unit types?

[Kuniworth]

Ok look at that...20 unit types, which are they? Any new?

[SeaMonkey]

And I'm assuming that since artillery can fire defensively at amphibs....they can can't they?.....Then do we have amphibs, or SNLF that can attack from sea tiles?

[dgold07]

Will there be Marine/SNFL units that can amphib directly onto enemy held land hexes (ie one hex islands), or have all the islands (even tiny atolls) been unrealistically made 2 or 3 hexes in size to allow attacking units room to invade without killing all defenders first (which never happened in the Pacific War)?

[Happycat]

Will there be Marine/SNFL units that can amphib directly onto enemy held land hexes (ie one hex islands), or have all the islands (even tiny atolls) been unrealistically made 2 or 3 hexes in size to allow attacking units room to invade without killing all defenders first (which never happened in the Pacific War)?

Totally agree! There must be Marines and SNFL units, who can attack occupied tiles. There simply isn't enough information yet from the developer, but the screen shots look nice.

[Hubert Cater]

Ok look at that...20 unit types, which are they? Any new?

At the moment the basic unit types are the same as what we have from Weapons and Warfare but that is not to say they are the same throughout each campaign or that they function the same way either. Essentially we have a base set of units and we have adapted them as needed for this upcoming Pacific release.

For one example, in the main campaign, Operation Z, you'll notice a difference in the Combat Target Values between China and Japan for their ground units and in the smaller campaigns units have been modeled accordingly to most closely represent the applicable historical size and attributes of the combatants involved. In the Kokoda Trail you would be looking at Company and Battalion sized units while in the Imphal and Kohima scenario you would be looking at Regiments, Brigades and Divisions and so on.

That being said there is also some major differences with how Carriers and Subs are modeled for this Pacific release.

If you take a look at this screenshot you'll quickly notice that Carriers have now been split into an Aircraft strength portion and a Carrier strength portion:

http://www.battlefront.com/images/stories/SC2/Pacific/pearlharbormilitary.jpg

While a small change, it has actually had a sweeping impact on how the naval portion of the Pacific Theater plays out. For one, Carriers can once again become the Queen unit of the battlefield with their spotting range and newly modeled attack and defense capabilities but can at the same time be very vulnerable to attack if caught in the wrong mode by enemy units. For example, Carriers can now run in a Combat Air Patrol mode which is good defensively or in more Tactical attack mode (leaving them vulnerable to Air attack) or a mix of both. While Carriers are no longer automatically sunk if their aircraft strength reaches 0, it will still be something players will need to keep an eye on as there are still disadvantages to having a strong Carrier strength value and weak Aircraft strength value. One addition is that a Carrier with an Aircraft value of 0 no longer spots so this is something to keep in mind as well.

While there is no demo just yet, for a sneak peak of some of the game play, a trailer for the game has been put together that does show some actual Carrier combat in action around Pearl Harbor. This scene is from the grand campaign so it also gives you a small idea about the scale used for the campaign:

For the original non-compressed version of this trailer it looks like Internode Games has it posted here (click 'View'):

http://games.internode.on.net/filelist.php?filedetails=19874

There have also been changes made to Naval supply and it now operates similarly to how Submarine supply worked. Essentially supply is now only decreased from combat so this has worked wonderfully for naval engagements throughout the Pacific. For example, a fully supplied Japanese Task force that sets out for Midway will not be at a disadvantage to an opposing US fleet until combat has commenced. Once combat has started only then will the Japanese player have to decide to retreat to friendly port or remain if it has been decisive enough due to the advantage of the US fleet proximity to friendly waters/ports. Much like in real life.

Subs have also been adjusted in that they can no longer be spotted while running in Silent mode except by Destroyers. The drawback is that they run at a slightly reduced range while in Silent mode as a counter balance. The nice thing about this is that it does not necessarily allow Carriers to run completely supreme as they may not spot a Submarine lying in the lurk and generally requires a properly balanced task force for most engagements including the necessary Destroyers and so on.

While these are just a few of the small changes you can expect, i.e. new sub implementation, new naval supply rules and the Carrier amendments, in general the changes have worked out much better than expected and can quickly be seen not only in the main campaign but in the included Midway campaign as well where it is a real cat and mouse game trying to spot your opponents fleets while running from Subs and attempting a series of landings on the Midway Atoll by the Japanese side.

All in all there will be lots of fun to be had

[Hubert Cater]

And I'm assuming that since artillery can fire defensively at amphibs....they can can't they?.....Then do we have amphibs, or SNLF that can attack from sea tiles?

At the moment, in the grand campaign Artillery does not attack amphibs, but in the smaller campaigns we have included Coastal Batteries that can be used to engage an incoming fleet.

For example:

http://www.battlefront.com/images/stories/SC2/Pacific/iwojima.jpg

Hubert

[Hubert Cater]

Will there be Marine/SNFL units that can amphib directly onto enemy held land hexes (ie one hex islands), or have all the islands (even tiny atolls) been unrealistically made 2 or 3 hexes in size to allow attacking units room to invade without killing all defenders first (which never happened in the Pacific War)?

Here is an example of the scale selected for the islands in the grand campaign:

http://www.battlefront.com/images/stories/SC2/Pacific/marshallislands.jpg

Generally there were a few ways to handle this one and one would be to leave most islands as single tiles allowing for combat from a sea tile, another would be to add a zoom in option once combat on an island commenced, and the third one we chose which was the least complicated from a coding point of view but still worked well from a design point of view was to simply zoom in slightly for the islands while leaving everything else in terms of scale the same.

