Assaulting buildings - a subject I like to discuss

[Revna]

The tactics I've used so far have gotten me ahead in the game, but my casualties run high in building assaults. Most of it is just pure frustration in getting my squads to assault a room properly. Not sure if it's me or a glitch in the game. An example would be sending a assault squad into room with enemy soldiers pinned down from suppressive fire, only to watch them move down the floor below them and wasting time. Sometimes they don't even enter the room, but just stand there holding there weapons. Another problem I've seen is when moving a squad from the second floor to another room on the third floor, and watching them go way out of there way to get there, even climbing up the roof.

I'm curios to here if anybody else has had these problems.

[missinginreality]

yes I've noticed some frustrating things like that too.

Assaulting into a room where they've identified OPFOR's and then walk over the other side and get mown down is especcialy frustrating.

I'm wondering if an ASSAULT is ordered into a building surely the lead untis going in would lob a few grenades in first wouldn't they?

[Darkmage]

would be possible to have a special command a bit like blast which is only used for building assaults? Would have to be a slower entry than using for example quick to stop it being the default way to enter a building even if it's clear but if u want to take the risk of slowing down before to enter the building in a more proffessional manner then there's a command for it.

[vincere]

Same frustrations shared here. I've wondered a few times why they don't grenade a room first and give it a short burst. They could also go in in statges, ie first 2 through the entry cover the area.

[missinginreality]

"would be possible to have a special command a bit like blast which is only used for building assaults?"

I guess if one used ASSAULT directed at a building then there would be two states from that point that were possible: ASSAULT into a known occupied and ASSAULT into unknown.In both cases a couple of grenades through the door or windows would seem an obvious starting point.

[Revna]

Here's something else I notice. When I've ordered an assault into a enemy occupied building or room, with javelin present. The man equipped with javelin is usually the first or second to enter the room. This has happened to me several time resulting to his death. I assume I could split the squads, but I would think he (soldier carrying javelin) would be the last to enter, or at least not so willing to run so far up ahead.

[Chelco]

I read somewhere that is better to clear buildings with a "hunt" order rather than with "assault".

[missinginreality]

yes since 1.06 I've been using Hunt combined with overwatch to really good advantage and the grat thing is coz of the better pathfinding and AI the time spent in setting up sensible tactical movement orders really pays off; setting a short cover-arc for the group hunting forward and having them supported by a unti or two with longer wider cover-arcs means I can actually now get a unti into a held building with next to zero casualties in most cases.

[Chelco]

Great.

One last thing: the "hunt" order will make the unit to stop on its feet and engage if enemy units are spotted. If the unit is to cross a street to get to a building, that street should be considered a danger zone and the last thing in the world you want is them to stop in the middle of it to engage some threat. IMHO, the best of both worlds is a "quick" order that ends right at the doorstep of the building and then a linked "hunt" order that goes into the building. The downside of this approach is that the unit will spend some time regrouping at the doorstep (IIRC, troops are more prone to spread while advancing on "quick" orders) so make sure you have plenty support by fire covering any other suspected enemy position with LOS on that doorstep.

[missinginreality]

That's it hey? Just takes a bit of thinking and management [that's why I tend to play WEGO most of the time so I can have a cup of tea and think about each move, kind of like playing chess] and it seems 1.06 is rewarding that tactical thinking a lot more.

[SlapHappy]

Obviously I understand that troops assaulting into a building might be at a disadvantage vs. the occupants of said building....and I do agree that the hunt command seems more effective in v1.06 for this purpose.

Still, I wish there was a flashbang or offensive grenade option from around the door area before entering the unknown. I understand this stuff is difficult to code, but it will have carry-over all the way into the WWII game. It would be great if you could do it through windows as well, but I'd be willing to bet that makes the 3d building object potentially more complex.

[missinginreality]

Yes some kind of routine involving a grenade or two in the door would be a good place to start.

[vincere]

grenade and spray? One in while another covers? Then two cover by the door while third goes in? Use of windows, why not, this game is supposed tobe MOUT based? I would like it if blasting a wall in buildigs was easier.

