CMSF is still a unique achievement

[dalem]

Originally posted by Chelco:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dalem:

Maybe it's because the core game concept is broken, bugged, and poorly implemented?

-dale

The way you talk about "core game concepts" and "implementation" to people with successful, multiple-awarded wargames on their resumes never ceases to be an amusement.

I'm sure you are clueless about it so let me brief you: the guy you are responding with such condenscendence is part of ProSimCo's team. Author of "Raging Tiger" and "The Star and the Crescent", that guy works on military sims for a living. [/QB]</font>

[Chelco]

Your book means little to me dale.

All I'm saying is that when somebody like Boom$lang write, you read and learn pup.

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Chelco:

All I'm saying is that when somebody like Boom$lang write, you read and learn pup.

Why? Why are you people so afraid of modern tactical combat?

Is it because the pace of it far outstrips your abilities?

Are you uncomfortable with the rapid, ever-changing aspects of the modern battlefield?

Are you upset that your plodding, out-of-date tactics get you killed within minutes on the modern battlefield?

It makes one wonder why you even bother playing wargames if you can't adapt to new challenges. I guess I'd get frustrated too, getting my ass handed to me playing against 14 and 15 year olds who understand the need for quick-thinking and rapid implementation of plans. That must really suck!

But BoomBoom wrote a dumb post!

[ September 25, 2007, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Abbott ]

[SgtMuhammed]

Originally posted by Chelco:

Your book means little to me dale.

All I'm saying is that when somebody like Boom$lang write, you read and learn pup.

Did you even bother to read the post you are defending? Boom was condescending to people he thought were complaining about the fact that the game is modern rather than WWII. dale pointed out that maybe what people were mad about, like myself, is the fact that the game is broken. If god came down and made a stupid remark then he could expect to be called on it.

[RobboG]

Progress is progress and the new engine had to be made. This is the first iteration of that engine and there have been problems, as we've all read. I too don't like the setting that much,even if it is a fictional setting. Would anyone be impressed if Iran made a 'game' about an attack on their nation as a hypothetical future conflict? hehe. Anyway, all that aside, I think in a WWII setting, it would be awesome.

[SgtMuhammed]

Why do people keep assuming that the major problem people have with this game is that it is modern?

If this were CMBO2 then we would have WWII infantry and vehicles running around like morons and not following simple orders. We would have WWII arty not delivering smoke. We would have WWII infantry not moving through a blast opening. We would have WWII infantry not being able to spot a tank sitting in the middle of a road 5 meters from them. The setting isn't what is broken.

[RobboG]

I personally didn't say it was the problem. I just prefer the WWII genre.

[Chelco]

esq,

Your infantry not spotting a tank 5 meters from them bug. Can you elaborate?

[dalem]

Originally posted by Chelco:

Your book means little to me dale.

All I'm saying is that when somebody like Boom$lang write, you read and learn pup.

Why does my book mean little? I'm a sophisticated customer with years of experience with the product.

And Mister Boom$lang comes across like a 12 year old kid, so with his attitude I doubt I'll be learning much even if he really has the background you say.

-dale

[Chelco]

Dale,

With great shock my family found out that after 26 years of lighting the plays of the Buenos Aires Philharmonic Orchestra, my uncle was still unable to play the violin.

Playing games is one thing, designing them is another.

Boom is a straight shooter. I once collided with him and we exchanged vitriolic e-mails over that. In the end I prefer his style. Political correctness tends to transform discussions about substance into discussions about etiquete.

And he has the background I say he has.

[dalem]

Originally posted by Chelco:

Dale,

With great shock my family found out that after 26 years of lighting the plays of the Buenos Aires Philharmonic Orchestra, my uncle was still unable to play the violin.

Playing games is one thing, designing them is another.

Boom is a straight shooter. I once collided with him and we exchanged vitriolic e-mails over that. In the end I prefer his style. Political correctness tends to transform discussions about substance into discussions about etiquete.

And he has the background I say he has.

I don't see the value in discussing a third person in his absence.

In my case however, you are missing my point. You are correct in saying that playing games does does not convey the ability to design them, but it does convey the ability to recognize systemic problems.

