OMG It's coming true!!

[Capital]

:eek:

U.S., Israel shared data on possible nuclear site

Bush was told of North Korean presence in Syria , sources say.

Israel's decision to attack Syria on Sept. 6, bombing a suspected nuclear site set up in apparent collaboration with North Korea, came after Israel shared intelligence with President Bush this summer indicating that North Korean nuclear personnel were in Syria, U.S. government sources said.

The Bush administration has not commented on the Israeli raid or the underlying intelligence. Although the administration was deeply troubled by Israel's assertion that North Korea was assisting the nuclear ambitions of a country closely linked with Iran, sources said, the White House opted against an immediate response because of concerns it would undermine long-running negotiations aimed at persuading North Korea to abandon its nuclear program.

Ultimately, however, the United States is believed to have provided Israel with some corroboration of the original intelligence before Israel proceeded with the raid, which hit the Syrian facility in the dead of night to minimize possible casualties, the sources said....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20899492/

[Sgt Joch]

there is already a thread about this in the general forum, which also includes discussion on whether Syria is working on "dirty bombs".

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=022646

[Runyan99]

I thought we were going to go to war with Iran...

[Hertston]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

I thought we were going to go to war with Iran...

That's next month...

[athkatla]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

I thought we were going to go to war with Iran...

I thought this was a game forum. :eek:

[sonar]

I've always thought the choice of theatre for CMSF was at best, a little near to the knuckle, in respect to whats happening in Iraq, yes it's supposed to be Syria but it mirrors too closely the war in Iraq in all but name and at worse, it's insensitve and in bad taste. Apart form checking out the demo to see the new system, I don't feel comfortable playing titles like this. Anyone else have misgivings about the subject matter ?

[Juergen2SSDR]

Absolutely not.

[PrezCartman]

Sonar,

It's a game, you are playing a fantasy, if you can't separate it from reality perhaps you need to reexamine your grip on the real world. I'm not trying to be a smart ass but I also hear people saying in the earlier CM games, well I only ever played as the Allies because I don't like the thought of killing Americans or Brits. It is a simulation and entertainment. More importantly the campaign is nowhere close to Iraq at least in terms of what it has become, now the early stages of OIF there would be some parallels. However, CMSF does not simulate the counter-insurgency war of today. Yes mission creators can make missions that are close, but you can hardly hold the developers responsible for the ways that customers choose to use their product.

[Renaud]

CMSF was clearly designed to robustly model asymmetrical warfare and counterinsurgency work exactly as it is found in Iraq this minute. A review of the syrian uncon units and victory conditions reveals that in about 5 seconds. IED's, VIBEDs, spys, triggermen, guerrila fighters, bomb detonators, abstracted civilian population, modeling of unconventional victory conditions, what more do you want...the setting is virtually indistinguishable from Iraq. Hardly a fantasy environment.

[KNac]

Seriously, do you give a rat's ass about that!?!

I can play games and that does not have effect on reality, also I don't suffer any stupid psycologic effect even if it does resemble reality.

Am I human? I guess not. Overeaction is common in nowadays society I guess. Saying the game is "insensitive and in bad taste" is what remained to be seen about the game lol.

[Hev]

I realy hate arguments like this, its people that cant seperate fiction from reality that realy cause problems for the games industry.

People like Jack Thompson, who makes some big waves about our beloved pastime, can only do so because of people that cant seperate the entertainment from real life.

Get a grip, you dont complain when authors write books about "possible future conflict" or about "Horrific murders and unwanten destruction"

And as a parting note, you dont even complain when your own country continues to be the worlds largest polluter of the planet, therby speeding up the destruction of the very plannet on which we live!

Lets try not to give all those nutters out there more ammo as to why games are the spawn of the devil.......

PLEASE

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[Hev]

Um, Ancient Greeks?

[Kieme(ITA)]

Hittites, my two cents...

[sonar]

Having the opinion that this game is in bad taste has nothing at all to do with being able to separate fiction from reality. It's about sensitivity to other people's feelings. Would anyone want to play a game called " Auschwitz - Kommandant", "Darfur Rebel" or perhaps "Colombine" Or "9/11 Escape from twin towers"? It is my opinion that a game that closely resembles an ongoing conflict, is in danger of appearing insensitve and being in bad taste. If you can't see why some people may be of that opinion, then maybe it's down to your own insenitivity and shaky grip on Reality not mine. Cheers.

[Sitting Duck]

Originally posted by sonar:

Having the opinion that this game is in bad taste has nothing at all to do with being able to separate fiction from reality. It's about sensitivity to other people's feelings. Would anyone want to play a game called " Auschwitz - Kommandant", "Darfur Rebel" or perhaps "Colombine" Or "9/11 Escape from twin towers"? It is my opinion that a game that closely resembles an ongoing conflict, is in danger of appearing insensitve and being in bad taste. If you can't see why some people may be of that opinion, then maybe it's down to your own insenitivity and shaky grip on Reality not mine. Cheers.

I think you've made a good point.

[Hev]

People, its you that has missed the point, you'll sit around your tv and watch films and tv shows that mirror real life very closely, and tread some very dodgy ground with regards to how close to home some of these shows/films come.

Untill you're campaigning about all those other forms of media that "apper insensitive" you should keep quiet.

And as for those imaginary games you cited, being an open minded person i would happily play them ( "columbine" in particular is it does indeed exist as a game ) if they were actualy trying to achieve something senseable. Ie a near future combat simulation in a beleivable situation!

