For you students of global climate change--some explanations

[mike_the_wino]

Suggest you go back and look at your post. Consider what you said, how you said it, and who you said it about.

I wrote it but I still went back and re-read it. Might I suggest you do the same?

That is what I confronted you over, and you didn't like it.

Um, no. Once again you are wrong. What I thought was funny, albeit in a kooky, tinfoil hat sort of way was this:

mike_the_wino,

If you'd bothered to read a little further, you would've discovered that this part of a very extensive, many board site is devoted to reporting symptoms, not making formal predictions. That has an entire board of its own. Earth Groans is for reporting symptoms, what people are feeling and what they make of them.

Further, you have exhibited not merely dazzling ignorance in your comment regarding Earth sensitives, but also rank bigotry toward people involved who have no more control over their particular conditions than you do of your genetics.

Remember this?

My description of how you characterized who we are and what we do was, I think, accurate.

As I feel my characterization of this whole 'Earth sensitive' mess is accurate as well. If you think posting such things isn't going to draw fire from others, what internet have you been on? Hell, you have spawned a whole new term, 'Kettlerian', to describe kooky ideas. I am a live and let live kinda guy but nothing gets my ire more than gawd-damn, touchy feeling, hippy, pinko, peaceniks. Feck, I want to punch them in the neck. Crap like this*:

I usually get a sore throat with Alaska, and was wondering if I'm coming down with somethiong, or if Alaska is going to have a large quake.

Anyway, is anyone else feeling something for Alaska?

Thanks!

What the feck is that?

Oh my, seems like my planter fasciitis is flaring up.....there must be a ringworm out break in Jakarta

Are you fecking kidding me? I would be miffed but my theory is you do this as a spoof and as you do such a good job of it, hats off to you.

Finally, to your charge of visual name-calling....you started it first but with words.

neener-neener

*from hippy website

[John Kettler]

Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution has found the Arctic seabed is seething with underwater volcanoes near the North Pole, and one region has dozens of volcanoes which erupted in 1999, covering the seabed in an area some 12 km across in a layer of volcanic glass. The report characterizes underwater eruption in the North Pole area as a "widespread, ongoing process." It notes that some of the eruptions have soared 1-2 kilometers up through the water. That's precisely the sort of thing which could substantially impact deep currents.

http://tinyurl.com/59ewyv

John

[cool breeze]

Hey John, thanks for the big sounding news. surprised I haddent heard of this else where. I checked you contact info to try and send you a PEM asking for more infos, since you know about so much stuff, but its not listed. Post it and Ill write to you.

Wil and wino, I dont know you or none of this history but you sound like total dicks.

[Wilhammer]

Wow, that is some quality name calling!

[cool breeze]

Is it an insult to call a bus driver a bus driver?

Also, since all the energy our powerplants have ever made is less than a day of sunlights worth Id be pretty surprised if powerplants were measurably directly warming the ocean. maybe with greenhouse gas, but I dont think the cooling could do it.

[JonS]

Is it an insult to call a bus driver a bus driver?

Wait ... are you having a go at JK too now?

Well. That little love affair didn't last long.

[cool breeze]

huh? No, I like JK and I like bus drivers. I dont like total dicks but I didnt even call any body that. I told a couple guys that from reading this thread they seem like total dicks.

[JonS]

Heh. With double speak like that you and JK are going to get along famously.

Best you take an IQ test now, though, 'cos you're about to get a whole lot dumber.

[John Kettler]

cool breeze,

Glad you found the items interesting! I checked my profile, and it should be displaying the contact info. In any event, it's synchrony01 at that familiar expression of elation.

Welcome to the "wonderful world" of board bullying, where those with evidently fragile world views strive ever to stifle discussion they find threatening, meaning they're constantly busy, to which end they are quite prepared to personally assail the poster and not merely the ideas. Further, should you send something winging their way, you'll find, as you have, their skins are gossamer thin and incredibly sensitive. Curiously, it never seems to occur to them that others (their targets) might be similarly structured!

Further, it's not just the outre stuff that freaks them out. I think they become so habituated to knee jerk abreaction, that they even give it rein in perfectly innocuous WW II posts I make. By "innocuous" I don't mean anything involving V-2 silos, German saucers, or evidence for staggeringly advanced German weaponry. I'm talking about posts involving discussion of standard tank armament, for instance.

Personally, I'm glad the advance of civilization wasn't dependent on these sorts of mindsets, since it's doubtful we'd even have fire. And to this, be sure to add a Right Man syndrome that makes Torquemada seem like the soul of the Enlightenment by comparison! They can and will tax you on the most minute defect, while utterly and completely blind to holes the size of the Titanic in their own positions. Moreover, they will expect you to cede point after point under guise of "rational discussion," but you'll

seldom, if ever, see a single point yielded on their side. Should such a miracle occur, the topic will then immediately switch to something else, and it will be as though the other never occurred. Years ago, I saw Robert Anton Wilson discuss this phenomenon, which he dubbed "The Irrational Rationalists." I'd say we have a nice crop here. My favorite example is one in which James Randi, in an effort to defeat a psi demonstration attended by eminent scientists, basically called on his followers to concentrate negative energy on (curse/hex) the proceedings. Thus, he was using a power or force outside of the 3-Space Reality which is the ONLY reality CSICOP recognizes.

Regards,

John Kettler

Regards,

John Kettler

[JonS]

See? -10IQ points, just for reading that.

[Stalins Organ]

My favorite example is one in which James Randi, in an effort to defeat a psi demonstration attended by eminent scientists, basically called on his followers to concentrate negative energy on (curse/hex) the proceedings. Thus, he was using a power or force outside of the 3-Space Reality which is the ONLY reality CSICOP recognizes.

and thus we see the power of circular logic - fear me all you square heads, for I am round......

[hoolaman]

Thus, he was using a power or force outside of the 3-Space Reality which is the ONLY reality CSICOP recognizes.

You mean?! :

[cool breeze]

Thanks John. And some more words. ( edit to add: wink was an accident)

[dieseltaylor]

Also, since all the energy our powerplants have ever made is less than a day of sunlights worth Id be pretty surprised if powerplants were measurably directly warming the ocean. maybe with greenhouse gas, but I dont think the cooling could do it.

Cool Breeze. Agreed compared to the energy from the sun the contribution would be tiny tiny but it is a positive factor and all other things being equal would have an effect in time. It does highlight though the idiocy factor that the sun provides more power than we can ever use but we do not harvest it very much.

As you are new to the forum the JK abuse/baiting you have found shocking. It is. Not all JK's theories are sound but abusing people, or in JonS cases suggesting you will become thicker by corresponding with JK, is rather a sad indictment of JonS 's apparent pre-occupation with slagging JK off.

Given that every week apparent certainties in the scientific world are being overturned in many fields it seems insane to get riled over anyones contributions even if they offend your own convictions. Having said that of course I have deep trouble with aggressive organised religion and popular culture, modern society, traffic, crap food ....... OOps : )

[JonS]

DT - by rejecting scientific method and taking a credulous approach to, well, everything "outside normal science" you will become dumber. You will become more gullible, and you will be ripped off more often.

Having said that, I have this marvellous invention of which I have limited quantities available. It vibrates air molecules at their resonant frequencies to form elemental hydrogen and oxygen. When incorporated into the injection ports of your car this device produces a significant performance boost and fuel saving - on the order of 38.5% - over a normally aspirated engine. This device works on both petrol and diesel motors. I am prepared to sell you one for just US$987.65. I know that seems like a lot, but this is a very delicate, intricate, and finely tuned piece of machinery. Also, consider how much you spend on fuel every year, and what 38.5% of that cost is worth to you.

Be aware, however, that Big Oil and the large car manufacturers are very concerned about this device. If you do a little digging you will come across numerous articles slandering this technology. That is to be expected, sadly.

Send me a PM if you are interested, and I will give it my immediate attention.

[dieseltaylor]

: )

I already have enough investments in the new technology field - some I no longer have and some I monitor:

XAAR - print head technology

Transense - remote pressure/temperature, and remote torque measurement

AFCEnergy - power from waste hydrogen

ImageScanHoldings - Xray technology

AdvancedID - RFID tags

ZenergyPower - very pertinent power transmission management

a risky business investing in newish technology companies. I will see how these do and get back to you next year : )

Having got the NewScientist weekly for the last 20 years and subscribing to many on-line journals I have to take a lot of information in and a lot of it on on trust. And of course a year or two down the line you find things have very much changed. Perhaps I am so long in the tooth that I can afford to be less picky than someone younger has yet to learn how much of all info is subsequently redundant or plain wrong.