In other words, I don't have to be a lower GI specialist to know that sh*t smells.

And you haven't really addressed any of my points.

Is the game supposed to be 1:1 and is not? Yes.

Is the game overly buggy? Yes.

Did the move to 1:1 cripple or eliminate major (I say core) features of CMx1? Yes.

So now what?

-dale

[SlowMotion]

Originally posted by Chelco:

esq,

Your infantry not spotting a tank 5 meters from them bug. Can you elaborate?

I'm not esq, but take a look at the Humvee example here (scroll to the bottom of the page):

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=001850;p=6

[SgtMuhammed]

Originally posted by Chelco:

esq,

Your infantry not spotting a tank 5 meters from them bug. Can you elaborate?

In the red on red scenario that shipped with the game. A squad of infantry on hunt rounds a tall wall onto the main street. About half the squad finishes rounding the corner and is taken under fire. The source of the fire is a muzzle flash 5 meters away in the middle of the road. No smoke, no intervening terrain or vehicles. 4 guys die and still nothing is spotted. Finally the tank is killed by a flank shot from a friendly tank 200 meters away kills the tank. At that time the tank becomes visible and the squad begins to react. Version 1.03.

Brandenburgh scenario from disk. BMP sitting next to a wall. Bradley pulls up right next to it. Neither vehicle reacts to each other. The infantry dismounts and still no reaction from either vehicle or the infantry. Selecting the infantry squad or the Brad causes the BMP to vanish while selecting almost any other vehicle on that side of the map results in the vehicle being spotted. All commo icons are active on both the Bradley and the infantry squad. The BMP is finally killed by a shot from an M1 which also kills half the squad.

We aren't complaining about things that aren't happening.

[SlapHappy]

All this dissension is simply a side effect of the beginning of the end for computer wargaming.

I don't think it's going to survive the endless stream of ****ware titles from EA and the like. When Company of Heroes came out I was shocked to find that the game wasn't anything like what I had hoped it might be - and I fully expected more folks to feel the way I did. Instead, the media had an orgasm and I was left wondering what all the fuss was about.

Hopefully it can at least survive as a niche market - the state it's always been in.

On that note here is an actual quote from a description of a YouTube video. The uploader is showing his "skillz" in Day of Defeat Source. You can't make this stuff up.......

Ignore the 40 years ago .The United states, the British, and the Canadians was taken to a place called Normandy France . Omaha beach is where they landed . when they arrived they were killed and slaughtered . That hitler ****er made some nazis and the nazi killed the soldiers . they use all kinds of weapons both the allies and wehrmacht . the allies used rifles such as m1garands and m1carbines and they use automatic guns to like thompson and bar and the sniper called springfield . the most pawnage gun of all is the 30. cal . the germans use rifles like k98 and autos like stg44 and mp40 and has a scoped kar98 and the most pawnage of all machine guns is the mg42 . there were some panzerschreck and bazooka . the colt was cool too . i dont know the british and the canadian's guns i only know the us army guns lol. the beach was covered up in blood and bodies flying everywhere it was just a disaster . so we owned all them nazis and won by puting a dynomite on the freakin thing and allies won!!the axies lost!! HA!! IN YO FACE!! LMAO YAY!dods

[SgtMuhammed]

Reading that was physically and mentally painful. I think we are now all dumber for having it posted on our board.

[SlapHappy]

Perhaps...

These are the cold realities.....

[Huntarr]

holy crap.... WTF was that? Slaphappy did you touch your monkey on that one?

[SlapHappy]

Welcome to the dark ages of wargaming.....

(sigh)

[dalem]

Originally posted by SlapHappy:

Welcome to the dark ages of wargaming.....

(sigh)

Get Shifting Sands from MultiMan Publishing. Best wargame I've played in a long time.

-dale

[Ketil]

Originally posted by SlapHappy:

[QB] All this dissension is simply a side effect of the beginning of the end for computer wargaming.

I don't think it's going to survive the endless stream of ****ware titles from EA and the like. When Company of Heroes came out I was shocked to find that the game wasn't anything like what I had hoped it might be - and I fully expected more folks to feel the way I did. Instead, the media had an orgasm and I was left wondering what all the fuss was about.

