Stryker doctrine

[SgtMuhammed]

What type of doctrine are you beginning to develope for the use of your Strykers?

I will post my own later. I just want to see what people are doing with their new force mix.

[thewood]

I sned them in too close, they get blown up, I restart the scenario. Thats as far as I get.

[Guest Guest]

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[IsleOfMule]

Originally posted by thewood:

I sned them in too close, they get blown up, I restart the scenario. Thats as far as I get.

LOL I got one step further now: dismount infantry early to keep strickers safe, then reach ennemy contact with a lot of exhansted troops

Then, casualties are a bit high

After that, and RPGs are cleared, the strickers can patrol and support infantry with the MG and 40mm.

I plan to converge to the same as above without exhausted troops one day

[nathan S.J.]

depends on terrain

open fields usually requires me to use overwatch with a platoon of inf. with Jav missile launchers to counter tank threats, everyone else covers the open terrain in hunt, if threat is high and contact is likely, all squads are dismounted, but strykers lead the advance as they're invulnerable to small arms an usually the slat armor helps against the RPG threat.

Here's when things get really tricky.

Urban settings...

The problem here is this: slat armor protects the stryker from most RPGs but the slat armor doesnt cover the entire vehicle. thus, if an RPG team is in a position where it can shoot DOWNWARD and avoid the slat armor, even light RPGs can kill a stryker, so, the doctrine is this:

Infantry leads by using bounding movements, usually platoon watches over platoon and at the same time secure both sides of the road the strykers are to move down, and at the same time watching for IEDs.

But this is only when I need to get the strykers into more "favorable" terrain. otherwise, if its simply house to house battle, I don't even bring them into the city unless the Infantry is running low on ammo, cause if I carelessly get a stryker blown up, then I loose the ammo inside too, which is useful in drawn out battles.

if there is a break in cover within the city, then smoke from the strikers help provide concelement

[Foobar]

I need to figure out how to use infantry that way, mine always get slaughtered, and I am afraid to dismount the strykers

so far, in urban environment, I shoot up the buildings a bit, drive a stryker nose first into the edge of the building, pop smoke, dismount, and then hope for the best

[Wisbech_lad]

Well, on Veteran I just used strykers as simply as possible - driving slowly towards the destination with some overwatch, plastering suspect locations with area fire. Then only dismount for MOUT. Seemed to work very well, enemy units got spotted easily and surpressed fast

Then moved to Elite, and the same tactic in the same scenario (al amanah?) and ended up with 7 dead strykers very fast. The difference in spotting & C&C information sharing between the two modes makes a huge difference it seems. Oh well, back to the drawing board

[Michael Emrys]

Can you call in smoke from off-map batteries in this game?

Michael

[JonS]

No.

[Michael Emrys]

Bummer. No wonder the joes get slaughtered.

Michael

[Statisoris]

When attacking into an urban environment from that is surrounded by open terrain I tend to use my Strykers in conjuction with some heavy armor. For ever 8 Strykers, maybe 2-3 M1A1/M1A2s.

With a small example force of 1 Fire Support Stryker,1 command Stryker, 8 ICV Strykers and 3 M1A1/M1A2s here are the steps I normally take when assaulting a built up area from surrounding open terrain.

1) At a good distance from the urban area, I position my heavy armor "unbuttoned" around the urban area to cover as much of it as possible. At the same time I position my stryker platoons in generally oposite approach directions to the urban area but with as much cover/concealment as possible. If I happen to have a fire support vehicle or recon vehicle I will place these in overwatch/recon postions a good distance away from the urban area.

2)Next, when everyone is in position I order 2 of my subordinate tanks (buttoned) to advance slowly towards the Urban area with their leader (favorably) in a position where he can observe the advance. This slow advance is pretty much used to stir up trouble to get an idea where a portion of the enemy forces may be, especially ATGMs and RPGs, as these would be probably be used on the advancing tanks, hopefully with little effect.

3) Heavy armor continues to advance towards built up area until it is unsafe to proceed or until contact is made. When contact is made, the armor will engage with possible support from Strykers in favorable postions. If large amounts of enemy infantry are spotted on building roofs, I will have my fire support vehicle or other qualified unit call in some anti-personnel mortar support to clean off some of those roofs.

4) If no contact is made I will order 2 strykers to advance toward the urban area with the remaining platoon in favorable overwatch postions. These strykers will advance to the position of the nearest tank, stop, pop-smoke and order the mounted infantry to assault the nearest building with a favorable position. If the infantry assault goes well, the strykers in overwatch will advance as the empty strykers reverse back into overwatch postions.

