the material cannot be detected by radar) has been developed by a research scholar of Benaras Hindu University.

Prof M A Lakshmithathachar, Director of the Academy of Sanskrit Research in Melkote, near Mandya, told Deccan Herald that tests conducted with the material showed radars could not detect it. "The unique material cannot be traced by radar and so a plane coated with it cannot be detected using radar," he said.

The academy had been commissioned by the Aeronautical Research Development Board, New Delhi, to take up a one-year study, 'Non-conventional approach to Aeronautics,' on the basis of an old text, Vaimanika Shastra, authored by Bharadwaj.

Though the period to which Bharadwaj belonged to is not very clear, Prof Lakshmithathachar noted, the manuscripts might be more than 1,000 years old. The project aims at deciphering the Bharadwaj's concepts in aviation. However, Prof Lakshmithathachar was quick to add that a collaborative effort from scholars of Sanskrit, physics, mathematics and aeronautics is needed to understand Bharadwaj's shastra.

The country's interest in aviation can be traced back over 2,000 years to the mythological era and the epic Ramayana tells of a supersonic-type plane, the Pushpak Vimana, which could fly at the speed of thought. "The shastra has interesting information on vimanas (airplanes), different types of metals and alloys, a spectrometer and even flying gear," the professor said. The shastra also outlines the metallurgical method to prepare an alloy very light and strong which could withstand high pressure.

He said Prof Dongre of BHU had brought out a research paper Amshubondhini after studying Vaimanika Shastra and developed the material. "There have been sporadic efforts to develop aeronautics in the country's history. There has never been a holistic approach to it. Vaimanika Shastra throws up many interesting details that can benefit Indian aviation programme," the director added.

Prof Lakshmithathachar rubbished the tendency among certain scholars to discount such ancient Sanskrit texts and said, "Why would our scholars want to cheat future generations? Unless it was important, nothing was written in the old days. The fact that there exists manuscripts indicates the significance." The academy has also embarked on other projects including 'Indian concept of Cosmology' with Indian Space Research Organisation, 'Iron & Steel in Ancient India - A Historical Perspective' with the Steel Authority of India Limited, and 'Tools & Technology of Ancient India.'"

________________________________________________________________________

If you think that was made up, call the Professor. Here's his contact info.

Prof. M.A. Lakshmithathachar

Director, Academy of Sanskrit Research

Melkote 571 431, Karnataka, INDIA

phones: 91/82-36-58741

91/82-36-58781

email: asrbng@blr.vsnl.net.in

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/data/indiv/area/idsas/LAKSHMITHATHACHAR,M.A..htm

______________________________________________________________________

Recapping, the Indian investigators of the Vymanika Shastra not only identified items of interest, but extracted formulae from the Vymanika Shastra, tested them in the lab, and tasked various specialized institutes and persons to investigate particular topics. One such tasking resulted in a new type of stealth material which in field trials was radar invisible. We're explicitly told that the work of analyzing the Vymanika Shastra has resulted in patent applications, too.

If the famous Baghdad Battery caused a flap, this should be an F5 tornado by comparison, seeing as how it shows us the evidence for a Stealth technology, depending on which source you ascribe as the basis for the information, invented decades to millennium plus before the Germans invented RAM and put it on U-Boats, before Petr Ufimstev published his theory of Stealth via RAM in carefully faceted plates, before Dennis Overholser read Ufimstev's paper in translation and got Ben Rich, head of the Skunk Works, all excited, leading to the revolutionary HAVE BLUE prototype and the F-117 Night Hawk.