For the protection of the youthful perhaps it is fair to attack JK's wacky points. But to attack him personally and rake up old points that new readers are unaware of seems counterproductive.

I am all in favour of science, and of the scientific approach. I also think that the scientific approach is sometimes limited in what it can prove and what it cannot prove does not mean the effect does not exist. Accepting uncertainty is not an unreasonable view for a scientist.

With regard to JK and sensitivities there is a recent article relevant on the NS site which throws doubts on some sensitives claims. I may get time to post it. The effectiveness of placebos, and the ineffectiveness of actual real drugs given with the client unaware of being dose is another area of interest.

[John Kettler]

JonS,

If Science were conducted scientifically and ethically, I wouldn't have the heartburn with it I do. Instead, it professes X and does Y, is far more concerned with rice bowls and reputation, not to mention protecting its funding, than it is with truth or Truth. It systematically ignores inconvenient evidence and attacks those who dare challenge whatever the ruling paradigm may be and has been repeatedly caught falsifying data. Science is supposed to follow the evidence and change the theory if needed, not twist the evidence to fit the theory.

Instead, we have the Egyptologists blithely telling us how the Egyptians did obelisk construction and raising, only to fail utterly using the ancient techniques and have to bring in modern equipment. Nor could the Japanese, using state of the art gear, even manage to build a 1/10th? scale replica of the Great Pyramid.

You insist that only brute force methods will provide electrolysis, resolutely ignoring the discoveries of Keely going back to 1866 showing water can be broken down using specific vibrational frequencies. I provided not only the references but an account of a mid 1960s replicating experiment.

To you, water is just a compound, but you know nothing of the work of Emoto and others on how water is profoundly affected by its environment, so much so that its properties and appearance change. See here.

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm

To you, antigravity is scientific heresy, yet it's documented in ancient Indian texts, and as I write this, the Indian government is hard at work on an incredible scientific-technical data mining Manhattan Project in those ancient texts. One such ancient recipe has created real world RAM! Not bad for myth! Meanwhile, we now know that Skunk Works head Ben Rich, speaking on deep background to aviation researcher Jim Goodall, told him: "We have stuff here that would make George Lucas Green with envy" and that McDonnell Douglas engineers saw "no reason" they couldn't duplicate and fly the Millennium Falcon. But on your say so, I guess we should stick to chemical rockets. Oops! Too late! The U.S. has multiple systems operational which employ antigravity. Every major U.S. aerospace firm was actively researching antigravity through 1956, when the subject abruptly vanished, just as our nuclear research reports did when the Manhattan Project commenced. I've got 70mm film transferred to video of one of ours in flight, have talked to people who were directly involved in testing some of the technology and even a guard who saw one at Edwards AFB. That particular craft's line drawing is in Cooper's BEHOLD A PALE HOSE and is discussed by aerospace conceptual illustrator Bruce McCandlish in The Disclosure Project's National Press Club Briefing.

While your god, Science, hunts for ETs across the vastness of space with SETI's million channels, it is absolutely blind to the ET presence which even overflies Arecibo, to the 10,000 landing trace cases, to the official records of governments, and to the direct experiences of some of its own best and brightest. So full of themselves are the conventional scientists that they seem to think that ETs will land in their back yards and thereby be validated. They seem miffed this hasn't happened.

Science is widely seen as the triumph of Reason over superstition/religion, but it has become a religion, a secular, greedy, hubristic one at that, with scientists as its priests. While it lacks the ability to consign people to the infernal regions in a spiritual sense, it does excellent work in destroying careers, ruining lives, blighting reputations and strangling lines of inquiry with which it disagrees. Nor are its proponents above using physical violence, intimidation and blackmail, as anyone who's ever studied the lives of the truly innovative knows full well. This can be seen in everything from how establishment science reacted to Velikovsky and his works, to the magnificent hatchet job and Big Lie done to Cold fusion, as ably documented by Gene Mallove, Ph.D. in his withering FIRE FROM ICE, which exposed the dirty tricks of the Hot Fusion community from his insider position in the Publication Department at M.I.T.

