Survey: What would you choose for CMx2?

[Sergei]

The Greatest War imaginable: Sino-Soviet war 1969.

[Michael Dorosh]

Ok, all of the posts so far have betrayed no understanding of how the new CMX2 system will work, as explained by Steve in earlier threads. CMX2 games/modules will not cover entire wars.

They will not cover entire theatres.

They will not cover entire campaigns.

They may not even cover entire battles (ie you might have a Title on the Battle of the Bulge but individual Modules on Bastogne, Patton's counter-attack, etc.).

Basically, AIUI, you will see a focus on a limited set of forces - a formation or two. Combat will still be at the company level; campaigns will happen within a regiment, brigade, division, corps.

So with that in mind, a more realistic set of druthers would be:

a) The fighting at Tula in autumn 1941 - Großdeutschland and a couple of panzer divisions take on a Soviet tank corps. The overall forces seemed to have some parity and it was one of the first times T-34s faced German armour.

South Beveland - 2nd Canadian Infantry Division fighting against Battle Group Chill at the neck of the South Beveland peninsula, and down towards Walcheren Island. Fairly balanced forces and interesting though not spectacular terrain.

c) The Rhineland - US, British and Canadian forces all fight through mud, water and mines to clear the last forces west of the Rhine. Focus on one of the Allied divisions. The ones I am most familiar with experienced hard fighting and there would be much room for balanced fights.

The "Spanish Civil War" and "Battle of Kursk" stuff is meaningless fantasy. If we're really going to go through this, then pick a particular aspect and state why it is of interest to you or why you think it would make a good subject.

For example, out of the Rhineland, 2nd Canadian Division comes to mind:

Focus on the 2nd Division and you have Riley's Road, the Hochwald, Xanten, German Sturmtigers, Panzer Lehr Division, I think the Winhund Division too. Clearly defined campaign objective - push the Germans back across the Rhine.

There will not be any CMX2 title called "The Great Patriot War Construction Kit with every terrain bit, vehicle, troop type, weapon, and condition of weather in existence from Berlin to Vladivostok".

So all you Kursk fellows - which particular formation is most interesting to you?

Spanish Civil War - which battle?

Cold War - which nationality? I'd like to see East Germans vs. Canadians, using the book First Clash as a guide.

[ May 17, 2007, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Parker]

1. Survivors vs. Zombies

2. Survivors vs. new style Fast Zombies

3. WW II in the Pacific/Malaya/Burma.

[J Ruddy]

Oh geez, not this again!

Something historical or hysterical...

Space Lobsters versus the Third Reich!

[Redwolf]

We already know we won't get full-theater CMs anymore, campaign only.

My guess for order of games:

</font>

• 1: ETO: Normandy or Bulge (need to feed the U.S. crowd)</font>
• 2: Eastern Front: Barbarossa, Kursk or Berlin</font>
• 3: France 1940 or some ETO again, possibly Market Garden</font>
• 4: BFC works on CMx3, but this time they give the engine to other people to fill in new campaigns, who will do:</font>
• 5: some EF</font>
• 6: "Anthology" with all games in one (hope this one works out)</font>

Personally I'm a Normandy slut. Here's my order of games that I would like to see:
</font>

• Normandy</font>
• Market Garden</font>
• Kursk</font>
• Arab Israeli 1967+1973</font>

[MikeyD]

I'm reminded of those modeling forums where people demand ... DEMAND! ... kits of some of the most obscure armor you can imagine. Eventually some company out of Singapore complies - then nobody buys the kit.

I suspect CM:Whiskey Rebellion would be a BIIIIGGG hit!

[Sequoia]

Originally posted by Redwolf:

We already know we won't get full-theater CMs anymore, campaign only.

My guess for order of games:

</font>

• 1: ETO: Normandy or Bulge (need to feed the U.S. crowd)</font>
• 2: Eastern Front: Barbarossa, Kursk or Berlin</font>
• 3: France 1940 or some ETO again, possibly Market Garden</font>
• 4: BFC works on CMx3, but this time they give the engine to other people to fill in new campaigns, who will do:</font>
• 5: some EF</font>
• 6: "Anthology" with all games in one (hope this one works out)</font>

Personally I'm a Normandy slut. Here's my order of games that I would like to see:
</font>

• Normandy</font>
• Market Garden</font>
• Kursk</font>
• Arab Israeli 1967+1973</font>

We know the second game will be Normandy/France summer 1944, with the initial release containing U.S Army vs. Wehrmacht. First module will probably contain Brits+Canadians and the SS.

Second module my guess is Airborne forces both sides (yes I know the German airborne were just elite infantry by then).

Steve once said the only two of first five games will be WWII and he said Eastern Front is out for marketing reasons at the present. I don't think they've decided themselves what the third game will be. It be interesting to see if the third game is Pre-twentieth century. Horses at last!