We're talking what may well be smoking gun evidence of a civilization so advanced as to make ours look backward by comparison, especially when you consider that the very things so carefully described in the Vymanika Shastra are given prominent coverage in sacred Hindu texts KNOWN to be thousands of years old. In turn, that means that loads of inconvenient items can no longer be cavalierly dismissed as "myth" and will have to be seriously addressed. The Indians themselves labor under no such delusions and have recently found a "lost" city of "myth" as a result, right off their own coast and exactly where the ancient texts said it was. The astounding Gulf of Cambay find.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1768109.stm

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

Here's a much more recent piece of the "lost" place saga. Mahabalipuram, of the Seven Pagodas fame, has apparently been found, and they're now looking for the underwater ruins of the port.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10010991

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wicky]

We're talking what may well be smoking gun evidence of a civilization so advanced as to make ours look backward by comparison, especially when you consider that the very things so carefully described in the Vymanika Shastra are given prominent coverage in sacred Hindu texts KNOWN to be thousands of years old. In turn, that means that loads of inconvenient items can no longer be cavalierly dismissed as "myth" and will have to be seriously addressed. The Indians themselves labor under no such delusions and have recently found a "lost" city of "myth" as a result, right off their own coast and exactly where the ancient texts said it was. The astounding Gulf of Cambay find.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1768109.stm

Regards,

John Kettler

Oh dear Kettler your confirmation bias is showing yet again - no sign of any super advanced technology...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruins_in_the_Gulf_of_Cambay

In 2000 a team from the Indian National Institute of Ocean Technology announced the discovery of "city-like structures" in the Gulf of Khambhat. Their findings were released directly to international media, bypassing the normal academic peer review process. Prominent members of India's archaeological community rejected the claims as baseless and politically motivated, arguing that while submerged ruins may exist, the evidence found thus far is grossly insufficient to support the "grand claims" being made.

Scientific interpretation

According to archaeologists, the "ruins" are either natural rock formations and result of faulty remote sensing equipment and the "artifacts" recovered are either geofacts or foreign objects introduced to the site by the very strong tidal currents in the Gulf of Cambay. The side scan sonar equipment used to image the bottom of the Gulf may have been faulty, and the claimed supporting evidence is purely circumstantial.[1].

Interpretations of the objects and seismic data differ sharply between archaeologists and lay commentators. The consensus among scientific archaeologists is that there is no evidence supporting claims of submerged Neolithic ruins and artifacts. In sharp contrast, amateur commentators, including Graham Hancock, Vedic mystics, and Hindu nationalists, argue that the evidence clearly indicates the presence of submerged Neolithic cities at the bottom of the Bay of Cambay.[1]

[Stalins Organ]

The academy had been commissioned by the Aeronautical Research Development Board, New Delhi, to take up a one-year study, 'Non-conventional approach to Aeronautics,' on the basis of an old text, Vaimanika Shastra, authored by Bharadwaj.

Though the period to which Bharadwaj belonged to is not very clear, Prof Lakshmithathachar noted, the manuscripts might be more than 1,000 years old.

NO NO NO NO - the whole thing is built on this foundation of lies!!

1000 years old?

Its earleist existance is 1918 - end of story, period!

You can't say that something is based upon ancient writings when those writings do not exist - it's a lie. Your constant repetition of that lie simply reinforces that you have no grasp of reality.

so someone ins 1918 managed to write some stuff that was imaginitive enough to be similar to real world items today? So what? That's what science fiction is - applied imagination.

Go read Jules Verne for some rocketry - heck there are columns of fire and smoke in the Bible - does that mean they invented nuclear weapons and rocketry - both of which have columns of smoke and fire?

People have long "looked" to various texts for inspiration for various things and when they find something that vaguely resembes what's in their source they proclaim that the ancients invented it....no matter how tenuous the similarity - this is no different.....except for there being no ancient source in the first place of course!!

So stuff in this new "source" replicates stuff in Hindu texts that ARE known to be "ancient"?? Well...er....what's surprising about that please? The ancient texts are...well..ancient - they come before the con-job - the author knew of them and so incorporates them......that the con-job replicates them doesn't prove the con-job....heck John - that's truely pathetic reasoning!