Are there scams? Absolutely! That doesn't necessarily mean, though, that some amazing development is automatically one. I cite the cavity magnetron, one of the critical inventions of WW II, as a case in point. While it's perfectly fair for you to warn of the dangers of stepping outside scientific orthodoxy, I think it only fair to comment that your method, at best, is only likely to provide limited, agonizingly slow advancement, in a stultifying environment of of Not Invented Here. Because it is so self-absorbed and closed off, it misses not merely the forest for the trees, but entire universes of possibilities. That, I think, is a far greater down side than the mere possibility of being conned or becoming dumber. Concerning the latter, doesn't thinking exercise the brain and make one smarter?

If so, bear in mind that mainstream science is less about thinking originally than it is with repackaging and regurgitating. Scientific breakthroughs happen in spite of, not because of, the scientific establishment.

In closing, I'll mention there's a movie out now about a guy who got ripped off by an auto company. Was it a mileage breakthrough? Hardly. It was a variable speed windshield wiper. If they were prepared to do that to someone over a straightforward technical improvement, what wouldn't they do when an invention threatened their core business model? Bear in mind that the automakers are controlled by the same people who own Big Oil. It's not in their interests to have such breakthroughs. If this isn't the case, please explain why a 65 mpg Ford model isn't allowed to be sold here in the States, only in Europe?

Regards,

John Kettler

[hoolaman]

JonS,

If Science were conducted scientifically and ethically, I wouldn't have the heartburn with it I do. Instead, it professes X and does Y, is far more concerned with rice bowls and reputation, not to mention protecting its funding, than it is with truth or Truth. It systematically ignores inconvenient evidence and attacks those who dare challenge whatever the ruling paradigm may be and has been repeatedly caught falsifying data. Science is supposed to follow the evidence and change the theory if needed, not twist the evidence to fit the theory.

John please don't talk about "science" as if it was a monolithic secret organisation, or as if you had any clue what scientists do all day.

"Science" even as a massive generalisation to encompass millions of people working hard in a thousand different fields, does not ignore evidence and falsify data. That is either a blatant lie, and/or you do not have any idea what you are talking about.

[dieseltaylor]

Failed to raise obelisks? See I have been brainwashed I thought that had been done - perhaps only in Europe.

But on the positive side for the argument of "fact" we are all familiar with the concept of Columbus discovering America - which was taught fact a mere 50 years ago.

While not agreeing with all of JK's points it is true that certain potential drugs are left to languish as being unpatentable the drug companies have no interest in developing them.

And of course spending more money on sales effort than on research does sort of show where priorities are for some drug companies.

Following the auto-industry as I do the idea that Ford could not bring the car over are bogus. Whether it was a good idea to possibly cannabalise their market with expensively produced imports was an important consideration for them. Given the circumstances I may well have taken the same decisions as they have. Admittedly I would have been two years ahead of the curve in seeing the impending crisis : )

[Tread Head]

Yawn, I say again... "yawn"

[Stalins Organ]

One such ancient recipe has created real world RAM!

what ancient recipe would that be then? Specifics please......

[John Kettler]

dieseltaylor,

I'm referring to much ballyhooed demonstration done on NOVA in which traditional Egyptian quarrying methods (rock balls, wooden mallets and copper chisels) were to be used to first carve out the piece, then equally ancient engineering to move and position it. Ultimately, it took modern equipment to finish the excavation, modern equipment to hoist and move it, and, I believe, assistance to put it into place as well. So much for resounding proof the Egyptologists know what's what!

As for the verboten 65 mpg Ford, please use this search term, and be prepared to do a lot of reading: "65 mpg ford not allowed in states"

Stalin's Organist,

The work was done in India's National Metallurgical Laboratory and is cited in my article "The Indian Antigravity Report," which appeared in ATLANTIS RISING, No. 51. I quote from page 60.

"The ancient Indians knew Earth's composition, true shape, orbital inclination, her atmosphere and its compositions from the ground to extreme atmospheric limits, and their material science (based on a wholly alien to Western science of blending organics and inorganics) was such that, using ancient recipes (once deciphered) radar-absorbent material (RAM) has now been fabricated in the National Metallurgical Laboratory."