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Sequoia:

We know the second game will be Normandy/France summer 1944, with the initial release containing U.S Army vs. Wehrmacht. First module will probably contain Brits+Canadians and the SS.

Second module my guess is Airborne forces both sides (yes I know the German airborne were just elite infantry by then).

Steve once said the only two of first five games will be WWII and he said Eastern Front is out for marketing reasons at the present. I don't think they've decided themselves what the third game will be. It be interesting to see if the third game is Pre-twentieth century. Horses at last!

I don't think it is possible to have the first game the Western part of Normandy and the second game the Eastern part of Normandy. What would be cool is if BFC made it "modable enough" such as allowing us to do the gruntwork of texturing vehicles and uniforms for the Brits and SS (game ships without those textures), but provides the raw 3D models.

Likewise, you can make a Airborne game.

As far as I followed Steve did bash the Eastern Front and most wargamers already know that it is a bad place from a commercial standpoint. However, at some point you have to do it because you run out of Western campaigns. I don't think anyone in the biggest markets (U.S., Britain, Germany) cares about France 1940 any more than the Eastern Front. Certainly less.

Overall, it sounds like an Arab-Israeli module might be in, in particular since a lot of work for terrain and Arab gear can be shared with SF.

A "Cold War Hot" scenario I dunno, that's a lot of work for a pretty obscure theater. It works for TacOps, though.

[Michael Dorosh]

You're still talking in wildly vague generalities. Of course you make them sound uninteresting.

France 1940 sounds dull.

Crossing the Meuse, the Großdeutschland fighting French armour at Stonne, the Highlanders at St. Valery, or the SS vs. the British at Wormhoudt sound much more interesting.

Oddly enough, that's the focus the modules will likely take, or at the very least, individual campaigns in those modules.

That's the focus this conversation should take, then.

506th Parachute Infantry Regiment vs. German paratroopers at Carentan? Sign me up.

1st Canadian Parachute Battalion at the Merville Battery on D-Day? Sign me up.

Queen's Own Rifles of Canada with the Fort Garry Horse in support at Bernieres-sur-Mer against the 716th Infantry? Sign me up.

Leaping Horsemen at the Red October Ordnance Plant in Stalingrad? Sign me up.

7th Cavalry Regiment at Landing Zone X-Ray? Sign me up. Unless I have to play the NVA. Actually, maybe let's pass on that, though helicopters in CM would be cool.

Kursk? Doesn't mean a thing to me.

Honestly, most of the responses have simply indicated a preference for uniform styles or sound files. Pretty much the way these types of threads have always gone.

So why don't we just post our favourite colours and be done with it?

The eastern end of the Normandy bridgehead will be very distinct from the west, aside from just the uniforms.

On the British end, you had more German armour, but look at the armour/infantry mix in the CW formations. The number of Piats and Vickers guns were different than the number of Bazookas and .30 cal MMGs on the American front. The British had 17-pounder Shermans that were substantially better than their 76mm counterparts on the American front. The terrain was different; more bocage on the American front, and the US seem to have widely employed the Culin hedgerow device.

These are all good reasons to express a desire to see them portrayed in CM.

Thinking that James Coburn was a hottie in Cross of Iron is slightly less convincing as a case for inclusion in Combat Mission.

To further my own examples - crossing the Meuse sees the employment of rubber assault boats (would be great to see CM get that right) and the personal leadership of Rommel.

At Stonne, you have massed armour assaults by some unique French vehicles versus a highly elite but inexperienced German infantry regiment. Again, this is something unique and worthy of a title on its own.

Each title should offer something unique to the pantheon beyond just funny voice files and different coloured uniforms.

Here's another example - a title devoted to Nijmegen, both the fighting in the city in September 1944 with the British and the Americans, and the river assault. You would therefore need special "rules" to cover leadership issues between allied forces - should British tanks be able to operate freely with American infantry? And you would have another great vehicle for rubber assault boats. And a new terrain type we haven't seen, mainly the large, steel and concrete suspension bridge. Plus you could model the Valkof. I'd like to see unique buildings modelled in each title - though some would probably be outside of CM's scale (a company level game kind of makes the Grain Elevator in Stalingrad or the Abbey at Monte Cassino or the Reichstag in Berlin a bit out of reach).

[ May 17, 2007, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Keke]

Dorosh vs. the universe would be cool.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Keke:

Dorosh vs. the universe would be cool.

That would be another case of the forum being the real game and the CD merely being the advertisement for it.

[Misereor]

1. NATO/WAPA mid-80's. (Red Storm Rising.)

2. Vietnam. (We were soldiers once - and young.)

3. WW2 Pacific. (What's not to love about Guadalcanal?)