5) After this point the dismounted infantry in perimeter positions, begin to slowly move into the built up area with sniper teams/platoon HQs in covering positions. Assualt teams advance and search each building. As areas are cleared, strykers will advance behind heavy armor to provide support and resupply.

6) As assault continues and most strykers move into the built up area, the command Stryker, fire support Stryker, 1-2 ICV strykers and some support infantry will remain outside of the urban area to catch any escaping enemy forces and to provide limited fire support for infantry.

Its a rough overview, but in general I follow this plan most of the time when assaulting with a mixed force into urban terrain.

[Wisbech_lad]

And if you don't have heavy armour?

[Calvin]

The problem here is...

Infantry are all but useless in an offensive capacity in this game.

WHY THIS CAN'T BE FIXED IS BEYOND ME.

No, not invulnerable infantry. But not mindless lambs to the slaughter either. Christ, an entire infantry squad spots enemy targets WORSE than a buttoned AFV.

[Crinius]

This might be usefull

https://atiam.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/9675-1/fm/3-21.21/toc.htm

[JonS]

Originally posted by Calvin:

an entire infantry squad spots enemy targets WORSE than a buttoned AFV.

AIUI, infantry do not come with IR or TI sensors installed as standard. Yet.

As to the rest of your post may I suggest "combined arms". It's a rather new concept, so you may not have heard of it, but it works quite well.

[Raptor 2101]

strykers are to vernuable to use them in an open ground battle

in urban terrain i first search for an hide-point, then for an entry point. the important thing is to go in fast. so i search for an building or another formation who can advanced without being shot from all sides. then advanced with alle vehicles i have, shoting at everything wich gives (visual)cover to the enemy. surely this noise wake up every enemy in the area but i never count on the weekness of an enemy. under this firesupport all stryker go in, an the teams disembark under smoke (one round advanced, pop smoke, wait 30 secs disembark, 30 later reverse go out) once the fireteams are in i hunting from house to house, Strykers everytime behind the virtual "FLOT" if one team comes under heavy fire, there are able to give immidate and massive firesupport without being exhoust for an RPG-shot

on open ground it depends on the expected enemy troops. mostly i hunt for an good overwatch position, disembark early and place JavTroops uphill an in more protection the stryker. if i'am forced to manoever in an open unknown and "covered terrain" (for the enemy, so i don't see where they come from) i try to use "hooping". two teams giving Javs-Overwatch while on other in a stryker advanced to the next overwath.

fast movements in an uncovered terrain, well isn't a funny szenario and without heavy tanks ore immidiate Air/Ary Support (incoming fire in under 2 minutes) suicide ...

[SgtMuhammed]

Originally posted by JonS:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Calvin:

an entire infantry squad spots enemy targets WORSE than a buttoned AFV.

AIUI, infantry do not come with IR or TI sensors installed as standard. Yet.

As to the rest of your post may I suggest "combined arms". It's a rather new concept, so you may not have heard of it, but it works quite well. </font>

[vulture]

Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq):

I would be inclined to agree with you if I hadn't seen one of my squads get mowed down by a T72 that was sitting in the middle of a road 10 meters away with no intervening terrain, smoke, or vehicles. The tank began firing at my guys as soon as they came around a wall but no one noticed the tank until the entire squad had rounded the corner, by which time half the squad was dead.

There is a definite systemic problem with LOS as it pertains to infantry. It would seem that any part of a squad can be spotted while only the center mass of the squad can spot. I noticed this during room clearing as soldiers are mowed down as they enter a room in a multipart building but they are unable to see the target until they stop moving as the center of mass is out of LOS. The result is that the squad just sits there and takes it while never returning fire at an enemy they can't seem to see.

So far 1:1 representation has expanded the ability of the squad to be seen and shot without expanding the ability to see and shoot back.

I've seen the inablity of infantry to spot tanks 10 feet away on the same road (with absolutely no obstacles in the way) as well. And in BigDork's AAR he posted here just after release, he sends a repulican guard tank hunter team to hunt a T-72 (red on red scenario) and when they come in to contact, the team doesn't spot the tank literally 10 feet away on the same stretch of road with no obstacles, while the tank soon picks them up and wipes them out.

Either their spotting is in dire need of improvement in such situations, or there is some exciting bug - I'm speculating that maybe once a target unit is spotted by a friendly unit, other friendly units can only pick up the spot through the CC network, can can't spot it themselves (maybe once a friendly spots the tank, the time it takes to diffuse through the CC net is worked out, and the tank hunter teams will learn about it on turn X, but due to a bug it is flagged as unspotted by that unit until turn X, which overrules their ability to spot it themselves). No idea if this speculation is even plausible, since I don't know how all this is coded, obviously.