[missinginreality]

A little grenade and spray set piece would be great wouldn't it? And yes I do concur that whilst it's great that 1.05 fixed blasting issues it'd be good not to have it as a MOVEMENT ORDER but as a FIRE order instead. That way the chaps don't have to just wander into the area which seems often ill-advised. Hmm, I might put that in a different thread maybe they can change it in 1.07

[afreu]

Having proper room clearing techniques implemented or at least taking them into account when calculating the results of CQB battles would be a great step towards realism.

At the moment it seems the US forces have no tactical advantage over any type of Syrian forces in head on engagements in MOUT environments. But since the Stryker units are specially trained for urban combat this should be reflected in the game play somehow.

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[Brent Pollock]

I've only just thought of this and don't have time to test it out:

1. Quick or Fast move to the door

2. Pause 15" and Area Target into building

3. Hunt or Assault into building

This obviously has the same problem noted above - hanging around outside the building. I also don't know if it is even possible to give this order sequence, especially if the unit has no LOS to the room when the orders are given.

I've seen no mention of smoke greandes or splitting out teams.

[El Hombre]

When I "hunt" I have seen my guys lob grenades very effectively into buildings.

The trick is that they must know where the enemy hides in the building, which means another unit that has LOS on the opfor must be able to comm with your assaulting unit.

[SlapHappy]

I guess if you are in proximity, your units might use grenades against a building when using the area fire command.

I mean, even if they don't have spotting on an actual enemy unit in the building.

Has anyone seen this happen?

[Brent Pollock]

Okay, testing has revealed a few things:

1. smoke landing just outside the building is enough to let a squad approach right to the door without being spotted by an alert squad staring out the windows;

2. a good tactic in concert with point 1 is for an Assault squad to then use BLAST. They can do it before being spotted. All occupants get whacked;

3. a bad tactic in concert with point 1 is to hunt/move/assault/etc. straight in. Bang - you're dead!

4. a bad tactic as a defense against point 1 is to Hide. The other guys come strolling unmolested through the door, scout about and Bang - you're dead!

[SpitfireXI]

What is the actual point of ordering 'assault' as it does not really do what its name implies. Using hunt to enter the building results in my men stopping where ever they are to return fire even when they are not even in the building.

[Sven Dufva]

I use breaching charges and BLAST command.

First I arrange an adequate fire support group of 2-3 MG teams hosing down the building I'm about to take. Then I send an infantry group beside the building wall by QUICK, followed by BLAST to enter the first floor. Sweeping up the second and the third floor works brilliantly with BLAST as well.

[ForceMultiplier]

One thing that I've noticed is when you send in men into a building, they wait until the movement of most if not all are complete. During this time they're awareness is low. So when I send them into a room with surpressed ememy, the ememy sometimes recovers before my men attack them (even when using assault). The way I get around this is to wait until 3 or 4 enter the room then cancel the movement order. Then they become "aware" of the enemy faster. You've just got recognize that half of the squad is now outside, and probably exposed. Use this tactic with care + planning.

[Tuomio]

I have had very good succes assaulting buildings by using 1/3rd of platoon area firing the suspected enemy position, 1/3rd covering any possible visuals and the last third quicking into the building.

The outcome has been stunning and consistent. I also take the best keyholed approach available, if not available i try to create keyholes with smokes or extra suppression if possible. Blasting trough walls is best option but requires a "quiet" spot where you can have the 10 second picnic.

2 Squads concentrating their fire can annihilate most of the opposition only with area fire, when ranges are < 100m. Often has the "running" squad entered into house to find everybody already dead.

This is something that has not been previously effective, but situation has changed with the recent patches.

[Guinnessman]

Just accidentally discovered a tactic which seems to make asaulting a building a lot easier.

I had a squad targeting a building I knew enemy troops were in as area fire. Once I got an M240 set up to start firing on the building, I ordered the squad to FAST over some dead ground to get up to the building so I could breach and clear it.

However, I forgot to take the area fire order off.

Once they got into position up close to the building, they grenaded and machine-gunned it very thoroughly. I ordered them to breach and move into the building, which they did, firing and grenading all the way, I assume because the area fire command was on.

No casualties going in, and a load of dead enemy combatants on the first floor.

Happy days!