My original plan in the article was to connect the dots between the mercury propulsion system of the ancient vimanas and leaked Deep Throat reports indicating the U.S. black program TR-3B used something similar, but I soon found myself in rather deeper waters as a result of several blockbuster revelations in INDIA DAILY which allowed me to unearth the real story. My article has a detailed analysis of some of the S&T issues, but here's the smoking gun: a full blown analysis of ancient sacred texts with the specific aim of extracting their S&T content, an effort conducted not just by military (to include a Wing Commander and a combat/test pilot) and scientific types but by Sanskrit and Hindu religious experts! I was amazed this publication was online at the time, and it was taken down later. Fortunately, I resurrected it. Call it quite a read!

http://web.archive.org/web/20050627012151/http://ebusiness.ada.gov.in/library/library/VymanikaShastra1.htm

Here's a terrific, detailed assessment of vimanas, and I commend to your particular attention the part Stealth bomber from shastra. Note that it specifically ties the ARDB of the Vymanika Shastra report to applied scientific research and field testing. Will provide the directly requested item as soon as I can track it down, but I think it's buried in the Vymanika Shastra report, which is quite long. Call this, though, substitute evidence.

(Fair use)

"Stealth bomber from shastra

A glass-like material based on technology found in an ancient Sanskrit text that could ultimately be used in a stealth bomber (the material cannot be detected by radar) has been developed by a research scholar of Benaras Hindu University.

Prof M A Lakshmithathachar, Director of the Academy of Sanskrit Research in Melkote, near Mandya, told Deccan Herald that tests conducted with the material showed radars could not detect it. “The unique material cannot be traced by radar and so a plane coated with it cannot be detected using radar,” he said.

The academy had been commissioned by the Aeronautical Research Development Board, New Delhi, to take up a one-year study, ‘Non-conventional approach to Aeronautics,’ on the basis of an old text, Vaimanika Shastra, authored by Bharadwaj."

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm

This brief item is what formed the genesis of my article.

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/12-04e-04.asp

Regards,

John Kettler

[Stalins Organ]

Wonderful John - thank you for those links.

You do realise that this "ancient" text was discovered by "channeling" aeronautics, and wasn't "revealed" until...oh...say 1952......many, many years after everything in it was well known?

Wiki article on Vimana

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

The core argument doesn't live or die on the unusual origin of the Vymanika Shastra, because the texts being researched by India's Defense Research Organization (DARPA equivalent) also include the Vedas, the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, among others, all of which ARE ancient. Nor does it matter whether it was pulled from someone's backside if the information therein produces technology that works, and the quote, as well as the one I'm trying to run down, show that to be the case. RAM is RAM, and it either works or it doesn't. If properly working RAM came from something channeled even in 1923, that places it way before even rudimentary German work on Stealth commenced, in the form of radar absorbing coatings on the snorkels of late WW II U-boats. One might also ask why, if there's nothing to all this, did the Indian Air Research Development Board not only devote a year of concentrated study to the subject, but then task other organizations to do applied research and testing?

Thus, you either have to posit that channeled material from 1918-1923 provided RAM effective today or that it was found in ancient texts thousands of years old. There are two other possibilities you'll probably like even less: The channeler pulled it from the Akashic Record (since the book already existed and was out there in some form), or ETs/EDs/spirits/? gave the material to the channeler. BTW, the RAM quote isn't from the Vymanika Shastra, but from the Hindu Wisdom site.

As for the drawings, they ARE travesties from an engineering standpoint, but I can show you dozens of equally bad or worse such drawings depicting the infinitely simpler torsion powered and gravity powered siege weapons (catapults, ballista, mangonels, onagers, springals, trebuchets, etc.), to include the famous one Leonardo Da Vinci did of a trebuchet designed to hurl a horse. That one is flat out impossible (no clearance for the counterweight to swing through, plus inadequate drop height), yet we know trebuchets were the dominant projectile engines of the Middle Ages until they finally began to be supplanted by gunpowder. We have dozens of eyewitness accounts and even modern tests (NOVA episode) which convincingly demonstrate the shattering power of the trebuchet, yet no example of an original one from the period survives. To see what I mean about horrendously wrong drawings and illustrations, please see Payne-Gallwey's THE CROSSBOW MEDIEVAL AND MODERN, MILITARY AND SPORTING, With A Treatise On The Catapult And Ballista Of The Ancients.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Yeknodathon]

ATLANTIS RISING, No. 51. I quote from page 60

... but flying carpets come from Arabia?