Why the secrecy?

[Hawkmek]

I've glanced at a few threads today and was wondering where Mr. Dorosh is? Is he on Vacation?

3 Day drunk? What happened to him? It must post to every thread, I believe it;s in his contract.

I'll wait and see how CMSF is received, wait for reviews, etc. Then I'll probably purchase the next WW2 installment whenever it comes out.

No whining here.

I don't like most TV, but I don't email the networks. Although we need to do something about all the advertising before/after/during the programs. It is ridiculous.

Viva La DVD!

[Directive#21]

Hawkmek said:

I don't like most TV, but I don't email the networks.

Yeah....but then they have secret little boxes that record your viewing preferences...

[Guest Sgt. Emren]

No, I am saying "DON'T BE A FRIGGIN IMMATURE PRICK!"

Yes... but why don't you just ignore the whiners (really quite a mature response, by the way)? I know they attack you, and I know that it seems that you take it personally. What's the point of spending time reacting to these attacks? Showing the whiners any attention, especially to those with immature and inconsiderate rantings, only encourages them to continue.

Unlike with kids, you can't possibly hope to change this behaviour. Besides, you also have a lot of fans here who are willing to defend your products. Arguing on the internet, especially with whiners, is a lose/lose situation, so don't even bother. You only end up appearing arrogant to the rest of crowd, even to your fans.

Trust me, you have been wrong before.

(By the way, I have not yet decided on CM:SF, so I'm neither a fanboi or a whiner. Neutrality rocks!).

[Battlefront.com]

Viva La DVD!

Unfortunately, DVDs are also getting into forcing commercials on the customer. Blah.

Steve

[mazex]

Originally posted by Moon:

Just a tiny correction... saying "I have spent the past 2 years waiting for a game that isn’t coming" isn't correct. That game is coming, just not as the first release of the new engine. But it won't take 2 years (like it did with CMBB following CMBO) for the second WW2 title to appear. Much less than that.

Martin

Hmm, am I reading to much into this when I think/hope that development of game number 2 (aka "the real CMX2") has already begun. In that case, give us some bones to distract us from whining about the Syrian bulldozing!

When thinking of it, the best way to stop the whining here would be to just do a quick Panther model in the new engine and release a pre-alpha screenshot (even if you haven't started yet).

Then skin one of the Abrams tanks in tri-color Nato camo and put it on a plain green slope like the plain sand pit for the screens we've seen. Say that is for game number 3 and you have me satisfied (yes I DO know Steve does not fancy cold war for some mysterious reason).

/Mazex

[ng cavscout]

Hey, it's a game, go on a date or somefink.

[PseudoSimonds]

Originally posted by mazex:

When thinking of it, the best way to stop the whining here would be to just do a quick Panther model in the new engine and release a pre-alpha screenshot (even if you haven't started yet).

That wouldn't stop the whining at all. It'd just increase the 'Waaah, why are you bothering with this Syrian crap' bitchiness.

You do have an imagination, don't you? Take a look at the level of detail in the CM:SF screenshots and apply it to a Panther. Bingo! There's your screenshot.

[Battlefront.com]

Yes, well said. The only way to stop the whining is to start banning people or to stop everything we're doing and start wasting our time. I'll let you be the judge about which way we're leaning

Steve

[mazex]

To be honest I really don't care that much about the Syrian Bulldozing Party beeing released first. It will be used to test the engine and sort out the major bugs and then we can get the other stuff. As long as you will be able to make the engine as good as you describe it, I see no problem in playing other games until then. I will of course buy CM:SF anyway to try it out.

In the meantime the ones that don't like the setting for the first game will have CMC to play with... Ahh that baby is looking good!

[Peregrine]

I can't understand any whining about the WWII module not being first. CMBB is much better than CMBO so if people can accept that BFC may publish something other than a WWII module for CMX2 then the WWII only crowd should be demanding that the WWII module be no earlier than second (maybe third?).

How many people out there wish they had the CMAK engine with the CMBO Order of Battle? The difference between those would not compare to the pain if you had a CMX2 WWII module first followed by an improved CMX2 Modern combat module.

[Battlefront.com]

I missed this earlier comment:

Showing the whiners any attention, especially to those with immature and inconsiderate rantings, only encourages them to continue.

After 8 years of doing this I'd say it is the opposite. Coddle the little buggers and they reproduce like angry little bunnies I'm sorry that some otherwise rational people confuse disciplining unruly individuals with arrogance. I'd never call a parent RIGHTLY disciplining a child arrogant. I'd instead call them a roll model since I have an extremely dim view of modern day parenting (at least here in the US)

Steve

[Peregrine]

Is this a hint for the third CM2 module

I'd never call a parent RIGHTLY disciplining a child arrogant. I'd instead call them a roll model since I have an extremely dim view of modern day parenting (at least here in the US)

Steve

CM:CN (Combat Nanny). If the CM2 engine is as flexible as I think you guys are aiming for it should have no trouble modelling water pistols and spat dummies. Would the morale simulation for tantrums be like the original CM "fanatic" where nothing in the world can break the tantruming unit in question.

If CM:CN hit the mark I am sure it would get BFC government contracts and every parent in America would have it right next their Barney the Dinosaur video.

[karch]

I posted this a while back, but a silver lining to those wanting WWII ( myself included ) is that new features will probably be figured out and added for the WWII game when it's released that wouldn'g be included if it were game 1.

Imagine if BF had done CMAK second, figured out the multi-turret thing and we would have had T35s and T28s with multiple turrets in CMBB when it was released 3rd.

BF doesn't just slap together new vehicles and leave the engine the same.. they constantly try and make the game engine better between versions as well.

I'm interested in SF but really looking forward to what new features they even add for the next WWII version. FWIW, I'm sure I'll be purchasing SF partially to learn about modern combat. I've been pretty stuck in WWII info for the last... uh.... 25 years.

[Paul AU]

Lotta threads on this, my own (lost) comment on them all;

I'm annoyed that polite "customer feedback"-type comments are pack-attacked by "BFC cheerleaders" in such a nasty and prolonged way.

The heavily used term "whining", is illuminating.

I think that the people who complain about ‘whining’ are whining.

If BCF only wants booster-positive comments on it forums, it should explicitly say so.

I note that customers who are very polite in their “negative” feedback are ridiculed regardless.

For my part:

Fictional Setting: fine with me.

“Modern” setting: fine with me.

USA (“UN”) vs Syria…. Legitimate socicla/political concerns have been raised about this. But I understand that BFC is seeking to maximize it’s customer base.

But, I really hated the “fanboy” ridicule of what seemed to be reasonable feedback.

This is my reasonable feeback.

[Directive#21]

This post was intended to express a strongly held opinion about the way in which the CMSF announcement was made.

My intention was to critisize in a constructive fashion and not to insult. And I have no desire to be associated with members who express their opinions in a hurtful way. And I sincerely hope that my comments were not taken in that fashion.

Since its inception, BFC has been in practice, whether they have fashioned themselves as such or not, a tactical simulator of WW2 combat. CMBO, CMBB and CMAK were all WW2 tactical simulators, and it is completely logical to assume, until BFC stated otherwise, that CMx2 would follow suit. There is a curtain level of expectation that comes with this fact. The longer you anticipate something the greater the expectation. And disappointment is a function of expectation.

Does my opinion matter?

BFC does not maintain this forum for charity; it is an intrical part of their business model and a component of their success. It is BFC's responsibility filter through the noise on the forum and determine what feedback is meaningful and useful. I realize it can be a challenge to keep a professional distance, especially for a small group like BFC who are personally involved with their product. I follow two main rules on this forum: 1.) be respectful and 2.) be honest.

I disagree with the suggestion that I should somehow be less disappointed because BFC has been hinting about the subject of CMSF. And the idea that a customer should have to search and sift through dozens of posts to find information about a product (i.e. CMSF) defines every rule and concept of marketing that has ever existed. Anyone who has spent a lot of time searching this forum for information will agree that only about 5% of the content contains value add information about BFC and their products. And sometimes it seems a though far too many of the threads deteriorate into pissing matches anyway.