What you have here is:

1/ a text that is not ancient

2/ which was "discovered" by "channeling" - a form of communication with the dead that cannot be shown to actually exist

3/ providing circular "proof" of it's own legitimacy and

4/ general statements of a science-fiction nature

5/ and when one or more of these statements come anywhere near being similar to something that exists today you claim it was invented as a result of ancient writings, and

6/ using similarities in texts that are actually ancient to show the new text is also ancient - despite that the author of the new text knows of the old ones before he writes!

How many errors are there in your reasoning? About 1 per step.......except for step 2...in which there are 2!

It's really quite pathetic that someone who claims to be an investigator can fall for such an obvious pseudo-religous con-job.

[John Kettler]

Wicky,

Your own article says clearly "did not prove" in reference to claims the material was merely sedimentary concretions. Further, you have establishment archeologists pronouncing judgment over something threatening, if shown to be true, to force them to fundamentally rewrite their textbooks and scrap the very models on which they've built their careers and reputations, not to mention provides their rice bowls. IOW, they have their own axes to grind. What's really needed here is a multidisciplinary team of outsiders, what in my military aerospace days we called a Red Team, to look at the sum total of the evidence and see how things shake out after discarding the standard constraints on the problem. Both main groups should have monitors in place. Dr. Robert Schoch would be good, IMO, in that, while on the one hand he stunned Egyptologists with his accepted by the American Geological society case for the much older than accepted age of the Sphinx, he didn't agree that Yonaguni was man made.

As for the other, you're mixing up two different arguments. I never said the "lost" places were necessarily advanced. I said the Indians treated their sacred texts describing them as factual and found them right where the texts said they would be. The Gulf of Cambay site just "happens" to be where certain no longer extant rivers once flowed, rivers described and named in the ancient sacred texts.

Stalin's Organist,

Your ability to miss the point, apparently by closing both eyes and looking resolutely away, is impressive. Even so, your argument, charitably, doesn't meet the sufficiency requirement. How so? It utterly fails to explain the carefully detailed point that this document, even if it was first revealed to the world in, say, 1918, rather than first having existed 1000+ years ago, has within it technical recipes for substances not duplicated even remotely in the first case for decades; that the technical recipes were previously unknown, hence the patent applications, were tested in the lab, were found of value, and certain institutes were tasked, on the basis of such findings, to conduct targeted applied research, as in the case of the RAM you seem to think came from elsewhere. It didn't, and this is clearly explained in the materials I've cited. The ARDB, as a result of one of many findings from the Vymanika Shastra study, in turn tasked the Academy of Sanskrit Research to conduct a one-year study. The result was a whole new form of RAM.

Interestingly, here's a report on successful RCS testing (94% decrease) of an indigenously developed and produced Indian Stealth aircraft design. Bear in mind in reading this that the Vymanika Shastra report is dated June of 2001 and the DECCAN HERALD article is from November of 2002. It therefore stands to reason that the RAM recipe derived from the Vymanika Shastra and in turn passed on to the Academy of Sanskrit Research must've out performed, in one or more particulars, THE INDIAN EXPRESS results reported January 1, 1998. If not, then why all the excitement?

http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19980101/00150614.html

Turning now to your argument that the dead can't pass information to the living, I cite the remarkable case in John Fuller's THE AIRMEN WHO WOULDN'T DIE. There, the crew of the British airship R101 not only made their "other side" existence known to loved ones via crisis apparition, but also through Ouija boards and mediums. The dead men provided detailed information on exactly what the R101's course, speed, heading were at the time things fell apart, information unknown to the authorities, but also emphatically and repeatedly described specific engineering defects in the design which led directly to the crash. This information made absolutely no sense to the medium or the widows, but was understood by the design engineers at the firm that built the airship, and the requested fixes were implemented after the bizarre claims were carefully investigated and proven correct in every detail. The first part of this amazing story is in the article at the link, but I highly recommend you read the book, which is engrossing even if you only care about the aeronautical side of things.

