Andreas Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Steve, Charles Any update on the situation with the Mac OS for the projected release would be useful. With the impending change of chips, will you still be releasing an OS X version of the first version of CMx2, or will you go straight for the Mac Intel version? Thanks a lot in advance Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I might have to do a search, but sometime in July I asked Steve this question, and he said they weren't sure yet. He said that since the new game is being made on PCs this time they can wait till the very end of development to make that decision. I'd say that with the Intel chips over a year away, from the relase of CMX2, if early 2006 like they say is true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 July is a long time ago. It will be a difficult decision for BFC I guess, since they have to judge whether their old Mac customers will buy the game if it is OS X. So it relates to the stock of older machines that will be around compared to the build-up of newer ones. I would have thought that if it is not too much effort it will make commercial sense to publish for OS X, since not everybody will ditch the system, and it will be around for years. It might be interesting to get an indication on who plans to keep an OS X machine for the foreseeable future, and who would purchase CMx2 for OS X. Depending on the time between publishing modules, it could also become an issue of backwards compatibility. So let me start - I would purchase an OS X version of CMx2, and would not mind buying another game when I switch to PC or Intel-based Mac at a later stage. So essentially BFC would generate two sales from me if they start publishing OS X and then went to Intel-based Mac. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 My understanding of the situation is that as long BFC release CMx2 for Mac as a universal binary application it'll then run on both Macintosh computers using PowerPC or Intel® microprocessors. IIRC Initially the new Macintels will be destined first to speed up laptops, macminis etc. for next year then by the end of 2007 the whole range. Apple Intel move 'could confuse' Even so I'll be looking at upgrade to a new machine as my current G4 is limited by 2x AGP to more capable graphics cards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I'm a trifle bewidered here. Is it a certainty that the Intel-based machines will not be compatible with OS X (this was in response to Andreas)? In any event, whether that is the case or not, I can see that a lot of Mac users will have an OS X machine around for the foreseeable future as the alternative would be a massive, sudden upgrade for their entire software suite. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Yup, I'm looking to get a Dual 2Ghz G5 in the fall, if I can. I'd like to get one among the last of the last Pre-Intel chips. I would bet on the new Chips being call G6 or maybe just an entire different line I suppose. Could call them IMs (Intel Macs) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: I'm a trifle bewidered here. Is it a certainty that the Intel-based machines will not be compatible with OS X (this was in response to Andreas)? In any event, whether that is the case or not, I can see that a lot of Mac users will have an OS X machine around for the foreseeable future as the alternative would be a massive, sudden upgrade for their entire software suite. Michael Michael, No. What I think you’ll find is that OS X is already a “universal binary” (as seen by it running on a Pentium at WWDC earlier this year). So whether you new Mac is G5 equipped or Intel (with the “Intel inside” sticker removed) it will still run OS X. The issue is, will CMx2 be a universal binary to run on either platform and I guess the other problem maybe if the two types of machines use different video cards? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 Okay, let me clarify this. I have no idea if they will be compatible, but given the nature of the software we talk about (niche 3-D application), I would not bet any time or money on them being compatible for my product if I was the developer, especially given Apple's history in this respect. Secondly, if BFC decides to go for the universal-binary (so that is what it's called?) route, it will not be backwards compatible. But OTOH, it is not at all clear to me if all Intel machines will be delivered with OSX, or whether you have to purchase it additionally as the owner of a new rig. If so, would you do that just to play CMx2? How annoying would that be if you have to restart into another OS just to play the game - oh wait, I know... So technical compatibility is not the issue as I can see it. The question is whether BFC believes that the existing population of OS X users warrants the effort to produce an OS X product, or whether that is not the case, and they should go for the UB market, which may mean not having a Mac product at all, initially. In which case I would have to buy a PC, but that's really besides the point. Total speculation, all of this at this stage, hence the question. No need to answer it now, but I thought there is no harm in asking, seeing that we already have at least three spam threads on this forum. This one is hardly any worse. All the best Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Take a look at this thread: Originally posted by Battlefront.com: For Battlefront things are a little less clear as to what we will do for Mac support. Due to mysterious probelms with the direction of compilers (now partially explained by the chip switch) we decided to code for the PC first and wait for things to shake out before moving the code over to the Mac. Now with this chip announcement the decision we made some months ago is reinforced in a positive way. The port to the Mac won't take long (4 weeks?) so it doesn't hurt us to hold off until the last minute, so to speak. By the time we do start the port hopefully everything will settled down and we can make the RIGHT decisiosns this time. As you recall, it was Apple's unclear vision and conlficting information about OSX that is the reason why CMx1 doesn't run on OSX. We are facing an equally uncertain time from Apple about yet another major technology shift. We've been burned before (more than once) by these transitions so the longer we wait the better it is for everybody. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 Thanks - one thing I wanted to avoid was bumping that thread in the wrong forum. All the best Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Originally posted by Andreas: Secondly, if BFC decides to go for the universal-binary (so that is what it's called?) route, it will not be backwards compatible. :confused: I thought the Universal Binaries would run in OS X regardless of platform? I.e. it shouldn't matter if the hardware is G4/G5 or Intel, as long as the appropriate version of Mac OS X is running. Or did I misinterpret "backwards compatible"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 Obviously, I am not that well-versed in compatibility questions. Thanks for setting me right. The two glasses of Brouilly won't have helped either. I blame it on posting under the influence... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Another quote from the thread linked above: Originally posted by Battlefront.com: No, we aren't saying anything of the sort. What we are saying is that there is currently no simultaneous cross platform development. We do hope to release both versions at the same time, but that largely depends on how quickly things sort themselves out. We're pretty confident that by the time we get to "make or break" time on porting that the development stuff will be all set and we can just bull on ahead without getting burned. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I think this question falls more with the graphics card support/drivers issues. Will the Intel chips support the same drivers/cards? That may be where the trouble lies if CMX2 is a Universal Binaries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Aug 8 '05 Topic: New dual mac/pc ATI graphics card for ?CMX? ATI seem to be setting a trend by releasing a card that is supported for both PC and Mac 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 That maybe so, but that does not solve the issue of how the OpenGL Drivers are read by the different chips. Also if you have a G5 or whatever they are going to call the Intel Macs, why would you waste your money on a PCI Graphics card? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Perhaps the Intel logic boards will take PCI - who knows? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Its not so much of whether they will take PCI cards, both Intel PCs and G5 Macs have PCI slots, but if you can have a AGP card, which runs at 8x why would you want a slow 66hz PCI card? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzTwt Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Being the happy owner of a lovely dual-processor, loads of GHz, super powerful G5, I can't wait to see CMx2 running at the speed of light on my Mac... So I guess that's a yes - "I'll buy that for a dollar" (™Robocop...) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Yeah, sounds like the G5 will be needed, since Steve made this comment, "If you have a system bought within the last year, and it was a decent system, I'd guess that you'd meet the minimum specs." (Quote from post on System specs). I'm looking at some of the newer G5s, and it sounds like the Dual 2Ghz G5 with the ATI Radeon 9650 (256MB VRAM) could make the cut. Now the question is, will CMx2 take advantage of Dual CPUs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Originally posted by gibsonm: What I think you’ll find is that OS X is already a “universal binary” (as seen by it running on a Pentium at WWDC earlier this year). So whether you new Mac is G5 equipped or Intel (with the “Intel inside” sticker removed) it will still run OS X.Thanks, gibs. I remember now reading about that and it was what was stirring around in the back of my mind and prompting my question. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Nothing new to report. We still want to do a MacOS X version, but we are still planning on waiting until the last minute to decide if we will. I would expect that at the very worst CMx2's first game will be for PC only initially with a MacOS version to follow up soon after. The decision, though, is yet to be made and has nothing to do with our desire to support the Mac (I am typing this on a Mac, afterall), only the desire to not get ourselves burned like the last time. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 oh The Mac faithful have just lost all hope..... -tom w [ August 25, 2005, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Its Apples inablity to stick with anything long term that seems to stab CM users time and time again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucero1148 Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 JUst to clarify the ATI dual Mac/PC PCI card question. This card is for old macs (g4's towers only) using AGP 4X or AGP8X card slots. It is not for insertion in the PCI slot. the 9600 chip in this card also isn't the greatest or the latyest chip being used for ATI's current lineup of Mac or PC video cards. It isn't capable of running Doom 3 but should be alright for CMX2. As for Os X and it's portability to whatever upcoming Intel chip Apple finally decides on (Yonah for portables) It shouldn't make that much of a difference should it? the new chips coming out will also be 64 bit processors and OS X for the most part is still using 32 bit instructions from what I understand. Maybe with the new chip coming Apple will make the entire OS X a pure 64 bit native code and if that's so wouldn't it be a given that all supporting software will also have to upgrade. Just speculating there. Patrick 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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