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Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips

Oh joy! There goes next year!

handihoc

By handihoc
in Theatre of War

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Canuck Senior Member

Canuck

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Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Oh please; if it is anything like CC3-6, it will get old in about 2 weeks, especially with no way of creating new terrain and having to reuse the same tired old two dozen or so maps.

As far as I know modders have made ridiculous numbers of new maps. There's no need to reuse old maps.
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Michael Dorosh Senior Member

Michael Dorosh

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Originally posted by KG_AGCent:

I know CC3 has around 900 custom maps already made for it. CC5 has around 500 with at least 20 or so complete campaigns. CC4 was a dog and CC6 and CC Marines are dead.

I visited some CC3 map mod sites ages ago; it wasn't intuitive and didn't grab my interest in 30 seconds so I left. Compare to CM's random-map-on-demand system.

I only vaguely recall CC's map mod abilities, but didn't you have to replace one of the game maps with one of the mods - ie there were only so many slots?

Never mind that, once it was done, you had to hand paint the terrain with a custom skin, didn't you?

It wasn't something the average Joe could do, the way you can with CM.

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handihoc Senior Member

handihoc

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CM is superior to CC in many ways - attention to detail, AI, general versatility etc etc. But the early (but not CC1) CC games were fabulous and near endlessly replayable, particularly head to head. That said, the later games in the series suffered through a severe lack of play-testing before release. Things like setup zones and deployment restrictions made many maps unplayable, there were issues with online play, vehicle pathing, campaign tree, random crashes . . .

That's why they failed to sell after a while. Unlike BF, the CC developers - no doubt pressured by their publishers - rushed out product before it was ready. But if those issues are taken care of now - and I sure hope they will be - this Matrix deal is going to be a real treat to sit alongside ToW and CM:C.

We can but live in hope.

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SirReal Senior Member

SirReal

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I am sure y'all want to know what's coming, but if you haven't been following the gossip, then go and take a look on the Forums and you will find more information. However, before you reach for the change of underwear, a reminder that this is a re-release not a new release, and is based on Close Combat III, the version that delivered requisition points, soldier history, superb Scenario creation, (yes yes, and a linear Campaign System). But, there are additions and improvements which we believe delivers compelling game play. For example, you will have to pay more attention to your use of Command Teams!
It's a CC3 mod.
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Muldoon Member

Muldoon

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@Dorosh re: "Oh please; if it is anything like CC3-6, it will get old in about 2 weeks, especially with no way of creating new terrain and having to reuse the same tired old two dozen or so maps."

Your post annoyed me so much, I registered just to be able to respond. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, there is no CC6, only 1 through 5.

And regarding the limited number of maps... there are hundreds of custom maps available, and dozens and dozens of new Campaigns. Check out this site www.closecombatseries.net and you will be pleasantly surprised. I just finished a Stalingrad mod that was fabulous.

Also, most of the new mods are now one file that can be installed or uninstalled with the Plugin Manager software that is also available for download at that site. It doesn't get any easier.

Now pull that boot out of your mouth.

Muldoon

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sebastian Senior Member

sebastian

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Random maps in CM (and in general) get boring too. They look all the same, very generic and unnatural, with few different bulidings and roads going only in 45deg steps. CC maps offer much more variabilty and freedom of design, to match the real world theatre.

I am curious how ToW maps are made. They are obviously not tile based like in CM. The question is if they use an map editor to paint roads, trenches and place buildings and trees - or if the map is modelled within 3DStudioMax.

[ December 17, 2006, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: sebastian ]

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Michael Dorosh Senior Member

Michael Dorosh

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Originally posted by sebastian:

Random maps in CM (and in general) get boring too. They look all the same, very generic and unnatural, with few different bulidings and roads going only in 45deg steps. CC maps offer much more variabilty and freedom of design, to match the real world theatre.

Who wants to take two weeks to make one though? ;) Nothing preventing anyone from tweaking random maps in the CM editor. I agree with the comments on roads and buildings. I am suggesting that a similar full featured map editor would be a godsend - with the ability to change elevation, import 3D models and textures, and "paint" roads on, etc. CC will do nothing for anyone waiting for such a system.

I didn't even mention the ahistoric force mixes in CC, the crappy pathing, and a few other things that others have posted already. Not that I wasn't a fan of it in its day, I scooped up CC 2, 3 and 4 but by the time 5 came around, I had no interest. Even 4 seemed lame, as the campaign centred around the same half dozen maps in my experience. Couldn't get around the whole idea that 3 platoons of guys were actually standing in for an entire Panzer Army, either. The God's-eye view kept the player away from intimate contact with the troops - being able to pan and zoom in 3D connects one far more easily (as do the unit portraits and especially names that come up in the CM interface automatically by just clicking the unit) so it all seemed rather sterile, and if someone got waxed, it was like "who cares". May be for some people, just not for me.