http://paranormal.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_airmen_who_would_not_die

Even a cursory look at psi literature will reveal a stack of cases in which clear, specific information was delivered from beyond the grave, information unknown to the person seeking it and to the medium, revealing the locations of such critical items as lost wills, insurance papers, etc. Still more interesting are reincarnational cases in which, for example, a young boy now with no interest in the subject has detailed, specific, checkable insider memories as a Hellcat pilot in WW II; in which an Indian woman has not only memories of a past life in another village, but knows where someone else kept spare coins back then, in a village she never went to in this life, and predicted, a priori, exactly what would be there. Turns out the owner, still alive, was dumbfounded, for no one knew where this jar was buried, and the owner fully expected the full sum he'd placed there to be there when the jar was dug up after being in the ground for decades. Thus, not only do we see evidence of life after life, but also of certain memories carried over from old lives into new.

I shall be most interested in your explanation of how technically ignorant wives and mediums managed to produce information the authorities didn't have and identified specific engineering defects in an airship they knew nothing about!

Regards,

John Kettler

[JonS]

Please John, tell us again about the Pz Is on Mars, and the UFOs with under-slung Panther turrets. Those are such cool stories, they never get old.

[Wilhammer]

JK,

You should be writing or consulting for Fringe - unless of course that is where you are getting your ideas.

I swear, everything I have been reading from you for the past 4 weeks has pretty much MATCHED what Fringe is doing on TV.

It is some riveting Fiction, I tell ya.

[Wicky]

Strange as you quite merrily stuff yourself senseless on your very own rice bowl by perpetuating grandiose claims in bargain bin classics such as 'Forbidden History - Prehistoric Technologies, Extraterrestrial Intervention, and the Suppressed Origins of Civilization' and 'Atlantis Rising'.

...models on which they've built their careers and reputations, not to mention provides their rice bowls.

[Stalins Organ]

as in the case of the RAM you seem to think came from elsewhere. It didn't, and this is clearly explained in the materials I've cited.

go on John - humour me - give me the exact wording from it that describes the RAM and it's exact makeup....'cos honestly - I dont' see it in there anywhere.

All I see is an early 20th century aeronautical text expressed in Indian terms, that describes "aircraft" that can't possibly actually fly......

[Yeknodathon]

To you, antigravity is scientific heresy, yet it's documented in ancient Arabian texts, and as I write this, the Saudi government is hard at work on an incredible scientific-technical data mining Manhattan Transfer in those ancient texts. One such ancient recipe has created real world RAM! Not bad for myth! Meanwhile, we now know that Skunk Works head Sinbad, speaking on deep background to aviation researcher Ali Baba, told him: "We have stuff here that would make Stephen Speilburg Hurl Green Chunks" and that Airbus engineers saw "no reason" they couldn't duplicate and fly a good shag pile. But on your say so, I guess we should stick to chemical rockets. Oops! Too late! The Finns have multiple systems operational which employ antigravity. Every major Finnish reindeer firm was actively researching antigravity through 1956, when the subject abruptly vanished, just as our nuclear research reports did when Manhattan Transfer commenced. I've got 70mm film transferred to video of one of ours in flight, have talked to people who were directly involved in testing some of the technology and even a guard who saw one at Carpets R Us. That particular craft's line drawing is in Cooper's BEHOLD A PALE RUG and is discussed by carpet conceptual illustrator Bruce McCutpile h in The Real Important Sounding Disclosure Project's National Press Club Briefing.

While your god, Science, hunts for ETs across the vastness of space with SETI's million channels, it is absolutely blind to the low-flying carpet presence which even overflies Arecibo, to the 10,000 landing trace cases, to the official records of governments, and to the direct experiences of some of its own best and brightest. So full of themselves are the conventional scientists that they seem to think that carpets will land in their back yards and thereby be validated. They seem miffed this hasn't happened.

