realistic abrams vs t72

[mocdra]

I do believe that M1's should be more vulnerable to damage from multiple 125mm or ATGM hits on the front aspect

Do you mean the Damaging of the whole Armor Structure from the several Hits?

It is Realistic?

In wwII many Tiger Tanks took multiple Hits ( from 6 to 32) at the Frontal Turret and Hull Armor from t34 Tanks wothout any Penetration or Damage. The Same was this with the Front Armor of the King Tiger and Hunting Tiger. Somtimes the Rounds simply deflectet completely by the front Plate at distances of 150 m.

Ther are have in all Kind no Armor Structure Damage occured !.

There are videos of M1 armor tests floating around out there showing a clean penetration by a 100mm AT gun (fired point blank) into the crew compartment at a 90 degree angle to the turret side. It was a full-diameter hole with lots of daylight coming in (from the in-turret camera).

This seems to be West Propaganda andd a nearly Fake, to let known a potential Enemy that the M1 is weaker as in Reality !

The possibility of 'critical' hits is not incosiderable, there is a big shot trap between turret and top front hull, a large and vulnerable drivers hatch, etc. Every frontal shot should have at least a few percent chance of taking the M1 out completely

The Big Shot Trap is me well known.. This is One of the Achilles Points of the M1.

I believe the M1 would fare far worse if hit with a large volume of ATG/ATGM fire on the front than is currently modeled in the game. We have to assume that experienced or well-trained enemy gunners will target the obviously vulnerable areas if they are close enough

Sounds true... Enemy gunners will uses TOP ATTACK ATGMs or taregting the Hull Sides and upper sides, or optics and hatches.

Rhen about the Informnations over Modern Armor ..

Overall in the Armies ans Armoer Builders was cooked with water but not more.

Greetings

moc

[USTanker]

Okay folks, you wanted an M1 tanker to talk to and here I am. I left the Army in 2000 as a captain, all of my field time serving in M1A1 battalions.

Is the M1 series invulnerable? No. There are spots on the tank that are weaker than others.

Can a T72 destroy an M1? Yes.

Is it tough to kill an M1 from the front? Absolutely.

Is the M1 the uber tank? No, but it is the best I know of at present. Especially when discussing the M1A2 series.

What are your questions?

[mocdra]

Is the M1 series invulnerable? No. There are spots on the tank that are weaker than others.

Can a T72 destroy an M1? Yes.

Is it tough to kill an M1 from the front? Absolutely

No one has sayed invulnerable. The weak Spots are the Turret and Hull Roofs. The Hull Sides, then the Turret Rear and aft Turret Section ( Ammo Bunker)

Then the Shot Trap between upper Hull and lower Turret.

a T72 can abolutely destroy a M1 but only from the Rearsides or at the Hull Flanks(not Turret Flanks)or a lucky Hit between Turret and Hull or on the Gun Mantlet.

Its very difficult from the Distance to Kill a M1 from the Front .. !! At close Range (under 200 m ) is this easier because the vulnerable Spots are get easily targetet

The Best way to destroy a such Tank is to use a large Air to Ground Missile as the AGM65 series. Then the M1 is a big Puzzle with its Pieces sprayed over a large Area.. !

Greetings

Moc

[Madmatt]

Originally posted by Becket:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kieme(ITA):

Mushashy and Yamato were told to be invincible and unsinkable too

To be fair to Yamato, it did take rather a lot to sink it.

And even then, it could still be retrofitted to save Earth from the Gamilons. So there's that. </font>

[Becket]

Originally posted by Madmatt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Becket:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kieme(ITA):

Mushashy and Yamato were told to be invincible and unsinkable too

To be fair to Yamato, it did take rather a lot to sink it.

And even then, it could still be retrofitted to save Earth from the Gamilons. So there's that. </font>

[Madmatt]

Between me and you, I heard that Deslock was a gamey bastiche himself...

Now Khyron and Roy Fokker from Robotech, those two guys kicked respective ass... Well Khyron was 50 feet tall but I digress...

Madmatt

[Renaud]

A top attack ATGM (or any top hit for that matter) is going to almost certainly disable/destroy an M1 (or any other vehicle). There's only about 1" of steel across the turret top. If the topattack ATGM hit the front 30" of the turret top, maybe that would be soaked up since there's nothing there but armor.

Regarding Mavericks hitting the M1, it's been done in order to thoroughly destroy a disabled M1. However the M1 stayed intact and you couldn't really tell anything additional had hit it (the tank was already burned out).

Regarding large numbers of hits in a short period of time on the M1 front, the main danger would be cumulative damage to sensitive systems resulting in a combat ineffective M1. I don't believe cumulative damage to armor surfaces is significant or worth modeling within the scope of CMx2. Incidentally, I've read of no accounts of an M1 actually being destroyed from a front hit on a weak surface like the turret ring, mantlet or drivers hatch. In ODS/OIF situations in which the enemy was located within the frontal arc of the M1, the enemy rarely even got off a shot, much less scored a hit. Therefore we have no real life data on the effect of large numbers of frontal 125mm/ATGM hits to the M1. My opinion on this vulnerability is based solely on inspecting the tank armor from the inside/outside (the ring and drivers hatch are clearly very thin) and looking at the relative area of these vulnerable surfaces viewed from the frontal aspect. I believe a 125mm hit on the mantlet, while it might not destroy the tank, would disable the main gun & coax.

I don't regard this information as significant in the real world since the real power and success of the M1 rests on aquiring and destroying the enemy before they can shoot and score hits. These vulnerabilities if real would only be exposed in hypothetical scenarios (like CMx2).

One thing that would just about eliminate the chance of a hit on the turret ring or drivers hatch is firing from hull down behind a berm. This would be like fighting a hull down king tiger in CMx1...

[M1A1TC]

In a fight between T-72 and M1A1 Abrams I would take my Abrams any day of the week. I guess I am a little biased

[ August 11, 2007, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: M1A1TankCommander ]

[flamingknives]

There was a Challenger 2 allegedly penetrated by an RPG-29, and another damaged by a large under-belly IED.

In another instance, a CR2 was hit repeatedly by RPG-7, 14.5mm MG fire and even a Milan from all aspects, including turret sides and only lost external sensors (and fell in a ditch, from which it was later recovered under fire)