There are several negative side effects of a forum like this. The most obvious and significant of these is that that it tends concentrate and magnify the negative. Most of the members of this forum are pleased with BFC and this is reflected by their choice to purchase CMBO and subsequent releases. (As I stated in my original post and restate again in defiance of Dorosh's post, I have purchased multiple copies of all three CM releases and while that fact doesn't validate my opinions, it is the ultimate compliment I can pay to BFC.). As a result, the positive translates into sales and the negative translates to posts on the forum. Thus the forum greatly distorts the overall satisfaction of BFC customers.

Also....

Michael Dorosh's post, while amusing, is about as prophetic and useful as a fortune cookie. And the problem I have with Dorosh's post is that it attempts to undermine those who wish to register disagreement without being insulting or confrontational.

A brief observation on the setting:

(I'm certain that some of the opinions have already been expressed but I need to express them therapy's sake.)

Professional interest alone is enough to justify BFC's choice of subject matter for CMSF, but I am still surprised by it. Regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on, American military involvement in the Middle East is controversial at the very least. On the other hand, WW2 is the penultimate event of the 20th century, and the socioeconomic, political and military implications of that conflict are as relevant today as they were 60 years ago. Also, when one considers the scale of the Nazi holocaust and civilian casualties associated with the conflict, the lines between right and wrong become a little more clearly defined.

For me, the argument on subject matter can not be reduced to WW2 versus all other subject matter but rather historical versus fictional. And for those of us interested in history, there is a central element that is now missing.

In closing:

Contrary to some dissenting opinions, I fully expect CMSF to be BFC's most successful release to date. This will be due in part to an excellent engine, that will incorporate large volume of past learning. But more importantly, CMSF will be successful because of the large and loyal following that BFC has cultivated. And ironically, a loyal following that is largely comprised of WW2 enthusiasts (i.e. 'whiners').

-Zach

[ October 26, 2005, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Directive#21 ]

[PseudoSimonds]

Originally posted by Directive#21:

Professional interest alone is enough to justify BFC's choice of subject matter for CMSF, but I am still surprised by it. Regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on, American military involvement in the Middle East is controversial at the very least. On the other hand, WW2 is the penultimate event of the 20th century, and the socioeconomic, political and military implications of that conflict are as relevant today as they were 60 years ago. Also, when one considers the scale of the Nazi holocaust and civilian casualties associated with the conflict, the lines between right and wrong become a little more clearly defined.

And yet most of us happily play as those Germans in the first 3 CM games. If the "socioeconomic, political and military implications of that conflict" are indeed as relevant now as they were back then why the righteous indignation over the current setting and not over playing as Russians, Germans, etc. in the previous games?

[Vanir Ausf B]

Originally posted by Directive#21:

I disagree with the suggestion that I should somehow be less disappointed because BFC has been hinting about the subject of CMSF. And the idea that a customer should have to search and sift through dozens of posts to find information about a product (i.e. CMSF) defines every rule and concept of marketing that has ever existed.

I'll do you a favor and tell you that BFC has indicated that the 3rd CMx2 game will likely be non-WW2, and I'm betting it will be the sci-fi game they've said they will make. So now you can get all your disappointment over with early.

[TheNathan]

I'm hoping for a near future conflict with China.

Come on baby, daddy needs some PLA!

Seriously though, I really do hope they go for another near-future/hypothetical conflict involving some kind of war between the U.S and China, or at the very least some kind of Vietnam/Korea game.

[Baneman]

To be honest, I'm not particularly interested in Modern warfare.

However, I'll probably buy SM:SF anyway because ...

1) I could be wrong, maybe I will like it.

2) It supports Battlefront who will then bring out a WWII version.

Everyone wins.

Besides, I prefer the secrecy. Now that I know about CMC, I want it NOW