Science is widely seen as the triumph of Reason over superstition/religion, but it has become a religion, a secular, greedy, hubristic one at that, with scientists as its priests. While it lacks the ability to consign people to the infernal regions in a spiritual sense, it does excellent work in destroying careers, ruining lives, blighting reputations and strangling lines of inquiry with which it disagrees. Nor are its proponents above using physical violence, intimidation and blackmail, as anyone who's ever studied the lives of the truly innovative knows full well. This can be seen in everything from how establishment science reacted to Scheherazade and her works, to the magnificent hatchet job and Big Lie done to Aladdin, as ably documented by Gene Mallove, Ph.D. in his withering FIGS FROM TWITS, which exposed the dirty tricks of the Hot Bath Mat community from his insider position in the Publication Department at Bagdad

Are there scams? Absolutely! That doesn't necessarily mean, though, that some amazing development is automatically one. I cite my cavity, one of the critical... critical... as a case in point. While it's perfectly fair for you to warn of the dangers of stepping outside scientific orthodoxy, I think it only fair to comment that your method, at best, is only likely to provide limited, agonizingly slow advancement, in a stultifying environment of Not Level Loop Pile Here. Because it is so self-absorbed and closed off, it misses not merely the long tubes of floor wear for the Saxonies, but entire universes of possibilities. That, I think, is a far greater down side than the mere possibility of being conned or becoming dumber. Concerning the latter, doesn't thinking exercise the brain and make one smarter?

[John Kettler]

Wicky,

The book you mention, in which I happen to have one chapter on Velikovsky, was and is a bestseller for its publisher, Inner Traditions. It is in print in a number of foreign languages, to include Latvian. As for "stuffing myself senseless" on the proceeds of my ATLANTIS RISING articles and the related anthologies to which I've contributed, you'd die of starvation very quickly on the sums involved. If you wish to improve that situation for me, please go buy FORBIDDEN SCIENCE in the same series. Buy extras for everyone you know! (Insert VO "Makes a perfect gift! End VO) I have 9 of the 42 chapters, making me the single largest contributor, and royalties are on a pro rata basis. Am sure you want me to thrive and these ideas to flourish! If not, you may need a new hobby.

Yeknodathon,

Shows promise! Expect about ten complete rewrites before it's really ready, though.

People,

Anyone actually have anything to contribute on the ostensible thread topic?

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wilhammer]

So, you write crap and they pay you crap - that is to be expected.

[dieseltaylor]

Yeknodathon, : )

I am swayed by your piece[!] but think it lacks suitable links.

And vaguely on topic I would confirm that animals are sensitive to impending earthquakes and as humans are animals then it need not be impossible. Whilst animals are not totally reliable they have a few saves to their names by humans following their lead in evacuating an area. There is a Chinese town that benefitted from this observation and the Chinese did embark on installing animals , snakes I think, in towns. Whether progress has overtaken this EWS I do not know.

Given we are told that earthquakes rumble on around all the time I assume that some because of potential nearness are sufficient to get animals to move. Moving out of a built-up area argues either they fee the risk is high where objects are tall, OR, it also happens in the countryside but there are not many humans to notice.

[hoolaman]

I think its also safe to say that most animals don't writhe around in agony all day because there is a minor earthquake somewhere on their side of the planet.

I think many of those "earth sensitive" guys probably have a real chronic pain problem from an illness or injury. And obviously there is a healthy sprinkling of mental issues as well.

[Wilhammer]

"the ostensible thread topic"

So, this thread topic was a ruse by you?

[Yeknodathon]

Shows promise! Expect about ten complete rewrites before it's really ready, though.

Awww, thank you John, you cheeky little Muse!

Exo-Politics

Open skies over me,

I have waited patiently,

I wait for a sign.

As conspiracies unwind,

Will you slam shut,

Or free your mind,

or stay hypnotised.

When the zetas fill the skies,

Will our leaders tell us why,

Fully loaded satelites,

We'll tell you nothing but our minds.

