Billy Riley Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I love this game, I really do, but I'mhaving a hard time dealing with the sighting implementation. It seems not to work or I don't understand it. If I could give you a couple of examples, it may help get my point across... I was playing one of the scenarios and I had no units selected. I then saw an enemy vehicle driving across the map, so I selected my unit to take it out. Now this units "apparently" had clear line of sight to it, and yet could not see it...and the Stryker was "unbuttoned". That's the first issue...but also, with this same problem, it then takes quite some time to find the actual unit that has the line of sight to the enemy unit. The second thing is much more annoying. Not being able to see my own units. My main gripe with this is that I cannot move my units individually because most of the time I can't see where my other units are....so I am having to rally "overly" micro manage my units, because once I highlight and move each unit, sometimes I have to re-highlight a unit to see where I have moved it to in order to move my other units and not have them bunched up. Again, this can happen when my units are unbuttoned. I don't know if there is something I can do about these issues that I've missed. I mean, I want FoW on, but I want to see my own units. I think, as a stryker commander, I might have a little bit of knowledge as to where my other units are. Especially when I am on a flat pice of desert...the problems I am talking about here aren't in built up areas, where I could accept that a bit of confusion could creep in...these issues are in wide open desert areas. So, any ideas? Any keys I can use to see what units have spotted what enemy? Any way I can turn off the friendly FoW but keep enemy FoW on? Thx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupierLEON Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 1.: click on the enemy unit to see who sees it. 2.: play in veteran mode to allways see your own units. Leon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 19, 2008 Author Share Posted March 19, 2008 That's great...thx trouperLEON. After I posted, I was thinking about it and it made sense that if I click on the enemy unit, I would be able to see what units have LOS to it. I think I had been told about Veteran mode before...just forgot about it. What else does Veteran mode "lose" over Elite? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupierLEON Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I don't remember the details, but it's in the manual . Leon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 19, 2008 Author Share Posted March 19, 2008 ok thx (I hate the manual...I mean, it's a great manual, but PDFs give me a headache! and being Scottish I'm too tight to print it out!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupierLEON Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Some things may have changed by patches... but here you go: Basic Training This is the easiest setting to play the game. The following special rules apply: - Friendly units are always spotted - Spotting information is instantly shared among teams (aka “Borg Spotting”) - Troops suffer slightly fewer casualties and are less likely to panic - Treating wounded soldiers (“buddy aid”) is extremely fast - Artillery and air support arrives extremely fast - Enemy units are always fully identified once spotted - The life/death status of enemy vehicles is immediately displayed. Veteran Most people familiar with the game system will prefer this setting. It’s a fair balance between realism and fun, not burdening the player with unnecessary details or waiting times. The following special rules apply: - Friendly units are always spotted - Enemies are not always immediately identified once spotted and can appear as generic “Enemy contacts” (but less often than at Elite level) - Spotting information is distributed among teams using the standard Command & Control rules - Treating wounded soldiers is faster than in real life - Artillery and air support arrives faster than in real life - The life/death status of enemy vehicles is hidden for a while until the crew bails out or the vehicle is burning Elite The most difficult setting, it introduces a number of realistic restrictions on what the player can do and when. While realistic, these features also require more effort and attention from the player during the game, something that not everybody might consider fun. So we made it an optional setting for hardcore wargamers. - Friendly units need to be spotted just like enemy units. If you have a friendly unit not in line of sight or contact with another friendly unit, then the only way to find this unit is by either re-establishing contact with another of your units or by clicking through the chain of command in the game interface, jumping from unit to unit. - Enemies often need to be identified and until then appear as generic “Enemy contacts” - Treating wounded soldiers takes a realistic amount of time - Artillery and air support take a realistic amount of time before arriving - Commands may not be issued when the game is paused copyright by battlefront (I hope thats ok?) Leon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 I got it in the manual...thx for taking the time. But I need to resurrect this, because after playing some more, I am still not being able to identify which units can see an enemy unit. I deselect so I have no unit selected and I see an enemy vehicle, so I select the enemy vehicle and some of my units have light icons and some have dark icons. I presume the ones with "lighter" coloured icons have LoS...so I highlight one of those units and the enemy unit disappears. Same with the darker coloured units. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong tbh, but I'm finding the spotting in the game rather frustrating. I'm not laying the blame solely at the feet of the game...it's probably more to do with my lack of understanding of how it works, but it isn't as intuitive as Combat Mission where you could highlight a unit and you would have coloured lines showing who were threats and who had spotted you. I'll give the manual another look through tonight. I have a similar problem in Theatre of War...spotting seems to be an issue in that game also. I know it's a different game, but just pointing out this isn't the only game I'm having problems playing effectively because of spotting (or my lack of understanding of the mechanics of spotting) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A1TC Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I too miss the targeting lines 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G B Scurlock Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I'll chime in. I think it has to do with communication and who has it with their respective HQs and sister units. You will see that some of the units carry a small computer device that allows them to indicate where certain enemy units have been spotted for their comrads to