Firing Arcs and Fire distribution

[mrbadexample]

One of the thing that has always bugged me was the impossibility of applying an infantry squad's fire to more than one target! It doesn't make much sense that every man in a unit would fire at one of two squads charging their position ... they would probably fire at both in an attempt to stave off death Since Firing Arcs work so well how about Target Fire Distribution %'s ? It would be so easy since CM models firepower in such a simple way. Couldn't an infantry squad apply say 10% to one target, 50% to another, 40% to another - etc? Also - I like the aquad based system - no need to model 1 to 1, especially when you can split squads.

[juan_gigante]

ditto, expect on the "I don't like 1:1" bit.

[mrbadexample]

To each his own but I think that 1:1 representation is really going to blow out a good bunch of people who don't have Graphics cards. Of course I could be wrong ! If there is a Low and High Graphics mode that would solve both problems but I think that sort of thing gets expensive to develop.

[flamingknives]

Quite possibly with 1:1 modelling, the 'two charging squads' may be treated as one attacking force and engaged as such.

Engaging multiple targets is more of a problem than it might first appear. Engaging any target on direction was tricky for most of the citizen soldiers fighting in WWII.

AI-controlled dispersed fire might be a good one though, and easier with 1:1 modelling.

[mrbadexample]

Very true but individual soldiers no doubt fired out of self defense often - even if they broke fire discipline to do so. I was thinking of using the simple numerical system, broken down into chunks representing weaponry, i.e. if a MG is worth 20 points and a squad has a MG and two rifleman (each worth say 5 points) than you could break down the available fire dispersion into 20-5-5 (three attacks/lines of fire). So when a target is engaged with all firepower available it would read 30 points on the line. If you wanted to break it up into 3 attacks you could have 3 lines, two with a 5 firepower rating and one with a 20 - this would maintain the realism of 1:1 soldiers without the graphical problems of putting 12 miniature men in a small space.

[flamingknives]

Smells of micro-managing.

Let your squad leaders direct fire like that.

[Battlefront.com]

Definately micromangement

With 1:1 Soldiers fire individually. They can engage multiple targets, though they will tend to concentrate on one target in particular. This is SOP. The rapid changing of targets, when overwhelmed with potential trouble, was largely fixed in CMBB and can be futher tweaked in CMx2. Grazing fire should be able to be more detailed now than CMBB/AK, but am not sure.

Steve

[Zalgiris 1410]

So teams in squads all fire at one sigle target then even if they are treated as teams of the squad, or else the teams only operate as such with their own fire targets when the squad is split. BTW though, I've always thought that there ought to be some kind of fire spread as more realistic say against a horde for example or for representing different experenced troops in how they perform employing it.

[Tero]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Definately micromangement

With 1:1 Soldiers fire individually. They can engage multiple targets, though they will tend to concentrate on one target in particular. This is SOP.

It is not as much SOP, as it is human nature.

IRL firing sectors for the individuals were/are assigned to prevent overkill. Do you plan on implementing user defineable firing arcs for individuals within the team/half squad ?

[Battlefront.com]

Do you plan on implementing user defineable firing arcs for individuals within the team/half squad ?

Good God NO

There is no player control over anything individuals do. The only way we will change that is if we make a Platoon level game, which we currently have no plans to do.

Steve

[mrbadexample]

Well - I think it's just silly to have 12 men firing at a single target, especially if it's less of a threat. Couldn't the default engagement SOP easily be left as is but with the potential for fire splitting? A squad leader with command of a Light MG and four rifleman couldn't give the order to lay down covering fire with the mg on one flank while the rifleman engaged other targets that were moving/exposed/charging? I don't think it's micromanagement, but it is more realistic with few or no drawbacks. The same could be done with Tanks/AFV's. Many times I have read accounts of the Tank driver engaging infantry with the hull mounted MG while the Commander directed fire from the Main gun and/or coaxial MG. Why not be able to direct this too?

[mrbadexample]

Oh well - should have read the sticky first - guess you guys have already finished with this stuff! Fuggedaboutit

[Zalgiris 1410]

Originally posted by mrbadexample:

Well - I think it's just silly to have 12 men firing at a single target, especially if it's less of a threat. Couldn't the default engagement SOP easily be left as is but with the potential for fire splitting? A squad leader with command of a Light MG and four rifleman couldn't give the order to lay down covering fire with the mg on one flank while the rifleman engaged other targets that were moving/exposed/charging? I don't think it's micromanagement, but it is more realistic with few or no drawbacks.

I agree with this and my suggestion is either to give squads a multiable targeting feature or to have the option of some kind of coned out area fire arc rather than the pin pointed lined area fire as currently in CMx1.

The same could be done with Tanks/AFV's. Many times I have read accounts of the Tank driver engaging infantry with the hull mounted MG while the Commander directed fire from the Main gun and/or coaxial MG. Why not be able to direct this too?

IME in CM tank hull MGs fire at enemy troops of their own accord already independent of where the main tank turrett gun is targeting, to be sure I would like to somehow have squad elements do a similar fire spread thing themselves in CMx2.

[ August 28, 2005, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

[SuomiKp]

Just dont make the firing arc system like it is in Eric Young's Squad Assault

[mav1]

There is no way of allowing troops to fire in an large target area, blindly hoping to hit a target or offering covering fire against known but unseen targets. For example you might know that a antitank rifleman is hiding in scattered trees. But you can't do sweeping arc covering fire to put him off from firing at your tanks. Its the same with guns and mortars, you might want to do a sweep of fire over an area insted of firing at one spot throughout the minute of the turn.

[SgtMuhammed]

You can area fire now, just target a point on the battle field rather than a unit.

Squads should never be firing at the same target. Even during movement everyone in the squad is assigned a sector and so every squad would have a fan rather than a point as its area of fire. Firing at targets outside one's sector often is impossible because the rest of the squad often can't see what everyone else sees without moving out of position, a definite no-no.

[MikeyD]

Of course your unit is not 'really' firing at only one target. That single enemy squad is supposedly made up of nine separate soldiers including a lmg man. In the right circumstances your squad can reduce his squad from 9 healthy - 0 wounded to 2 healthy - 7 wounded in the blink of an eye!

Another thing about multiple targetting. I'd swear I've seen, when multiple units stumble on an enemy squad in dense woods, more than one of my units taking casualties simultaneously. Maybe its just my imagination.

We're sorta used to CMx1's abstractions. I wonder if some of us may have a problem taking what we see see on screen in CMx2 too literally. Pardoxically, the more 'realistic' the game gets the more the rough edges of the game engine may poke out at odd angles.

[mav1]

Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq):

You can area fire now, just target a point on the battle field rather than a unit.

Squads should never be firing at the same target. Even during movement everyone in the squad is assigned a sector and so every squad would have a fan rather than a point as its area of fire. Firing at targets outside one's sector often is impossible because the rest of the squad often can't see what everyone else sees without moving out of position, a definite no-no.

Yes I know you can area fire.

But is the squad only firing in that small section that you have selected as your area fire. Rather than a broad sweep of a larger area. Like I gave the example of the anti tank rifleman. Unless you have several units firing area targets you wont supress the anti tank rifle team. One unit won't suppress an unseen unit anti tank rifle with area fire targetting, unless you now were the unit is hiding.

[ July 19, 2006, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: mav1 ]

[C'Rogers]

Do you plan on implementing user defineable firing arcs for individuals within the team/half squad ?

Good God NO

So many games sequels have been ruined by turning it into a game of micromanagement. Many times developers (and players) seem to forget that more control isn't always better.

Then again lumping BFC in with other mere game developers is borderline insulting .