And I've waited patiently,

And I wait for the sign.

Carried through the centuries,

Secrets locked up,

And loaded on my back,

Well it weights me down.

When the zetas fill the skies,

It's just our leaders in disguise,

Fully loaded satelites,

We can't get nothing but our minds.

I'm waiting patiently,

And I wait for the sign. (Yeah).

I'm waiting patiently,

And I wait for the sign

[dieseltaylor]

Scientists in China say they have developed a new way of predicting earthquakes - by observing erratic behaviour in snakes. Experts at the earthquake bureau in Nanning, in southern Guangxi province, monitor local snake farms via 24-hour internet video links.

Scientists said the serpents can sense a quake from 120km (75 miles) away, up to five days before it happens.

They respond erratically, even smashing into walls to escape, scientists said.

"Of all the creatures on the Earth, snakes are perhaps the most sensitive to earthquakes," Jiang Weisong, director of the earthquake bureau in Nanning, told The China Daily.

The reptiles respond by behaving extremely erratically, he said.

"When an earthquake is about to occur, snakes will move out of their nests, even in the cold of winter. If the earthquake is a big one, the snakes will even smash into walls while trying to escape," he told the newspaper.

Nanning - an area prone to earthquakes - is one of 12 Chinese cities monitored by hi-tech equipment. It also has 143 animal monitoring units.

"By installing cameras over the snake nests, we have improved our ability to forecast earthquakes. The system could be extended to other parts of the country to make our earthquake forecasts more precise," Mr Jiang said.

China is frequently struck by earthquakes. In 1976, some 250,000 people died when the city of Tangshan was devastated by an earthquake.

BBC 29 Dec 2006

Is this anything to do with the Reptiloids!

[Stalins Organ]

no - it has nothing to do with the Reptiloids. Snakes are real reptiles - not a vague alien analogy

[JonS]

[thewood]

Regardless of my sig., I, for one, welcome our new reptilian and earthquake sensing overlords.

[Michael Emrys]

Exo-Politics

As poetry that's pretty weak. Might do as a song lyric though if you can come up with a catchy melody with a strong beat that you can play real loud.

Michael

[John Kettler]

Wilhammer,

I used "ostensible" to show that there was the original topic of the thread and then what it has become.

dieseltaylor,

Good stuff! Do you recall the great frog migration across the bridge in Sichuan before that neck of the woods got clobbered? Did you know that humans have magnetite in their heads, much as migratory birds do? Are you aware that before the great Lisbon quake of 1757, the annals record "man and beast alike" went crazy in the streets? If you contact me privately, I'll be happy to E-mail you an article on I wrote on human biosensitivity, using a stack of studies on various aspects of the matter I took from PubMed. It was a real revelation for me. We humans like to think ourselves beyond terrestrial and other influences, but we are biological entities and can be affected by a bunch of things, to include, solar effects, lunar effects, wind, geomagnetism, etc. Studies have shown impacts on the autonomic nervous system, blood volume, blood flow, heart function, brain chemistry and more. As a for instance, Russian scientists have found a direct correlation between change in local geomagnetic field strength and mortality. The greater the variation from baseline value, the higher the death rate. this is the direct result of the biological stress that results as the organism attempts to adapt to the new field value, and we're not exempt. While it's all too easy for some to make mean-spirited remarks about people who suffer from conditions largely unrecognized by science or medicine, there is a sound basis for what they're reporting. The infrasound issue alone can kill a person, and that's just one damage mechanism at work. The Wiki doesn't get into that biological system breakdown issue, but it does

nicely describe a host of other effects which are known in animals and people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound

This, though, goes directly into which infrasound frequency does what, to include military applications.

http://www.lowertheboom.org/trice/infrasound.htm

Yeknodathon,

Did you write that? If so, kudos on the research! If not, where did you get it please?

Regards,

John Kettler