[Elmar Bijlsma]

This Syria thing is too insensitive, I will not play it!

*moves Waffen SS across the steppes of Russia*

[KNac]

I wouldn't play them, cause these would boring. But nothing more. If I play as the waffen SS in a wargame it does not mean I'm a nazi, and no, I don't care playing KG Peiper in bulge wargames. Jesus.

Yes I'm insensitive cause I can play a GAME and separate it for reality.

edit: yes, the people enjoys playing ancient civilization games, which used to be brutal, and i don't see them very worried about it.

and no, there is no difference these people used to be humans just like now. stuff happens and playing or not a game is not gonna change it or make you anymore complice.

[ September 22, 2007, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: KNac ]

[sonar]

Hev said. "Get a grip, you dont complain when authors write books about "possible future conflict" or about "Horrific murders and unwanten destruction"

Q. How do you know what I read or think.

A. You don't.

Hev said. "you dont even complain when your own country continues to be the worlds largest polluter of the planet, therby speeding up the destruction of the very plannet on which we live!"

Hev,I live in Scotland, that's in the U.K. so unless you mean Bagpipe music,I'd like to see where you get this information lol.

Hev said "you'll sit around your tv and watch films and tv shows that mirror real life very closely, and tread some very dodgy ground with regards to how close to home some of these shows/films come.

Untill you're campaigning about all those other forms of media that "apper insensitive" you should keep quiet"

Q. Once again, how do you know what I read,watch,think or do.

A. Once again, YOU DON'T.

Hev said " And as for those imaginary games you cited, being an open minded person i would happily play them"

All I can say to that is, once again maybe it's down to your own insenitivity and shaky grip on Reality not mine. Cheers

[Calvin]

I have to support Sonar on this one.

Although I can play CMSF, I do think about the real life war going on right now in the same region. This game doesn't quite reach my threshold for being too close to reality for me to play. A personal choice.

However, there was/is a tank sim called "Balkans in Flames" put out by a Russian outfit in which the player takes on the role of a Serbian tanker.

No thanks. That would be like a simulation of the SS Death's Head division in Russia. Way past my comfort level.

My point, for all of you clobbering Sonar, is that I think he raises an important question, and I agree with him that it ought to be asked--- that all of us ought to ask ourselves.

And a man can be so damn open minded that things go in and fly right out again. Including one's brain.

[Cpl Steiner]

This game is quite capable of being in bad taste. One of the first things I did when experimenting with the scenario editor was create a tiny scenario in which a single Humvee driving along a road is attacked by an IED. The scenario was just for me to learn about AI plans, to see if I could get the AI to move the vehicle along the road when playing as Red force, or see if the AI would detonate the IED when playing as Blue force. In those terms it was a great success but I decided not to make it available to fellow CM:SF players because it was in very bad taste indeed. The scenario was so like an Iraqi insurgent video it makes me ashamed just thinking about it!

So yes, I would agree that there is plenty of bad taste to be had from CM:SF if you put your mind to it. You just have to resist the temptation to simulate the latest horrific headlines from Iraq.

[Abbott]

Originally posted by sonar:

It's about sensitivity to other people's feelings.

You got me there; I am not sensitive to your feelings. Maybe you ought to try the Rainbow forum?

[Lethaface]

Sonar, I think this is not the right forum for you to spread these thoughts. Your first post was a normal question... After that U turn to some activist style of posts...

I, like most others here (I THINK ) , do play this game. I enjoy it too, to detonate a nice roadbom next to one of them yankee vehicles and see it blow up in a BIG BOOM ... I too, do enjoy placing a Javelin on one of those bearded terrorists heads.... If any1 feels upset i like to do this, its THEIR problem. If other people do things i dont like, but dont harm other persons, I usually just dont even look that way... Maybe a good piece of advise for you?

I also feel lucky to live in a country without war, and will probably never join any army unless my country would be invaded...

Q: Do I have a reason why I play games in which acts take place that would be less apprecitable to witness from first hand?

A: thats non of your business.

I do play them, I enjoy them, end of story... If u dont enjoy them, why bother others that do? Im not saying u should play them, please dont tell me what I shouldn't do...

(deleting some lines that cross a thin red line)...

Q: Do I know what Sonar does in his life?

A: No

Q: Do I want to know what Sonar does in his life?

A: Not particularly, no

Q: Does Sonar have a point about some people possibly being offended by this game

A: Yes

Q: Since I own and play this game, will I now lay it down?

A: No

Q: Net result of Sonar Propaganda

A: ZERO

Q: What is Sonar doing on a forum where people discuss a game they like, but which Sonar doesnt.

A: ???

Just busting your balls here, hehehe

Sonar, enjoy the game

[rammer4250]

Originally posted by sonar:

Having the opinion that this game is in bad taste has nothing at all to do with being able to separate fiction from reality. It's about sensitivity to other people's feelings. Would anyone want to play a game called " Auschwitz - Kommandant", "Darfur Rebel" or perhaps "Colombine" Or "9/11 Escape from twin towers"? It is my opinion that a game that closely resembles an ongoing conflict, is in danger of appearing insensitve and being in bad taste. If you can't see why some people may be of that opinion, then maybe it's down to your own insenitivity and shaky grip on Reality not mine. Cheers.

Wait a minute, doesn't Akmaddinmamboob play those games already?