So where is the patch

[handihoc]

Forget all that, Card, the real issue is, Who the hell was your granpa?

['Card]

My Grampa was a ramblin' man. He was born in the backseat of a Greyhound bus, rollin' down Highway 41.

[Battlefront.com]

BigDuke6,

I think you guys are dead wrong on the pathfinding issue, at least sometimes.

Uhm... how many different ways do I need to put this before you will grasp what should be a pretty simple concept. I'll break it down for you:

1. Pathfinding is a very tricky thing and it is generally impossible to have a complex environment (i.e. realistic, not gamey) produce 100% expected results 100% of the time.

2. Version 1.04's pathfinding is pretty good, overall. Generally units do what they are told to do.

3. There are bugs in v1.04 that are unacceptable and lead to various infantry and vehicle problems.

4. We have fixed all the bugs we could identify for v1.05.

5. We can not guarantee that 100% of the bugs have been identified and fixed as of v1.05. We can guarantee that we will fix any identified bugs in subsequent releases as those bugs are identified.

6. We can never guarantee that people will always see, all the time, the behavior they expect. Sometimes this may even be due to the unrealistic expectations of what a particular unit is capable of doing and not liking the ramifications.

So... are you going to kick up a fuss again when for the nth time, or are you going to do the sensible thing and wait for the v1.05 patch to see if you are getting all worked up about nothing?

Steve

[ December 14, 2007, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ]

[Bigduke6]

Steve,

Jeez, talk about a sore spot. Sorry about that. But I did preface my remarks by saying how great BFI was.

Anyway, not for the nth time. For the record, I am here making my third or fourth post ever on CMSF, based on actually playing the game. I didn't get my hands on a copy until November. You are, therefore, probably confusing me with some other whiner.

For reference, I'm the Forumite complaining all the time about 76mm penetration values and cowering Stalins, remember?

Strykers sometimes unable to drive 300 m. down a city four-lane without taking a side trip to a trash-filled courtyard - that's pretty new gripe territory for me, and frankly I don't get too worked up about Strykers. It's not like I think they're cool or anything.

In any case, I feel better now, I've exercised my constitutional right, I've passed my concern based on my hands on experience to BFI, and apparently irritated 'Card in the bargain, so all in all a job well done.

So now yes I will wait patiently for the 1.05 patch, with the hope that driving up an undefended street in a straight line does not, for a CMSF Stryker, fall into the semantic category of "unrealistic expectations of what a particular unit is capable of doing and not liking the ramifications"

And if the 1.05 Stryker does indeed drive up the city street without stopping for felafel, praise the game and BFI fulsomely to the high heavens, oh yes I will.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

1. Pathfinding is a very tricky thing and it is generally impossible to have a complex environment (i.e. realistic, not gamey) produce 100% expected results 100% of the time.

2. Version 1.04's pathfinding is pretty good, overall. Generally units do what they are told to do

Yeah, but you invoke that less than perfect pathfinding much more often than you should. My tests have clearly shown that even in non-obstacle, non-collision, single-vehicle, featureless terrain situations you take the user-supplied path, say "screw this" and then have your pathfinding code re-write the path.

Here's the proper code fix.

Current </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">if (i_dont_like_users_path()) {

rewrite_path();

}</pre>

[GSX]

SO the patch is downloading onto my HD right now. We shall see......

I must say though that for a 6 month old game the list of fixes seems somewhat embarrassing.

Let you all know soon as I plan to re-install the game to test it out again.

[Battlefront.com]

BigDuke6,

Jeez, talk about a sore spot. Sorry about that.

Not a sore spot per se... I just thought that I answered your concerns a couple of times and they didn't seem to be doing much good

In any case, I feel better now, I've exercised my constitutional right,

Bzzzzt... you are off US soil so you no longer have any Constitutional rights. If you don't like that you can appeal it in US court. Oh wait, nope... you can't do that either. Sorry 'bout that!

Redwolf,

I also had to laugh at the "all bugs we could identify" remark. Is that why you refuse to have any kind of formal bug report collection from users?

What difference would that make? Oh wait, I remember... the idea of having hundreds of people reporting the same exact bug or reporting thousands of things that aren't really bugs, and expecting us to wade through them to find the gems amongst the turds. Now why was it that I forgot all about that horrid suggestion? Hmmm... can't think of it off the top of my head

What I said is the truth. Everything that we found we fixed. This included things found by non-tester end users. If we didn't find it we didn't fix it. I would think that would be fairly obvious. But if you're a glass-half-full kinda guy, I guess I can see how you could read something negative into my comment. Each to his own I suppose.

Steve

[DaveDash]

For those of you bitching about pathfinding in this game, I suggest you go back to the days of old, install Command and Conquer, and look where your harvester goes to get back to your base.

After that, you'll find CM:SF pathfinding a breath of fresh air.

[PeterLorre86]

Harvesters driving through enemy bases was a feature. They where acting as recon so you could see the AI's clogged base.

You just dont get it.

[Battlefront.com]

Heh... harvesters going crazy... oh how I remember that one! Bad pathing plagued the C&C and WC games for several versions. Lost interest in them after Red Alert and WCII. IF you wanted to do the ultimate strategy in C&C (i.e. Tank Rush) you had to babysit your horde or they would go all over the f'n place. In fact, the best base defenses were terrain. Figure out where the enemy was coming from, find some terrain features that would likely split up the enemy forces rushing you, and build your base to take advantage. Not that it really worked all that well since a properly executed Tank Rush could overcome any obstacle. And I wonder why I lost interest in C&C!

Seriously though, pathing is difficult to get right even in the Rocks, Paper, Scissors type games. For us it's far more challenging than that. Of course, if you guys want perfect pathing I'm sure we could dumb down the game enough to achieve it! Plus, we could include base building, power ups, and hit points, all of which are so much easier for us to work with. Hmmm... this is actually starting to sound good

Steve

[DaveDash]

I equate the complexity of CM:SF more to Operation Flashpoint, and the AI pathfinding I find is vastly inferior to CM:SF, even ater years of patching.

Squad Member 3KM back "Where are you!?"

Still, you didn't play OFP for the AI.

[Bigduke6]

Bzzzzt... you are off US soil so you no longer have any Constitutional rights. If you don't like that you can appeal it in US court. Oh wait, nope... you can't do that either. Sorry 'bout that!

Tell me about it. It is no fun to be an American traveling abroad these days. Don't even get me started on the purchasing power of the dollar.

Still, just in case the NSA loyalty bot happens to be scanning this, there is always this increasingly litte-known remark sourced to a dead white man:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are endowed with certain inalienable rights, and that among these rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Thanks for the patch BTW, I'll check it out shortly. And if my Stryker can drive successfully in a straight line down a city road, you will hear of it.

[Hawk66]

is the Paradox 1.05 version of the patch next week available?

Thanks.

[Battlefront]

Hawk66,

Yes the Paradox version should be available early next week.

[Battlefront.com]

BigDuke6,

Tell me about it. It is no fun to be an American traveling abroad these days. Don't even get me started on the purchasing power of the dollar.

Me either. Let's see... I like purchasing uniforms from abroad... now they are 50% more expensive. Great. I like going to Quebec and party at a discount. Ooops... now a $5 CDN beer is $5.10. Sheesh, I could just stay home and buy the same beer for $4. Argh.

Fortunately some of our retail contracts are specified in Euros. We're not upset about that

Steve

[M1A1TC]

Steve

Great job on the patch. Some things I was looking for are not there at all, but I hope will be some day