My last scenario was perfect, and that's what's driving me crazy!

[thewood]

I just did a tiny QB with US Armor against Syrian Infantry on the hilly map. I played WEGO Hotseat because I was checking out some LOS issues I saw. With me only giving some general orders, the scenario played out perfectly. TACAI reactions were good, pathfinding was very good, ambushes worked, LOS worked, self preservation worked with the M1s, etc.

About 1 in 4 QBs turn out this way. That's why I keep playing and harping on the bugs. Somewhere beyond all this angst on the board is a great tactical game. It shows up once in a while, and then disappears again. Here's hoping BFC can put it all right.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

“Somewhere beyond all this angst on the board is a great tactical game.”

Exactly… that is what I have been saying from the start . CMX2 is all hoped for.

The problem is that it was sent out the door unfinished. Steve has explained why and BFC have taken a huge knock as a result. But the future for CM and tactical wargame lovers is bright, very bright…. .

All good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[thewood]

Now I'll spend the next 6 hours trying to recreate a QB that runs as good (edit: or is it "as well", I never get that right).

[panzermartin]

I have the suspicion that most bugs occur as the size of battles increases. Is it possible that TacAi and Los/Lof are messed up as system resources are chewed up and are unable to properly keep track of everything?

[thewood]

You know, now that I look back, that correlation may be correct. It also may be that I am more capable of managing smaller forces.

[panzermartin]

In "strength and faith"(nice map), a considerably heavy scenario for instance I have noticed numerous bugs:

-Infantry squad spotting a tank only when 10m close. When I walked them 20m away the tank become a "?". Once I moved them closer the tank reappeared. At the same time 100m away another squad was perfectly able to keep an eye on the tank all this period even thought the tank was behind a wall. The same tank could not be spotted by another unbuttoned T72 8m close, no matter what I did. Cover/arc/face everything.

It stood there for minutes without noticing another tank under his nose. The enemy tank was completely idle, neither moving/spotting anything(was undamaged)

-LOS tool blocked on perfectly straight and flat streets.

-On the same map I ordered a BMP to move down an empty road. Instead it went through a wall a building a second building another wall and exited to the back street on the other side of the building block. It was WEIRD. I hesitated to touch it again, I was terrified from what I saw

I havent noticed so many abnormalities in smaller scenarios. That one is lagging so it could be the system bogging down and screwing the game calculations. Time is set to dawn/dusk, can this make things more complicated in Los/Lof?

[molotov_billy]

panzermartin,

I noticed the same type of stuff in "Strength and Faith." Really poor pathfinding. Could not get BMP's to move down a perfectly clear, straight road. They preferred to take tours around half the city, and of course got shot up if I wasn't babysitting them.

[panzermartin]

Thats strange that bugs can be scenario related. The particular map is filled with walls everywhere. Almost all the streets are surrounded by walls. Since walls are buggy maybe they have an invisible effect on nearby streets as well, blocking LOS and paths the same way they have invisible holes?

[thewood]

I am really begining to think the majority of problems might be how a map was built. Steve mentioned on one map that a bug might exist that never really removed objects that were deleted. Maybe that is why these problems are showing up on certain maps.

I wonder if I rebuild the strength and faith map, the problems go away. Or maybe it is the size of the scenario that is the issue.

Anyway, It is all conjecture until BFC ways in on what the heck is going on. btw, I like to conjecture after a frustrating QB experience.

[thelmia]

Now THAT'S an interesting idea. Maybe the lag I'm getting is related to custom scenarios...

Some crashes do seem scenario related, although they always crash for some people but not for others.

There's a bug here, somewhere.

[panzermartin]

Well I removed the walls from some parts of the map in "Strength and Faith" and LOS problems were almost null. No blocked los in the middle of the streets, much more normal spotting. Even pathfinding seemed better. It seems like walls are causing much more trouble than just shooting through them.

[Guest]

Weird. So you took out the walls... and it fixed LOS / pathing problems elsewhere?

Man, seriously, if that's the case I've gotta go strip the walls out of my maps.

[L.Tankersley]

Originally posted by kipanderson:

The problem is that it was sent out the door unfinished. Steve has explained why and BFC have taken a huge knock as a result. But the future for CM and tactical wargame lovers is bright, very bright….

Hi, Kip!

Based on my thus-far limited exposure to CMSF, I guess I would agree that it is a potential diamond-in-the-rough. But it's still pretty rough.

Not having been following the forums closely, I haven't seen the statement/explanation you reference above. Can you point me to it to assuage my curiosity?

Regards,

[rleete]

Originally posted by kipanderson:

Exactly… that is what I have been saying from the start . CMX2 is all hoped for.

Kip enjoying a modern day setting? Who would have believed it?

[SgtMuhammed]

I just had one of those, "Why the hell can't they do that all the time!?" moments.

Playing Normaldude's airfield scenario, I ordered a squad to enter a building using a quick command. The squad ran across the street and did a proper stack at the corner away from the windows and then entered the doorway. They entered the room and rapidly cleared it, sustaining no losses. I was pleasantly surprised so I decided to keep a close eye on the rest of my squads during movement so I could see if they were all doing this. Unfortunately they weren't.

Other squads who were ordered to enter buildings seemed to make it a point to expose themselves to as much fire as possible. They seemed to pick a rally point about 5 meters from the door, in the middle of the street and then sprint from there into the doorway.

On the whole I am getting much better with these digital troops but sometimes they make me want to drop them for 50 right in the middle of a fight. I guess in that respect this game is quite realistic.

One other question: Do the new 203 rounds have tracers? I don't remember them having them but they do in the game. Or is that just a visual aid?

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq):

Playing Normaldude's airfield scenario, I ordered a squad to enter a building using a quick command. The squad ran across the street and did a proper stack at the corner away from the windows and then entered the doorway. They entered the room and rapidly cleared it, sustaining no losses. I was pleasantly surprised so I decided to keep a close eye on the rest of my squads during movement so I could see if they were all doing this. Unfortunately they weren't.

If walls in a map can cause problems, maybe the way buildings are positioned can too? Having played around with the editor, I've noticed that you can put buildings on the map exactly over a square or half over one square and half over another. Maybe if it's half over a square the squad will stack up on the "half-square" outside the door.

[ChrisND]

The 203 tracers are just a visual aid.

[SgtMuhammed]

Maybe. I haven't gotten around to playing with the editor yet. I don't know how the building was sitting in respect to the terrain grid.

[ChrisND]

From my experimentation with the AI plans and the editor I can say almost for certain that there is something stinky with AI behavior and buildings that are "half-on" the tile. My experiment with AI setup and these tiles shows that the AI will often set their troops in the open half of the tile, rather than the building portion of the tile, and they will stay there.

[SgtMuhammed]

I think I have seen that in some other scenarios that have buildings that have a U or Y layout. The AI often seems to occupy the courtyard rather than the buildings.

[Cpl Steiner]

As soon as I get the chance I think I'll make a couple of scenarios using a simple grid-pattern of buildings, one using half-squares and one not, and see how they compare. If we can pin down what the AI likes and what it doesn't like we can at least make playable maps whilst BFC fix the bugs in the AI.