It actually works well in game as not every island can be defended by multiple units (i.e. the fill each island tile with units strategy) as there are just not enough resources to be had, but at the same time island landings are possible and island battles must be commenced in order to gain control and to eventually be able to move forward towards your ultimate goals.

[jon_j_rambo]

I'll let you guys iron the details out, I just wanna play & have some fun.

[SeaMonkey]

You going to be flying one of those Zekes with the meatball on it Rambonehead?:mad:

If so....you'll know you're in my tincan's gunsights.

[jon_j_rambo]

You can call me "Papi"

[SeaMonkey]

OK "Pappy" as in Boyington, seems we're on the same side.....this time!

My F4U is warming up....need a wingman?:cool:

Which brings me to an HC question. Did you notice those Jap Flattops destroying our US BBs at Pearl. I saw hits that reduced their strength from 8 to 2, one strike.:eek:

Hope there is a provision for an AA upgrade on our fleet assets, otherwise Davy Jone's locker is going to get quite full.

So what about it HC, did those Jap CVs have some sort of surprise attack enhancement in that media clip....or ...what?

[xwormwood]

I like this new carrier concept, and i hope that we will see something similar in WaW and PDE somewhere in the future.

And after ths a way to paste all games together, yes, that would be nice...

But right now i am happy that Hubert dared a PTO-game.

[Hubert Cater]

SeaMonkey, no surprise attack enhancement, rather Carriers can now be a much more potent force when in the correctly selected mode.

Naval combat will have to be re-thought a little bit with the new release as there are quite a few new options. We have David Stoeckl to thank for that as his entry was a winner in the StratCom design contest and implemented here for the PTO.

Essentially Carriers can be deadly when unopposed and in the Naval/Tactical mode, but if you have defensive Carriers in the area then an attacking Carrier's combat effectiveness can of course be reduced. Additionally, if you are caught in the wrong mode on your opponent's turn the consequences can be severe... think Japanese Carriers at Midway

[SeaMonkey]

Interesting, accommendations to David S, a great idea. Carriers are going to be really rough when confronted, or maybe not.

So when you select the first strike mode, then you get to change it after that action is completed, before you end your turn?

Meaning I can go initially with N/Tac strike and then CAP mode or pick another N/Tac strike leaving my CVs in that last mode if I think they're not in danger of being attacked.

Say my CVs end my turn in a defensive CAP mode and I'm attacked by surface forces instead of air elements. Would I have done better at defense against surface forces if I'd have been in Naval/Tactical mode?

[Hubert Cater]

SeaMonkey,

The final implementation is a bit different from the original contest suggestion but not too far off overall. Generally, the way it works is you have to select the mode you would like to be in for that turn and once you have exhausted your unit's AP, i.e. either through a movement or combat, you are then stuck with that mode for your opponent's turn.

At the beginning of your turn you can then switch modes (if necessary or keep it as is) but essentially as a player you will have to think carefully what mode you would like to be in considering your plan of attack or defensive situation, as well as what your opponent may be doing in the mean time etc.

For example, let's say you set sail for Midway it might be a good idea to have your Carriers in the Combat Air Patrol mode to maximize their defensive capability. Then as you are ready to attack, and suspecting your opponents Carriers are not in the area, you decide to maximize the effectiveness of the attack by switching all Carriers Naval/Tactical mode and execute your strikes.

Now let's say your opponent was indeed in the area but decided to leave his Carrier aircraft grounded or was just outside of Interception range you might be in trouble because his counter attack will be devestating on your attacking Carriers since they have no Combat Air Patrol/Fighter protection.

So in this example, perhaps it would have been better to leave half your Carriers in CAP mode, or to have selected the 'Mix' mode but then your attacks would have been halved and now your defensive Fighter protection is now halved. Throw in a few unspotted subs (with the new spotting rules that affect subs in Silent mode) into the mix and you can quikcly see that there are a lots of options and a lot of strategies that definitely make the naval portion of the Pacific Theater very interesting, and quite often, nail biting at times

[jon_j_rambo]

How about the Great Turkey Shoot? Will there be Admiral leaders? How will leaders work?

I want: Enola Gay, Pappy Boyington, John Wayne's Fighting Seebees, Sgt. Stryker, The Bridge Over the River Kwai, I Shall Return, ship names, etc.

[Baron]

Man this is sounding great! I would also like to see a "world wide" game at some point. I'd also like the naval rules to be incorporated into WAW and PDE. It has alway been my biggest complaint about the game. Having said that it is by the the game I play the most and I must confess addicted too

[Hubert Cater]

At the moment there are no Admirals and Leaders generally work the same as they have done in previous versions of SC2.

Hubert

[Nupremal]

sounds pretty good - I like what was done with the carriers - if they have the editor there is no reason the new rules can't be adapted to a world campaign. 256x128 should be big enough.

[jon_j_rambo]

At the moment there are no Admirals and Leaders generally work the same as they have done in previous versions of SC2.

Hubert

@Hubbie --- "At the Moment"....key word(s). Hopefully you'll find the opportunity to consider Naval Leaders, Air Leaders, and other Heroes This will help you with sales & advertisement, get some mileage off their names. Also will build you some momentum when you make U.S. Civil War with Naval leaders.

@The History Nuts --- Can you run Hubbie & myself some numbers on leaders? How about Boat commanders? For Subs? Etc. Would be Legendary.

-Legend