Two weird ways of spotting the enemy

[Webwing]

Just by moving over the houses with the mouse you can hear enemy troops talking and thus know where they are although they have not yet been detected by your troops.

Another way is by the dust track left by moving vehicles. You can't see the vehicle since they haven't been spotted by your troops but the dust track gives them away.

We'll soon find out if they are going to carry on to 1.05

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[ December 04, 2007, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[MiB]

The latter actually makes sense. Dust clouds rise up quite high in the desert.

[Webwing]

Originally posted by MiB:

The latter actually makes sense. Dust clouds rise up quite high in the desert.

I agree. The trouble is if your men saw the dust clouds there should be a red icon with a question mark on top of the clouds.

Second, the trails appear even if your troops are on the other side of a very high mountain.

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[JohnO]

Actual Webwing, I like the idea of a red icon with a question mark moving with the dust cloud. I think I will post this in the Skunkworks and see what Steve will say.

[DaveDash]

I have a question. Does sound have any impact on spotting or is it totally LOS based?

Often I have wondered if my infantry units in a adjacent room have a chance to 'hear' enemy units next door, same goes with armoured vehicles.

I remember in CMx1 you could 'hear' units at night, and I havn't worked out if this feature is in CMx2 yet.

[JohnO]

Another good point, I played a night battle scenario and come to think of it I didn't hear the enemy tanks moving sound at all. You would think at night, sound waves would carry farther and you would hear something.

[Webwing]

Thanks for the answer JohnO,

I'd sure like to know more about that too and what DaveDash brought up. And it goes both ways.

Sometimes the enemy spots you without LOS. Maybe that's not even a bug, they heard you!!!!

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[SgtMuhammed]

I definitely think the sound thing is a bug. Unless by the time of the fictional invasion the U.S. has saturated the planet with hidden mikes. I can see being able to hear the voices of a spotted unit but just hovering over the map when your units are nowhere near the area should not give you a contact, especially since YOU aren't actually on the battlefield.

As far as the dust goes, yes you can see it quite a ways off but that is different than being able to pinpoint individual vehicles. You should be able to get a general, they are over there, type of spot unless you have assets in the air.

[JohnO]

I would like to see an unknown icon for that type of issue of dust trails in the distances.

[thewood]

Did CM1 have sound contacts? I think it, but never really examined some of the icons. I know POA2 from HPS has them and thety work great. The red icon thing made me think of that.

[DaveDash]

Yes CM1 definately had sound contacts. Armour came up as a generic grey vehicle and infantry as a question mark, from memory.

[Cpl Steiner]

I remember in CMx1 the same bug (enemy voices being heard regardless of distance to friendly units) was present in one of the games and eventually fixed in a patch. I can't remember which game but it shows the same sorts of bugs crop up again and again. At least, having fixed it once, BFC should be able to fix it quicker this time.

[bigmac1281]

Yeah, I don't really like the sound bug of being able to hear the enemy before you spot them. I try not to use it. Not to spot the enemy anyway. When I'm supressing their position and I know they're there but I can't see them anymore I'll watch the replay from their perspective to hear if I'm killing them or not, but I don't scout for them by sound. Kind of gamey.

[thewood]

Do we know in CMSF how enemy units are spotted? Does it tell us sound contact vs. spotted?

[SgtMuhammed]

Not that I have seen. I don't think you can click on the "?" icons and the unit icons only appear if you spot them. You can also use the voices for BDA since you can hear them screaming as they take fire.

[hoolaman]

THIS THREAD

AND THIS ONE featuring a reply from Steve, have already addressed this issue.

Also from that thread:

Originally posted by metalbrew:

Also, in addition to ground dust, unit voices, engine noise, and exhaust giving away enemy positions: the camera shakes within 20-30m of a heavy vehicle. If you can't spot any of the other dead give aways, lower the camera near the ground and when the unspotted enemy unit comes close that camera will begin to shake.

[Webwing]

Thanks Hoolaman,

I guess most every topic has already been discussed in one way or another! I've got to start using the search more often.

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[hoolaman]

No problem.

The dust issues is the big one imo because you really can't miss it even if you aren't intending to cheat.

It also gives you such precise position speed and heading that you might as well just render the tank spotted or not.

CMAK's vehicle-induced dust was slightly better I think because it was more of a low-res cloud than an arrow shaped wedge.

This surely needs *some* attention from BFC.

[Pandur]

hm i discovered yesterday by accident;

when you see an enemy vehicle in a town or some strong obstructed area, and it crosses a street for example and you see it just for a second or so, you use "TAB"(view locked to unit) and follow the invisible vehicle to its final destination

pretty lame

[Yskonyn]

That's an exploit!

Sooo Pandur, you actually hunt in-game for these sort of things eh?

Note to self: Never play against Pandur.

[Pandur]

you actually hunt in-game for these sort of things eh?

lol, ofcourse i allways play audio-drone too. i hover over the map as if i would be a drone, imagine i really imagine that.

and when i have a sound contact(who said CMSF doesnt have sound contacts!? ) i order artillery there.

isnt that realistic!?

no honestly, as i wrote, found it by accident

[Yskonyn]

Uh-uh that's what I would say as well to keep some form of credibility.

[JasonC]

"You would think at night, sound waves would carry farther"

Sorry, this is physically impossible. Men might pay more attention, be stiller and listen more frequently in the absence of good visual info, but actual sound behaves identically day or night.

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by JasonC:

"You would think at night, sound waves would carry farther"

Sorry, this is physically impossible. Men might pay more attention, be stiller and listen more frequently in the absence of good visual info, but actual sound behaves identically day or night.

Not quite true, though it's not the darkness per se that affects things. The (usually) lower temperatures at night mean that sound waves carry a bit better. Sound travels more efficiently in a denser media, such as colder air. This effect is most pronounced in desert climates, where the temperature variations between day and night can be quite extreme.

Another factor is wind, which contributes to ambient noise. Smaller, local wind patterns are mostly driven by the sun's differential heating of the earth's surface. Once it has been dark for a few hours, these local winds subside. Less ambient noise of leaves rustling in the breeze, etc. makes it easier to hear other sounds. Of course, larger weather patterns can trump this. If a cold front is moving through, it's going be windy no matter what time of day it is.

But overall, I would say these affects are pretty minor, and pretty darn far down the list of important things to model for a game like CMSF. We should be so lucky if the lack differential sound modeling in air masses of different densities is the biggest thing that is missing from the model. . .

Cheers,

YD