First Impressions of 1.04

[majorfatal]

Great patch!CMSF is now a very addictive game,if it's tuned a little bit more it will be wonderfull!

[Ritter_85]

i should try those city fighting maps so there will be more close combat situations ..

[Childress]

Originally posted by thewood:

That is a good point about reversing AFVs. I have yet to see that.

LOL. As it stands now, a T55 will stand toe to toe with an Abrams and duke it out. Syrians tankers seem to be missing that useful self-preservation gene. Or it could be sheer chutzpah.

Fewer bugs, better performance but version 1.04 is still missing a lot the *stuff* that contributed to the fun, realism and (not least of all) immersion factor evident in the older games. 1.05 could be the magic number- but it will have to be a meaty download, imo.

[vulture]

Originally posted by Childress:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by thewood:

That is a good point about reversing AFVs. I have yet to see that.

LOL. As it stands now, a T55 will stand toe to toe with an Abrams and duke it out. Syrians tankers seem to be missing that useful self-preservation gene. Or it could be sheer chutzpah.

</font>

[thewood]

T55, T62, T72, Stryker, etc. None will retreat under self preservation. There is no way anyone can tell me a Stryker will stand toe-to-toe in rela life with a T72.

Any comment from BFC on this. It has been asked a few times now...

[stikkypixie]

I think they're still trying to find the balance between not retreating at all and that cower routine from CMBB where tanks would retreat away from perfectly good flank shots.

[RAYMAN]

1.04 is good but does anyone know how to remove the blackness of the parts that are out of site of your units, like in the old patches. Because I think its a better experience if you see the whole battlefield even if it slows down the FPS a lil bit.

[aka_tom_w]

remember this thread when v1.05 comes out!

and compare your results!

[PeterLorre86]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

remember this thread when v1.05 comes out!

and compare your results!

Hmmmmmmm... Could this be a hint that 1.05 is near?

[panzermartin]

Hmm, I'm giving the game a last chance with 1.05. If multiplayer is still problematic I will shelve it for good I'm afraid

[H.W. Guderian]

Originally posted by thewood:

T55, T62, T72, Stryker, etc. None will retreat under self preservation. There is no way anyone can tell me a Stryker will stand toe-to-toe in rela life with a T72.

Any comment from BFC on this. It has been asked a few times now...

. . . and how bout a Stryker force not only retreating behind cover at the first sign of serious Red armor . . . but maybe the AI could even take the bold move of then deploying boots with javs to actually do something about such a threat?

Any chance we'll see an AI that actually makes use of core AT resources in 1.05?

At the moment AI Strykers appear to just bumble forward toward whatever AI "objectives" exist and then, if they make it, sit parked there with apparently no regard for enemy facing or any idea of deploying boots with javs to fend off armor or mech threats?

I've moved back to playing CMBB & CMAK as CMSF solo gameplay remains often frustrating, un-immersive, and insipid.

Holding out hopes for 1.05 . . . or 1.0*?

Thanks in advance for any insight on related fixes in 1.05 and beyond.

[aka_tom_w]

"and how bout a Stryker force not only retreating behind cover at the first sign of serious Red armor . . . but maybe the AI could even take the bold move of then deploying boots with javs to actually do something about such a threat?"

OK

I could be wrong about this but I think the clever scenario designer can script or program the Blue side AI to dismount troops at a certain time or location, but not really in response to a Armour threat directly. That would be nice, yes.

This is therefore more problematic in Quick battles where no human brain has scripted the AI response like in a planned or designed scenario.

It might be really hard to make the AI do what you have requested but it is not really an unreasonable request. (I think)

[Huntarr]

A stryker evading armor would not be bad, but I don't want them to deploy for me. That starts getting into the realm of what is the player for. IMHO

[M1A1TC]

If you are playing WEGO, and your Stryker gets is spotted and engaged by enemy armored vehicle, what is the current response? It sits there, taking shot after shot for 60 seconds, or until it's destroyed.

Id rather it deploy a javelin AT team and attempt to destroy the threat, while overwatching with onboard weapons

I never play Real Time, so a smart Tac AI is important to me

[aka_tom_w]

Well there you have it

In my response I did not factor in WEGO play, to be honest I have only been playing realtime so it had not occured to me. My answer was based upon thinking that the player was playing the Red Side and the AI was controlling the US strykers.

It might be A LOT to ask for the Tac AI to have the Stryker based dismounts aquire the Javelins and dismount and deploy and fire the Javelin in response to an armoured threat (without player intervention). To be fair to the game and BFC I'm not sure that is possible. (Even it would be desireable, which might be up in the air.)

[M1A1TC]

Would you rather have the Stryker with all the dismounts get destroyed, or AT team desmount and fire AT-4 or Javelin at the enemy? (I am talking about human vs AI WEGO of course)

I dont think its that hard to program. They could also mount up automatically after the armored threat is gone

Does anyone know what is done in RL in this situation? I would assume that AT team dismounts to kill the enemy tank

[aka_tom_w]

sorry

"Does anyone know what is done in RL in this situation? I would assume that AT team dismounts to kill the enemy tank"

NO

in the game as it stands now in v1.04 it is unrealistic to expect the TAC AI to have the dismounts acquire the Javelin and dismount and Aim and engage and fire the missile against and armoured threat without human player intervention. The code is just not there yet! (AND if it was "easy" to do it would already be in the game and as you have mentioned it is not! so don't expect it any time soon!)

sorry

[ November 14, 2007, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[H.W. Guderian]

Originally posted by Huntarr:

A stryker evading armor would not be bad, but I don't want them to deploy for me. That starts getting into the realm of what is the player for. IMHO

Maybe I was confusing in my post?

I wasn't referring to player controlled forces and the AI that deals with how they react second by second (I honestly don't know the names of the different "AI's" so excuse my ignorance).

I was trying to point out that playing Red vs Blue AI is seriously broken if Red has any armor. In this case the Blue AI:

(1) appears to ignore the vulnerability of Strykers to T-72's

(2) appears to ignore the AT assets Blue has on hand - namely the Jav's

I'm not sure how others deal with Red armor when they play Blue with Strykers but, for me, parking the bus in a shady, hidden spot and sneaking the boots round with some Jav's is the only way I know how?

As of 1.04 the "Blue AI" seems very broken to me - and I'm one of those players who has little free time and simply wants to regularly play a small, solo WEGO QB. Thats what I paid my $$$ to BFC for.

But I'm loving CMAK again. =) It's real wargaming fun!

Thank god QB's in CMX1 continue to deliver an entertaining gaming experience.

[Other Means]

In my experience, AFV's don't miss often enough to get a chance to deploy, let alone grab a Jav launcher and deploy. So what's required is for the Stryker unit to sense the threat *before* coming under fire.

And if it could do that, it would probably be classified.

[Thomm]

Originally posted by Other Means:

In my experience, AFV's don't miss often enough to get a chance to deploy, let alone grab a Jav launcher and deploy.

You are right.

But there is also the option of retreating/reversing instantly upon sigthing an AFV, and then deploying the AT team under cover of terrain or buildings.

It would be great if the AI could handle this!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Cpl Steiner]

In RL, would it not be possible for one of the "air guard" soldiers to equip a Javelin and fire it from the open hatch? Surely this would be preferable to physically leaving the vehicle and becoming exposed to potential small arms fire whilst dealing with the threat?

[thewood]

I find it funny that a behavior we took for granted in CM1 was left out of CM2, namely the retreat capability of AFVs in trouble. I had assumed that since so much time had been spent discussing it in CM1, it would carry over to CMSF.

That is one of those things that gives me the impression that WEGO not a primary consideration in CMSF.

[H.W. Guderian]

Originally posted by Other Means:

In my experience, AFV's don't miss often enough to get a chance to deploy, let alone grab a Jav launcher and deploy. So what's required is for the Stryker unit to sense the threat *before* coming under fire.

And if it could do that, it would probably be classified.

Are you telling me that when the word "tanks" comes across the radio or PDA or all the rest of those C2 gizmos and the lead Stryker goes up in smoke that the rest of the Stryker platoon / company still simply bumbles forward oblivious and piecemeal? . . . without stopping behind cover and deploying boots and javs to check out and sort out a threat they can't beat mounted up?

The "bumbling toward oblivion" doctrine appears to be standard CMSF practice at the moment for Strykers facing armor - and it's beyond frustrating. From the point of view of what buyers expect from CM and BFC, that is a broken game (as of 1.04) IMHO.

Further - say the AFV does smoke a Stryker. Part of the time lucky survivors pile out. Has anyone ever seen what is left of the squad exit with the only weapon that could counter the threat - a jav? Ever? I've never seen it happen - not once. Isn't there ever a chance they could grab a jav on the way out - or is that a silly notion given the obvious desire for "get the hell out"?

While my last point is a bit less well founded than the main point I certainly think 1.05 or 1.12 or 1.whatever needs to fix the hopeless Blue AI Stryker behavior in the face of an armored threat.

[undead reindeer cavalry]

it should just pop smoke. i don't like auto reversing.

auto reversing caused a lot of stupid situations in CMx1. e.g. IS-2 backs off from Panther, eventho IS-2 has upper hand over Panther even with its strange modelling of ammunition.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Cpl Steiner:

In RL, would it not be possible for one of the "air guard" soldiers to equip a Javelin and fire it from the open hatch? Surely this would be preferable to physically leaving the vehicle and becoming exposed to potential small arms fire whilst dealing with the threat?

In Real Life is the really possible?

Its an interesting idea, but the CLU and the missile might not actually physically fit up through the hatch. (but I am only guessing about that part) :confused: