Poland Campaign -1st battle stalemate (spoilers)

[Sivodsi]

Finally got some time to play. On my third try at this first battle I gave up going with the indefensible default position and withdrew most men to the second line of defense, where the farm is, and set up a reverse slope position.

Brilliant move! I survive the first wave with everything intact. Absolutely decimated the kraut and positively saved Poland!

Confidently I await the next wave, and wait, and wait...

Better see what is going on, so I send out some scouts who spy a bunch of Jerry waiting by the first line of defense. Doing nothing.

So is this the scripted part of this campaign? If they don't have a script they don't do anything?

Is there a TacAI? Do I have to trigger them to attack or something?

Its a tough situation since I don't have the right kind of force to attack. For some reason my pathetic little tanks decided to ignore their 'hold position' and blunder forward into the German fire, so now I don't even have a limited offensive capacity. What do I do next?

[Vegeorite]

Yes, at that point other games' AI would just keep attacking every so often until you had picked off and killed everything worth killing.

It's a shock, isn't it?

[Starlight]

I think if you advance a few infantry forward you can cause the AI to start its advance again,

else start the game again with a small force in the forward defences and pull them back as the first wave advances

[Sivodsi]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I was thinking of trying this. Gotta bait the trap to entice those Germans onto my AT guns.

I'll post the results tomorrow.

[Sivodsi]

Nothing seems to be bait for the tanks that are waiting by the trenches. I resort to the tactic of hauling my AT guns into range through cover of bushes to try and take the tanks out, but with limited success. It seems that a tank can spot an AT gun being hauled through bushes at 500m or so. And then can kill all the crew with one shot. I recrew the gun, but as soon as the crew are there the tanks can spot the AT gun again and shoot and this time kill the AT gun. Bloody hell.

It seems this game is a puzzle solving activity in which you have to guess the triggers of the script of the attacking force so that it will play. AI is limited to following the script, then waiting until you move into its LOS.

Frustrating and disappointing that I can't use alternative strategies to play the scenario.

[chanss]

Sivodsi,

I just played this scenario and you really dont need to kill every enemy tank out there. I won it without doing that. I put 2 inf squads and 2 at guns at forward trenches and the rest of my units around the village and threnches there. Was nothing to it really. The tactics you are using are the one to use for winning this scenario. Did you see how many tanks there was sitting around at the 1st line trenches in your game?

[Wildwolf45]

I managed to win this scenario using the reverse slope defense as well. Here's how it went for me.

The first wave crested the hill and my 2pdrs and 75mm guns took them out without problems. The extra gun, TKS's and the car then showed up. I moved the tankettes into my lines and, this is important, told them to hold position!

Tanks absolutely LOVE to wander about on their own, so I use the hold position button a lot.

Anyways, the second wave comes and I deal with them easily enough as well. Then I sat and waited, and waited, and waited just as you did.

I managed to sneak a 2pdr up into the bushes next to the main road, and it was able to take out two panzers without being taken out. But there were still some that would not budge.

Then I noticed that the hill in front of the town stretches a long way to the right on the flank. I sent the TKS's around that ways and came up on the side of the German forces. At that range and from the side the little guns on the TKS can take out the German tanks. Once that was done I just let them go wild, along with the armored car, over the trenches that the Germans had occupied.

Finally, I sent my infantry to the first line of trenches and routed those Krauts! Back to your fatherland!!!

[Maethius]

The real thing with this battle and any other battles is to use large calliber guns and place them at maximum distance from the enemy.

In the 1st Polish mission you get rid of the AT Bofor guns and get as amny 75mm guns you can. Place them on the hills slightly on the reverse slope and blast away. I kept the infantry in the forward trenches to kill the German infantry. The tanketes can be used to bolster the line with limited succes but you spare them untill there are no German tanks left. Then you charge down the hill to for som free kills.

On my second try for this mission even the tanketes managed to kill two light tanks. My total losses were 11 infantrymen.

[chanss]

Uh....I also tried that right swingaround with my crapboxes, but... lets say they didnt get very far........ Does not matter really those Tankettes didnt do much difference anyways. It was my downslope 75mm and 37mm that took out everything as soon as it crested the slope into the village. Odd thing is that there was still german armor left but the game put me as a winner anyway. I wonder how one can check what is the criteria for winning a scenario?

[jdevlin]

To beat this one I brought the two 75mm guns forward on the crest of the hill - they could see the enemy tanks from their starting points. I ordered them to hold fire until the panzers had cleared the tree line and then concentrated all AT gun fire on one tank after another, prioritizing targets.

Afterwards, had two decorated 75mm crews and a decorated TKS crew.

So how does one survive the second battle?

*spoilers?*

I'm able to take the hill and the german AT guns, but then you are counterattacked by about 10 panzer IIcs - by that time I'm largely out of ammo, as are the german AT guns, and my poor little tanks don't last long against a constant barrage of 20mm fire.

I'd like to actually see some of my soldiers advance in level rather than get wiped out in battle, no matter how glorious their last stand.

[chanss]

jdevlin

I am on that one now, I just taken that hill. I will post tomorrow what happend further on. I feel the key is to have the german paks shoot as little as possible before you take them, then they will have ammo left when you capture them.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

*spoiler warning*

This is actually one of the easiest Polish ones ... the devious minds amongst you. (or the lucky)

Take the 75mm's. They are great fending of armour anyway, and, and this is important, have a bigger bang then the German PAKs. Beat off the initial German attack from a reverse slop position. Then go scrounging for MG34s with one Polish infantry squads and also give that squad all sniper rifles. Sneak other squads as close to the hill as you dare, in a wide hook from the hill you start behind. Put the guns on the hill in such a way that they can lob shells near the German guns without being seen. You should take out the crews fairly easily. Failing that the heavily kitted out squad should find a position they like where they can see a gun, then you distract that gun with one of the squads sent on a wide hook in such a manner that the gun will face away from the heavy squad. Open fire with the heavy squad. If any German crewmember lasts long enough to re-orientate the gun I'd be highly surprised. A third method to tackle the guns is to speed your tanks from the hill you are behind to hill a bit further along the river, and from behind that one to the hill. You'll only be exposed for a short time and should get to the back of the German held hill. From close up the ATGs don't stand a chance! I prefer a combination of all three methods, resulting in minimal casualties.

With all guns de-crewed: RUSH! Get to the guns ASAP

and move them down the hill towards towards the river and point them to that place too, the tanks from there will be be sighted first. With this first wave dealt with the lst Germans come over the top of the hill. If you have'nt moved the ATGs down hill there's a good chance they'll be abandoned/overrun before you can get a shot off. If you have, it's a turkey shoot.

If you find this mission difficult, you probably have gone toe to toe with the Germans. Don't! Especially not with the first wave that'll hit you in the opening minutes. They'll eat you alive. Reverse slopes and a sneaky TKS or two(I love them) in the flanks and it's like taking candy from a baby.

[Bill Slim]

To complete the scenario, do you actually have to take the fight to the Jerries? I've knocked off the initial German attacks - knocking out 8 AFV's and 50-odd infantry, for the loss of 7 Poles and one tankette - but now, nothing is happening. However, I am loathe to take the Polish force forward as it lacks mobility and protection and would be easy prey to the residual German force that I anticipate is lurking around the first trench lines.

Is there a time limit I should be aiming for or do I have to exterminate every German on the map?

cheers

[Sivodsi]

Yeah Bill Slim, it seems that you do. This game wants you to play to conform to the script, if you don't do that you cannot 'win'. I can't even get the enemy to commit more than a couple of panzers, the rest are just milling around just below the crest of the hill. These Germans lack gumption! How do we get them to attack?! Its boring just to wait in the reverse hill slope, but what else can we do?

[ChrisND]

Those TKSs rule. I love those little basterds.

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by Wildwolf45:

Then I noticed that the hill in front of the town stretches a long way to the right on the flank. I sent the TKS's around that ways and came up on the side of the German forces. At that range and from the side the little guns on the TKS can take out the German tanks.

that doesnt seem right. the TKS only had a small 7.92mm machinegun as armament. only a very small number of TKS was modified with a 20mm gun - two dozen or so.

TKS taking out german tanks was not the norm - there's a reason why the Sept. 18th encounter in which one 2cm-equipped TKS killed three german tanks is so famous: it was an isolated incident.

IOW, are you saying ToW models the TKS by using the rare 2cm-modification?

[ChrisND]

ToW has both models, I believe that in the first scenario it is the 2 cm version that is present. The TKS (20mm) and the TKS MG.

[Prankster]

I'm just about to start attempt 7 (on the hardest difficulty, there really shouldn't be an option) on the first Polish battle. I was getting close to beating the Germans... before the game crashed. DOH!

[Slapaho]

I made a demo for this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYGrFXCrzso

[Sivodsi]

Nice work, Slapaho! I'll have to give this one another shot.

[met1966]

Slapaho. Cool videos. How ever did you get Stephen Hawkings wife to perform the narration?

[met1966]

CHANNS! Who is the source of the wonderful quote at the end of your posts? I have to know.

[Slapaho]

Thanks met1966 - the voice is for ease of listenig based on not all are english as first language and my own voice is to heay accented to deliver the speech clearly enough imo, so I chose a neutral american voice (from AT&T software).

The quote was, afaik, a member who was later banned from these forums - probably in no small way due to that quote.