Hopefully it can at least survive as a niche market - the state it's always been in.

Have you read these?

Here

Part 2

and here

[kevinkins]

B00M$LANG

I have adapted well to the challenges thank you. I play wargames from all time periods. As a 48 year old person who's dad is a WW2 I prefer WW2. It's my preference - as it is the bulk of the wargaming community. As the 15 year olds you mention grow up, perhaps they will long remember the hypothetical war in Syria or a few Iraq scenarios they played out in CMSF. Then they will fire up some truly important fire fights from the Civil War or WW2 or Napoleon times etc etc.. Respect your view but the tone was a bit harsh. As a member of a QB team my commitment to CMSF is obvious. It is also obvious that the new engine would had never been launched within the critical WW2 timeframe. BFC make a great decision to test the waters with modern combat first.

Kevin

[jensiii]

I love modern combat, I'm so bored with WWII because I think it's overused in wargames. So I think modern combat is a really nice change and I wish there will be more games about it. tbh I haven't played the CMx1 series, I know there are some bugs and the infantry modelling isn't too good in CMSF but I'm still enjoying it very much. I hope CMx2 develops into some really SERIOUS **** that's going to make me drool while playing it.

[ September 27, 2007, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: jensiii ]

[Abbott]

Originally posted by SlapHappy:

On that note here is an actual quote from a description of a YouTube video. The uploader is showing his "skillz" in Day of Defeat Source. You can't make this stuff up.......

Ignore the 40 years ago .The United states, the British, and the Canadians was taken to a place called Normandy France . Omaha beach is where they landed . when they arrived they were killed and slaughtered . That hitler ****er made some nazis and the nazi killed the soldiers . they use all kinds of weapons both the allies and wehrmacht . the allies used rifles such as m1garands and m1carbines and they use automatic guns to like thompson and bar and the sniper called springfield . the most pawnage gun of all is the 30. cal . the germans use rifles like k98 and autos like stg44 and mp40 and has a scoped kar98 and the most pawnage of all machine guns is the mg42 . there were some panzerschreck and bazooka . the colt was cool too . i dont know the british and the canadian's guns i only know the us army guns lol. the beach was covered up in blood and bodies flying everywhere it was just a disaster . so we owned all them nazis and won by puting a dynomite on the freakin thing and allies won!!the axies lost!! HA!! IN YO FACE!! LMAO YAY!dods

Heh, isn't that the truth! Back in the day I was able to get my my 15 year old nephew interested in playing CMBO. It took him about a week to discover that German SMG infantry rushing the map RULEZ ALL DUDES!!! The U.S. Infantry was ok if you loaded them all up on 75mm gun carriers and rushed the map DUDE!!! other then that the U.S. infantry was major SUCKAGE! I could not get him to understand that tactics were an interesting part of small unit combat because tactics did not RULEZ DUDE!!!

[SgtMuhammed]

I don't think Charles, Steve, Matt, and Dan are Uniques. Now Martin on the other hand... I'm just saying.

[hoolaman]

Originally posted by SlapHappy:

Ignore the 40 years ago .The United states, the British, and the Canadians was taken to a place called Normandy France . Omaha beach is where they landed . when they arrived they were killed and slaughtered . That hitler ****er made some nazis and the nazi killed the soldiers . they use all kinds of weapons both the allies and wehrmacht . the allies used rifles such as m1garands and m1carbines and they use automatic guns to like thompson and bar and the sniper called springfield . the most pawnage gun of all is the 30. cal . the germans use rifles like k98 and autos like stg44 and mp40 and has a scoped kar98 and the most pawnage of all machine guns is the mg42 . there were some panzerschreck and bazooka . the colt was cool too . i dont know the british and the canadian's guns i only know the us army guns lol. the beach was covered up in blood and bodies flying everywhere it was just a disaster . so we owned all them nazis and won by puting a dynomite on the freakin thing and allies won!!the axies lost!! HA!! IN YO FACE!! LMAO YAY!dods

Maybe I have a mental problem but I love Youtube comments. Its like a cascade of grafitti on a wall. Some are intelligent, most are Homer Simpson-like in their idiocy, but I love it even if it's just "you are a dumbass lol"