see. The unit that lights up when you click the enemy icon may have indication where that enenmy unit is but may not have line of sight or line of fire. Anyway thats what I figure. Read the section in the manual about COMMS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I had trouble just last night along this line. Enemy unit appeared on the distant hill but i had the worst time tracking down the units that had actual LOS on the guy. If you think about that for a bit its not all that inappropriate in a fog-of-war way. Word gets passed around that there's a *threat* of some sort over the next hill. It wouldn't always be easy to trace that rumor to its source. Having to struggle (slightly) to get a firm grip on incoming intel during an engagement seems to be an appropritate FOW artifact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'Rogers Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Do you have the latest patch? In one of the earlier patches I think a problem was that an enemy unit selected would highlight all units that could theoretically see it. I thought that was fixed but I could be wrong. The elimination of borg spotting certainly made LOS a whole different issue. You use to never know a unit could be walking nearby one of yours if it hadn't been spotted. Now you might have an idea it is there but the men on the ground don't. It certainly seems like information passes slower through CoC than I (and many others) feel like it would. But players tend to find things going on much slower in a sim than in real life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topo Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 So my highlighted unit when I select an enemy unit are those that "may" have LOS, but perhaps still do not have? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 It depends on whether you have downloaded and installed the 1.07 patch? Depending on your answer to that question, the answers we can provide will vary. So it would be useful if you could answer the question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Because of the many patches the manual is somewhat dated. Since I don't play anything other than elite FOW I can only really comment on that. - Friendly units need to be spotted just like enemy units. If you have a friendly unit not in line of sight or contact with another friendly unit, then the only way to find this unit is by either re-establishing contact with another of your units or by clicking through the chain of command in the game interface, jumping from unit to unit. Not exactly. If you select no units then you will see all your units. When you select a unit you see only what that unit sees. One effect of this is that it builds in a few seconds of delay to your command loop because you have to search for the right unit. Not an unrealistic situation. - Treating wounded soldiers takes a realistic amount of time Not even close. In actual combat if you lose a guy you can lose a significant number of other guys to care for him and treating a wound that puts a man down normally takes much longer than a minute or two. This is especially true for Western forces who often place treatment of casualties above even mission accomplishment. - Artillery and air support take a realistic amount of time before arriving Not sure about the exact times but it feels right. I notice that in both real life and CMSF arty seems to most often arive just after what you need hit has left the area. - Commands may not be issued when the game is paused This applies only to RT mode and actually doesn't even apply there anymore. You can give orders while paused. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 G B Scurlock Although the point is LoS...my problem is more to do with how the user is meant to determine who has LoS to an enemy unit and who does not. I'm glad CM:SF uses comms to determine who knows of an enemy and who does not, but from a "gameplay" perspective, it is proving frustrating to determine who has LoS when an enemy unit decides to show itself. MikeyD I had trouble just last night along this line. Enemy unit appeared on the distant hill but i had the worst time tracking down the units that had actual LOS on the guy. If you think about that for a bit its not all that inappropriate in a fog-of-war way. Word gets passed around that there's a *threat* of some sort over the next hill. It wouldn't always be easy to trace that rumor to its source. Having to struggle (slightly) to get a firm grip on incoming intel during an engagement seems to be an appropritate FOW artifact. That sounds fine. Again, I have no problem with Fog of War or limited LoS and I do not miss the so called Borg sighting...but the point stands that it's is frustrating, as you pointed out in your post, that it takes an AGE to find the unit which has LoS. When an enemy unit is identified....a piece of my force has LoS...my problem is, I can't tell which one. From a gameplay perspective, that's just annoying. From a "commander" perspective, FoW has nothing to do with it...because the unit which has spotted the enemy would have identified themselves to me and requested action...only in this game, I can't tell them what action to take, because they apparently do not know SOP and decided to ALWAYS leave out the vital piece of info that is the spotting units ID. C'Rogers and gibsonm I have patch 1.07 Basically the issue is LoS...but more than that it's the fact that from a gameplay perspective, it's rather infuriating trying to find out who has LoS. Some say it's realistic. I don't think so...as I said above, SOP is identifying yourself when reporting contact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melnibone Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Originally posted by Billy Riley: Although the point is LoS...my problem is more to do with how the user is meant to determine who has LoS to an enemy unit and who does not.From the Readme file (1.06 section): "when an enemy unit is selected, the icons of friendly units that do not currently spot that enemy are darkened. This way it's easy to tell which of your units spots a given enemy." That seems to work OK for me playing on Veteran. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Well it doesn't here. I had no units selected and an enemy vehicle showed. I highlighted the enemy vehicle and saw dark shaded icons and light shaded icons. Clicking on ANY ONE of the light shaded icons, each time (from what I can remember), the enemy vhicle disappeared and became a ? So whilst I'm glad it works for you, it doesn't seem to here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Well, I can't remember what level I'm on...perhaps it's to do with Elite/Veteran/Whatever. I'll start a new game on Veteran and see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 It appears I was playing under Elite level and that the sighting works as some people stated here under Veteran. My apologies and thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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