RSColonel_131st Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Wow. Nice to hear Battlefront will rather soon release a new WW2 game. Here are the questions that are left over from the last time I heard about this project - sure would like what came of this: 1) Last I heard about this, when it was still WW2:RTS, developers seemed to say there likely wouldn't be a mission editor. Obviously that makes the game a bit-shortlived if you aren't into multiplayer. Is that still the case - or can we build new missions ourself? 2) Terrain Generator/Editor: What makes CMBB so immensly replayable is the automatically and random generated terrain that always presents a new set of challenges. TOW maps look more polished and more detailed, but they seem to be pre-made. Will it be possible to add new maps somehow, or are we limited to those we get with the game? 3) Back when it was WW2:RTS, there was talk about the maps being too small for many real-world WW2 engagement ranges (1200 meters or more for the large guns). So the developers said they wanted to reduce range on all guns to make up for the small maps. Is that still the case? Thanks for all answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatEtr Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 The engagement ranges/map sizes are discussed in this thread. Originally posted by Megakill: Visible map size is 8 square kilometers, playable part usually takes place on 4 square kilometers. Furthermore the land is very seldom flat with lot's of hills, forests, buildings etc - so line of sight is often blocked by smth. Here's a juicy screenshot to show the range/size. [ July 28, 2006, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: MeatEtr ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 It's still a tad too early to conclusively answer these questions. We've just been handed the ball now, so give us some time to review what is possible and what not. But it's no coincidence that 1C and BFC are now partners. It should be seen as a clear sign of where the developers want to take this game and of their commitment to deliver a true wargame, not just some RTS action game. When we first saw this game it blew us away because we were expecting the latter and saw the closest contender to a "CMBO killer" we've ever seen (by far). And this includes some of the newest RTS releases out there. With a little bit of our know-how and experience and with the support of a great developer team with 1C, you guys will be blown away. Will this be the most realistic game ever? Of course not. Abstractions are needed to make the game playable (both in terms of hardware limitations and in terms of "fun"), but you will have a "deja vu" playing the game reminding you of CMBO we guarantee you that. Except that this time around, you'll see all the cool stuff that with CMBO was mainly going on under the hood... like holes showing up at each hit location, equipment and vehicle parts flying off, individual soldier animations, and lots more. Like, for example, this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markl Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Please add a mision editor or at least a quick mission generator. This looks nice but lacks the replayability (I think)that I like about the Battlefront titles. Cheers MarkL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Wünsche Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Couldnt agree more... As I posted in the other forum... Replayability with a map/editor - scenario/campaign maker is a must! Otherwise it becomes just another WW2 RTS. Sure it may be new and fun for a few weeks but then its gets old and tired when your forced to play the same maps over and over! Its the replayability that gives a game longevity and keeps a community of gamers together and therefore want to buy a company's titles over and over coz they know that they deliver... And BATTLEFRONT are one of the very few company's that do just this...! Heres hoping...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 We'll do our best. I have hopes for a quick mission generator at least, but it's too early to tell. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Martin, hi, I should start by saying that I am hugely on your side and when you said there would be really “big” WWII news you were right, this is huge news for addicts like myself. However… the mission editor is a big one. There is no way round that . I have only played about 20% of the scenarios that shipped with the CMX1 games… I spend nearly 90% of my time on the editors and the rest playing very specific games designed for me by chums such as Andreas. For a great game you need both a great shipped product and a stunningly designed scenario. There is no way round this. I am not asking for a map editor, it would nice, but I am real world about this, but a mission editor is a must have feature for any real wargame. When I get a new wargame the first thing I do is go into the editor and design what I regard as a realistic scenario for the scale and type of game. Realism is in the eye of the beholder… that is why editors matter so much. The developer’s idea of a realistic scenario, and my idea of a realistic scenario, is unlikely to be the same. Not because the developers are wrong, but because when it comes to realism in scenarios we all have different ideas. Only a minority use the editors, but they do form the heart of the community that collects around the best wargames. They give a wargame legs. My guess is that you will have known this question was coming and are as I type lobbying C1 to ship with at least a mission editor . All good fun, All the best, Kip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Hi, Just to add….. with or without an editor I would buy the game but after about a couple of hours I would be thinking “well… what now…” if there is no editor. Real wargames do have at least a mission editor . All the best, Kip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 I should like to add: If the game is done by the same developers as Forgotten Battles, there shouldn't really be a problem - the engine used to be the same originally, and Forgotten Battles uses a simple text format to store mission files in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 And we agree with you Kip which is why we have said that a Mission Editor of some type is something we are working on providing, but if it can be ready in time for the initial release is still up in the air. I have already been able to mimic all the actions of a mission editor on my own by direct manipulation of the mission files, but its a little time consuiming and I would love to have a tool that would do all the jiggery-pookery for me and we are going to try and provide such a tool for you, one way or the other. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Glad to hear that the BFC guys know how much we would like to see a map/mission editor. The effect of including such an editor for longterm playability cannot be overstated. Just to compare: without a map/battle editor I would've stopped playing CM years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 How about doing it like Panzer Command and use XML for some data files that you wouldn't mind people modifying but that you don't have time to create an editor for? It took two weeks from the release of PZC:WS for somebody independent to come up with a scenario (not map) editor, and XML is very suitable for manipulation from third parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by Redwolf: How about doing it like Panzer Command and use XML for some data files that you wouldn't mind people modifying but that you don't have time to create an editor for? It took two weeks from the release of PZC:WS for somebody independent to come up with a scenario (not map) editor, and XML is very suitable for manipulation from third parties. I have to ask; If its so easy, why wouldn't the developer just do it? I always just wondered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Matt, “And we agree with you Kip which is why we have said that a Mission Editor of some type is something we are working on providing, but if it can be ready in time for the initial release is still up in the air.” That’s great news… I knew you guys would be on the case editor wise . Initial release is not required, if it is coming a patch that’s fine. No problem. Once people know it is on the way that does the job. If the text files can be played with that will keep the deranged like myself going. All the best, Kip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Redwolf, Dropteam is working extensively with XML files like that. But it has to be part of the design from day one. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by thewood: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Redwolf: How about doing it like Panzer Command and use XML for some data files that you wouldn't mind people modifying but that you don't have time to create an editor for? It took two weeks from the release of PZC:WS for somebody independent to come up with a scenario (not map) editor, and XML is very suitable for manipulation from third parties. I have to ask; If its so easy, why wouldn't the developer just do it? I always just wondered. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 [double post] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by Moon: Redwolf, Dropteam is working extensively with XML files like that. But it has to be part of the design from day one. Martin Duh. The moment my real-life work gets any lower I have to order that one. You've got a Linux version, too, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by Madmatt: I have already been able to mimic all the actions of a mission editor on my own by direct manipulation of the mission files, but its a little time consuiming and I would love to have a tool that would do all the jiggery-pookery for me and we are going to try and provide such a tool for you, one way or the other. Madmatt I'm actually quite sure that if nothing else comes of it, the community would code something like that themself. As long as the mission files are clear text and somewhat understandable in format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Yep, Linux too. Pretty much everything you said about XML is why Clay and Stan chose to work with it for Dropteam (a cross-platform game and the inter-organization data manipulation power of XML just fit so well ). I have to admit that I was too busy to follow where they are with their "modding guide" or if they posted it at all, but you could also simply email them and ask for more details. I think you'll be stunned what is possible, and while I don't know PZC I bet that this is just as powerful in its implementation. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 My question stands, if its so easy why don't the developers have a nice gui editor like the user-created-one for PC? I am not complaining that no one has one. I keep hearing how easy it is, so why wouldn't a developer do one to generate buzz for thier game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by thewood: My question stands, if its so easy why don't the developers have a nice gui editor like the user-created-one for PC? I am not complaining that no one has one. I keep hearing how easy it is, so why wouldn't a developer do one to generate buzz for thier game? Well, they don't use XML for the reasons I outlined, and that mostly dooms independent parties. Also, many games want to lock up the map to keep the market open in an attempt to generate future revenue without having to do much new programming. This is actually quite common in wargaming. When it comes to the developers doing one themself, it's a matter of programming resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 So for the developers of PC, its really about getting the community to do the work for them. That irks me a little. If developing an XML-based gui editor was so easy, they SHOULD do it before release. Programming resources wouldn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Rutins Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Originally posted by thewood: So for the developers of PC, its really about getting the community to do the work for them. That irks me a little. If developing an XML-based gui editor was so easy, they SHOULD do it before release. Programming resources wouldn't matter. I don't want to completely hijack this, so I'll just post this one reply. We're working on a full map and scenario editor. We decided that the existing XML format was friendly enough for the initial release and that we'd devote our resources to creating a full editor rather than an interim solution. With that said, the fan-created editor is quite impressive given the time he spent on it and does show the power of XML - I'd recommend it in general to any developer. Going back to lurker mode now. Regards, - Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Thewood, you begin to go on my nerves. No matter what anybody does it is the wrong thing, even if on two opposite things. You sound like me 4 years ago On the Matrix forums you are the loudest crying for gazillions of some random features other than an editor. However, you also lack understanding. Nobody ever said that developing an editor is easy just because you can start from an XML file. Developing an editor can still be very difficult even if you have XML. You turn people's words in their mouths. You sound like BFC 4 years ago How you can say "programming resources wouldn't matter" is bejond me. Do you want every game in development right now published in 25 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts