Thomm Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Originally posted by Kettenhund: Rune, do you know abot this ammunition type for 75mm Kw.K. 37 L / 24: Gr.38 Hl / A High Explosive Anti-Tank (penetration data for RHA plate @ 30° 0 m - 1000 m ---> 70mm Gr.38 Hl / B High Explosive Anti-Tank (penetration data for RHA plate @ 30° 0 m - 1000 m ---> 75mm Gr.38 Hl / C High Explosive Anti-Tank (penetration data for RHA plate @ 30° 0 m - 1000 m ---> 100mm PZIV Ausf. A-F was able to destroy T34 up to 1000 meters. But, also deadly sure on 50 meters. Next think is quality of russian poor moulding amor steel... Yeah, but SirReals tanks do not have that ammo?!?! My fazit would be: nice ambush, but the mission is perhaps unbalanced. Best regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettenhund Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Yeah, and why not? ---> Forgotten by maddox or battlefront! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jippo Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Originally posted by Kettenhund: PZIV Ausf. A-F was able to destroy T34 up to 1000 meters. But, also deadly sure on 50 meters. Next think is quality of russian poor moulding amor steel... No it wasn't. Up until Ausf. F2 model IV tanks had next to no chance to penetrate T-34. Ausf. F2 was a direct development to counter the threat T-34 posed. Study before making claims. -jippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Exactly, that ammo is not on the tank, so why look at it? When was the date that ammo was released and in what quanatities? Will have to look it up. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jippo Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 For what I know A came around the same time as IV Ausf. F2 -jippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettenhund Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 The Gr.38 Hl entered service in June 1939. Some clues can be gleaned from Hogg in German Artillery of World War Two where he says of the original Gr.38 Hl design that “...few were used since it was soon replaced by the improved model Hl/A.” I can speculate that the late model Gr.38 Hl/C was used very late in the war because it was developed for so few weapons; nearly all German HEAT projectiles are either Gr.38 Hl/A or Gr.38 Hl/B. Gr. 38 (Hl) was cartainly in use in June 1939 Gr. 38 Hl/A was certainly in use in May 1942 Gr. 38 Hl/B was certainly in use in December 1942 Gr. 38 Hl/C was certainly in use in April 1942 Gr.38 Hl and Gr.39 Hl - Granate Hohlladung. This is the original design for German hollow charge projectiles. It had a deep conical cavity, a short ogive, and a flash tube extending from the base of the fuze to the base of the filling. Gr.38 Hl/A and Gr.39 Hl/A - Granate Hohlladung pattern A. This is an improved design. It had a wider flash tube that did not extend beyond the liner apex and a longer ogive to give a greater stand-off distance. Both changes were to prevent interference with the formation of the plasma jet. Gr.38 Hl/B and Gr.39 Hl/B - Granate Hohlladung pattern B. This design is externally the same as the pattern A. It had changes to the explosive filling in an attempt to produce a thicker plasma jet that would be more resistant to the spin of the projectile. Gr.38 Hl/C and Gr.39 Hl/C - Granate Hohlladung pattern C. This design is externally the same as the pattern A and pattern B. It had an additional inverted funnel in front of the explosive in a further attempt to counter the effects of the spin of the projectile on the formation of the plasma jet. @Jippo Dont call me unstudy... OK? [ May 03, 2007, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: Kettenhund ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Sir Real, I would like the saved game file too if you don't mind. jcostello860@comcast.net Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I still haven't gotten it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Not at home, what is the month and year of that scenario? Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Originally posted by Elvis: Sir Real, I would like the saved game file too if you don't mind. jcostello860@comcast.net Thanks On the way. Wanker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Originally posted by Normal Dude: I still haven't gotten it yet. Ask hotmail why. It got delivered ok: </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">May 3 11:47:36 gator courierd: started,id=00000000004087A8.000000004639AFA6.000073C9,from=<(sirreals_email_blanked)>,module=esmtp,host=hotmail.com,addr=<(normal_dudes_email_blanked)> May 3 11:47:36 gator courierd: Waiting. shutdown time=none, wakeup time=none, queuedelivering=1, inprogress=1 May 3 11:48:33 gator courieresmtp: id=00000000004087A8.000000004639AFA6.000073C9,from=<(sirreals_email_blanked)>,addr=<(normal_dudes_email_blanked)>: 250 <4639B006.3080204@linkdata.se> Queued mail for delivery May 3 11:48:33 gator courieresmtp: id=00000000004087A8.000000004639AFA6.000073C9,from=<(sirreals_email_blanked)>,addr=<(normal_dudes_email_blanked)>,size=4756930,success: delivered: mx4.hotmail.com [65.54.245.104] May 3 11:48:33 gator courieresmtp: id=00000000004087A8.000000004639AFA6.000073C9,from=<(sirreals_email_blanked)>,addr=<(normal_dudes_email_blanked)>,size=4756930,status: success</pre> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Wierd. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Originally posted by rune: Not at home, what is the month and year of that scenario? Rune Where do I check that? It's the Battle of Dubosekovo. 1941 sometimes. The PzIVC are equipped with Gr38 Hl/B (rated 86mm penetration). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 No they are not. Look at your own screenshot, there is not a heat round there. I just doubled checked the screenshot, 21 APC rounds, NO heat. Besides, if the round was in production and intruced in December 1942, why would you think you had it in 1941? Rune [ May 03, 2007, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: rune ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 After some reasearch [not at home with my library handy], the Gr.38 Hl / A did not even begin production until Summer 1941. The B did not start production till Summer 1942. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stic.man Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 can i get the save game too? snapstylez@Yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Originally posted by rune: No they are not. Look at your own screenshot, there is not a heat round there. I just doubled checked the screenshot, 21 APC rounds, NO heat. Besides, if the round was in production and intruced in December 1942, why would you think you had it in 1941? Rune No, it's not currently loaded into the breech at the time of the screenshot. The tanks do have them, though - I've checked that. (At least one of them - didn't bother with the others). As to WHY the tanks have them, and whether or not it's historically accurate, I leave up to 1C and battlefront.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Elvis, and Dude, Look at the saved game file when you get it. The tank he has the screenshot on has ZERO Heat round and 21 APC rounds as indicated to the shell to the right of the gun. The only possible heat round that one of the other tanks may or may not have is the first generation, which had an penetration of 44mm IF I remember correctly. Still not enough to take it out. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Originally posted by rune: Elvis, and Dude, Look at the saved game file when you get it. The tank he has the screenshot on has ZERO Heat round and 21 APC rounds as indicated to the shell to the right of the gun. The only possible heat round that one of the other tanks may or may not have is the first generation, which had an penetration of 44mm IF I remember correctly. Still not enough to take it out. Rune FFS, rune, you're digging yourself a hole there. The tanks DO have HEAT rounds. One of them only has one, the others have four each. The tooltips states that they're Gr38 Hl/B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Originally posted by stic.man: can i get the save game too? snapstylez@Yahoo.com You Got Mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 OK....I have played this file about 8 times now. The first time I took out all enemy tanks and lost 2 friendly tanks. And I only lost that after having eliminated all but one Russian. Second time I lost all 5 of mine without taking out a single enemy. The other times had similar results. If I eliminated all enemy tanks I always had at least 2 friendly left and if I lost all mine I didn't kill more than 1 enemy. I did notice that in the ones where I got wiped out almost always the overrunning infantry helped. If anyone wants to play a fun little battle within a battle this is loads of fun. Edge of the seat stuff. Lots of blowing up clinkity clackity things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Originally posted by Normal Dude: Wierd. Thanks. Check your trash/spam folders. You never know with hotmail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Normal Dude, I just sent it to you from my email in case his doen't go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Thanks just got it. I only played it through one time, I have a busy day ahead of me. The tanks do have HEAT rounds, just not in the breech. I almost managed to win the first time through, one T-34 died quickly, but then the tankers just stood there and watched themselves get shot to pieces. Not sure why. Although I do notice that many of the tankers have very low skill levels. Anyhoo, I don't like the setup of the ambush. Too close range for an inferior tank like the IVC. When I did this scenario it was absolute slaughter for the Russians. I had my tanks set up along the trenches, and the T-34s never got past their starting point. Not to mention, it isnt really an ambush as the AI already knows you are there, what with those infantry in the trenches to the right. I think it isn't so much an issue of penetration values as it that the gunners are way too damn slow getting rounds off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I never said they didn't have any HEAT, I asked Elvis to check since the screenshot you have doesn't show any. Matter of fact, rereading what I posted I CLEARLY ask Elvis to check the other tanks. Remember, I said I am not at home and don't have access to the scenario. Date of the battle still makes a difference. Should be in the briefing. Memory may be bad, will have to look up penetration value of the first generation of the HEAT round. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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