It might be fun to reproduce the CC maps in TOW though if a editor ever becomes available. I did one or two maps in CM which were only briefly entertaining due mainly to the limitations of the CM editor and the change in scale.

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hellfish Senior Member

hellfish

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I remember once upon a time there was a Vietnam mod for CC3 that I liked very much.

Anyway, Matrix says this new version will be a remake of CC3 with a lot of the flaws of the original fixed (i.e. girly infantry, ubertanks, force composition, etc). I'm looking forward to it. CC2 was one of my all time favorites and CC3 wasn't too bad either.

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M Hofbauer Senior Member

M Hofbauer

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Originally posted by Muldoon:

@Dorosh re: "Oh please; if it is anything like CC3-6, it will get old in about 2 weeks, especially with no way of creating new terrain and having to reuse the same tired old two dozen or so maps."

Your post annoyed me so much, I registered just to be able to respond. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Dont worry.

Its just Dorosh.

to put things in perspective, he also categorizes simulations like M1 Tank Platoon as RTS games. go figure.

just look at his initial post... he came from "it is not possible to make maps for cc" down to, well, he didnt know and Dorosh cant make maps for cc.

:rolleyes:

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Tactical Command Member

Tactical Command

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Anybody seen this?

http://www.matrixgames.com/games/game.asp?gid=335

If they get it right, then 2007 will be seventh heaven with ToW, CM:C and now, rejuvenated CC!

While version 2 of Close Combat is the game that "turned me on" to computer wargames, I have no interest in purchasing CC3 or any other version of the Close Combat series that Matrix decides to re-release.

From what I have read, there won't be any major enhancements or fixes made to the original product(s). The purpose of this and future releases is to squeeze some profit out of a series that sold very well in the past. The only promise that Matrix has made is that CC3 will be updated so that it will run on modern PC systems which are running under Windows XP. Annoyances such as faulty "tank pathfinding" are only going to be looked at and if possible enhanced as best as can be done within a short period of time.

The games that I am anxiously waiting for are the following:

* Combat Mission Campaigns

* Theatre of War (A.K.A. Close Combat 3D)

Imo, Combat Mission Campaigns should be on every CMBB player's wish list simply because bugs in CMBB that affect CMC specifically (i.e. the "fortification points" bug) have to be fixed for CMC to work properly. All CMBB players (not just people who purchase CMC) will most likely be allowed to download whatever patch is made available.

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Sneaksie Senior Member

Sneaksie

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CC2 - yess! We played CC2 and CC3 for a couple of years after work. The CC2 had an unique feel of big operation concentrated on one task - holding the road for XXX corps. I remember the yellow (?) line on a campaign map signifying the corps route (too slow!!), battles for last man on the bridges, bloody battles on LZs... You know;)

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FinnN Senior Member

FinnN

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Yep, CC2 for me anyways had the best campaign I've ever played. The tension as you desperately hold on to a few crumbling buildings that progressively provided less and less cover whilst holding out for reinforcements was amazing, not to mention the bidding for ceasefire times. The whole thing was amazingly well balanced with almost every little thing having some sort of knock-on effect to the campaign. Later ones in the series seemed to refine the tactical side a bit, but dropped the ball when it came to the strategic side.

Have fun

Finn

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Michael Dorosh Senior Member

Michael Dorosh

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Originally posted by Canuck_TAR:

I just think he can't handle real time decision making................turn based more of his speed! tongue.gif:D:D:D

I quite enjoyed CC in its day; I might enjoy a new incarnation if pathing and unit mix is improved, though I still don't like the top down view on the artsy maps - too hard to read the terrain. And I don't like playing the same map 10 times. And would love to be able to design my own maps without going to art class to do it.

In all honesty, CC always seems paced too slow, to me, rather than being overwhelming. I will say that the game scale was correct; a reinforced platoon per side was perfect for the type of game it was. And if the terrain was hard to read, the maps were at least very interesting to look at though some of the smaller ones lacked the ability to vary tactics or approaches to the battle.

Given the advances in 3D I'd have thought there was a better way to approach CC; GIC and EYSA proved me wrong, thus far. OFP on the other hand seemed good, for a FPS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we're still waiting for a decent squad-sized man-to-man game that isn't from a 1st person viewpoint. Perhaps we as a community have concluded that CC is as close as we're likely to come.

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