And I can't be bothered to test it ATM

[Statisoris]

[Wisbech_Lad] If I dont have heavy armor I do something different, but I just woke up and havent had my coffee so I'm to lazy and grumpy to write about it at the moment.

[SgtMuhammed]

Biggest thing I have learned so far is patience. Even with heavy armor modern weapons are just too deadly to go rushing pell-mell about the map.

Assuming a Stryker company with no heavy armor assaulting into urban location:

Bulk of unit is left out of LOS while HQs, Snipers, and FO's are dismounted to peek forward. If no good terrain then troops dismount under vehicle smoke. (I am dying for arty smoke and can't believe they left it out.) Vehicles are pulled back from dismount teams to avoid undue attention and casualties from ATGM splash damage. The dismounts are primarily there to spot ATGMs, hopefully before they take out my Strykers. Doesn't always work out that way.

Concentrations of enemy infantry are hit with any arty support while an entry force of a couple squads backed by Mk19 or MGS Strykers pushes to viable foothold location. Normally at the edge of the map although terrain may place it anywhere. The key is to find an area that can only be fired upon by a small portion of the enemy. This area is also hit with arty to hopefully supress any RPG armed troops.

ICVs move in fast and drop troops behind smoke. While dismounts secure foothold the taxis pull back to avoit RPG attack and to provide either direct support or to seal flanks by preventing enemy movement. Normally further advances are made from this initial position but I always try to keep an eye out for areas that seem weakly defended for possible flank attacks. I always try to keep at least a squad in reserve.

Once a foothold is achieved it is largely a matter of advancing my infantry with Strykers providing overwatch and fire support. I try not to push the Strykers too close to the FLOT unless a squad is pinned down and needs to be rescued. In such cases I will bring up Strykers to support by close in direct fire. Unfortunately this can easily result in the loss of the Stryker but usually it gives the squad enough of a boost to be able to complete their mission.

If terrain is too open then I try to keep everyone back as far as possible and advance by stages to bring the target in fire range while hopefully remaining out of range of enemy supporting fire. Entry team is dispatched as normal but only after a prolonged longrange saturation of the area if possible. If not then the entry point and surrounding positions are blasted with as much firepower as possible and troops are moved in as rapidly as possible using whatever terrain and smoke are available. Usually pretty costly as I prefer more methodical tactics. Open terrain with no heavy support is generally death for an all Stryker force.

General Maxims:

Speed is life. Poking around with Strykers will generally just get them killed. Know where you want to go and get there fast.

Firepower saves. Get every gun you can firing. If one has no target give it one. Without smoke the only way to advance your infantry is under a curtain of lead.

Patience. If it is going to take 10 minutes for your arty to come in then wait 10 minutes. Unless under some major time constraint it is always better to wait and make full use of your assets. It does you no good to have a bunch of left over arty but not be able to take the objective because you have run out of infantry.

God bless the M1. Even if it dies it usually lives long enough to tell you where the REALLY bad guys are and allow you to act accordingly.

I generally find the MGS to be somewhat useless because of its small ammo load and quirky fire routines. Even in overwatch they rarely seem to fire unless I give them a specific target.

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[SgtMuhammed]

Adam,

Even under hunt they display the behavior I am seeing. In Normal Dude's airfield mission I lost a couple squads as they blithely hunted into the middle of a section of building filled with a Syrian infatnry squad. No attempt to return fire or pull back they just slowly moved forward with weapons at the ready. It was only when what was left of the squad reached the middle of the room that they began to even take cover.

In any case no one returned fire or seemed to have any idea that they were surrounded by enemy troops. I could see the enemy when no one was selected but they were invisible when the squad under attack was selected even though they were the only squad that could have had LOS to the enemy.

I can accept losses if my tactics are bad but if you do it right and your units repeatedly act like they are brain dead then something is wrong.

[JasonC]

sgtgoody - maybe the reason they can't see the squad is the particular friendlies who saw them got shot. That is, t0 nobody sees, t1 enemy and 2 guys see, t2 enemy KOs the 2 guys that can see, nobody left alive who can see, t3... go to t0.

The problem would then be the tac AI not knowing enough to react to things happening to the whole unit. If you see the man ahead of you get shot, you don't have to see the man who shot him to know not to step where he stepped.

[SgtMuhammed]

I think that the current system has different routines for when you can be seen and when you can see. I don't think the squad can see something till the center of mass can see it but it can be seen as long as one of the soldiers is in view.

Still what you say makes sense as well. Either way it is something that needs to be addressed.

[pickeral]

if covering open ground on a advance and you have no tanks.i haul ass right up to towns edge and start deploying javelin teams on rooftops for armor shots.